range accident today !!!!!!

black_ump

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 16, 2007
1,054
0
37
erie,pa 16334
i was at a range with a friend that owns severl machine guns, today we where shooting thompsons and grease guns and bars. well another kid we know came over with his m4 and was sighting in his eotech clone, i was laying on the ground shooting the 325 yard range.

we had another friend recording the thompsons going on as well as the one kid shooting his m4 when all of a sudden i see him shoot and i see this( he is shooting at steel ) think buzzing threw the air and i hear "oh shit". a 223 round bounced back and hit an ex state trooper right in the neck and knocked him to the ground.

fortunitly the round didnt do any damage out side of a scratch and big red mark... kinda makes me afraid to shoot steel plates now ( at close ranges )
 

DRAM40A1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Oct 15, 2007
    1,046
    205
    51
    S E of Dallas,TX.
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Sounds more like a stupid mistake than a range accident. LOL

    Probably the EOtec clones fault.
     

    black_ump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2007
    1,054
    0
    37
    erie,pa 16334
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    iam not sure if that kid put it on youtube yet or not, i will ask him when i see him wensday and get his youtube name so i can see it.

    i know they change those plates out regularly after they get to banged up, but honestly today was the first day i ever shot at plates or with them, they always invite me up for mg shoots but i always tell them no, and i personally didnt shoot any of their guns today just mine at the 325.

    the retired trooper seemes to know his shit but.. again all i know is when i looked up i seen this funny thing wizzing threw the air comming tword me then i hurd the guy scream and i jumped up and that was that

    edit: they where shooting 100 yds
     

    Queequeg

    Door Man
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 16, 2008
    1,657
    15
    62
    Florida, Hillsborough county
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    That must be why rifle rounds (or slugs and buck shot out of the shotguns) fired at the steel silhouettes in my club's two gun matches are an automatic DQ!
    laugh.gif


    They rotate every month from shotgun/ pistol to rifle/ pistol matches but rifle on steel is a big no no!

    The bird shot routinely sprays back at us behind the line and the occasional pistol round as well.
     

    High Binder

    Resident Tribologist
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 18, 2008
    502
    18
    Occupied Colorado
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Been there, done that. I've had too many rounds come back at me. everything from .450, shot, and .223. Scary stuff, was the guy OK?
     

    rashgunner

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2006
    11
    0
    Tennessee
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    The condition of the face of the steel plate can have a negative effect on safety too. Was the shooter shooting full auto and was the target struck mulitple times. This could have changed the angle of the target?
     

    akabaron

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 16, 2007
    99
    0
    55
    Tempe AZ
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Not just rifle rounds, know a guy who was shooting 9mm at steel and one bounced back and imbedded in his chin. I have shot a lot of steel and have yet to have one come back. I do notice if shot with a .22 all of the bullets flatten out and just lay in front of the plates
     

    spaniel

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 26, 2006
    400
    215
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    100 is just too close for still with high power.
     

    black_ump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2007
    1,054
    0
    37
    erie,pa 16334
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    ya the guy was ok suprisingly their was n blood just a red welt... they where shooting a semi auto m4 but all day where shooting at 100 with the tommy on full auto...

    this is what drives me to get a plate carrier just in case
     

    black_ump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2007
    1,054
    0
    37
    erie,pa 16334
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, there are no accidents where firearms are involved. It is pure, intolerable negligence. State it as it is and don't sugar coat it </div></div>

    how do you figure ?
     

    black_ump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2007
    1,054
    0
    37
    erie,pa 16334
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    the guy was also telling me how divits and various indentations can have rounds bounce back, but they where useing a brand new plate so

    needless to say the kid obviously didnt mean it thus i personally feel it was an accident
     

    Downzero

    -
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 15, 2006
    2,493
    183
    NM
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Because you should have never been shooting at steel that close with a rifle.
     

    GardDog

    LT
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 16, 2009
    2,203
    0
    49
    New Orleans
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    That's why car crashes aren't referred to as "accidents" anymore. Some error in driver input caused the crash. Similarly, when someone shooting steel with a .223 at 100 yards gets rebound issues, it isn't an accident.
     

    Switchblade

    muf kin poser
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Anytime a firearm discharges a round it is an intentional thing. If it is not, then negligence is the issue. IF the target is not far enough away to safely shoot without ricochet, then again, negligence or if you like, pure stupidity are the fault. There are no accidents where firearms are concerned but only negligence or stupidity. Ignorance is never an excuse.
     

    RJW

    Old Retarded Top
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2004
    567
    4
    Indiana
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Negligence: The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community.
     

    black_ump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2007
    1,054
    0
    37
    erie,pa 16334
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    i see your point..... dont get me wrong, how ever its not like the guy ment for that to happen.

    but again i do see your point
     

    Powder_Burns

    Shoutbox Veteran
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 4, 2009
    1,694
    1,631
    Colorado
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Wouldn't frangible ammo make more sense for shooting steel?
     

    DRAM40A1

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 15, 2007
    1,046
    205
    51
    S E of Dallas,TX.
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    If you shoot steel that close, tilt the top of the plate forward so the rounds deflect downwards. I shot at a plate here at home with 762x54R and had the penetrator whiz back and just over head. I don't do that any more!!!LOL
     

    black_ump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 16, 2007
    1,054
    0
    37
    erie,pa 16334
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you shoot steel that close, tilt the top of the plate forward so the rounds deflect downwards. I shot at a plate here at home with 762x54R and had the penetrator whiz back and just over head. I don't do that any more!!!LOL

    </div></div>


    haha iam glad your ok.. thanks for the tip i will pass it on
     

    Kells81

    Slacker
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 15, 2006
    1,858
    51
    Granbury TX
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    I have been hit in the chest before with a 17 mach II richochet. My friend thought I had done bit the dust on that one. Was shooting paper and best we can figure is it bounced off a rock behind the boards.
     

    dvdt

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 13, 2009
    646
    4
    Dallas,TX
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    We have several steel gongs at my range. They're all at 320ish yards though.

    I took a steel qualification (we have to qualify to take a leak at my club) and we always tilt the steel towards the ground. The top of the target is always tilted closer to the shooter than the bottom of the target. It makes sense. We also were suggested to not shoot FMJ at the steel if at all possible.

    One thing I didn't know, that might be worth pointing out here, is that if you have more than 1 steel target, you need to stagger(sp?) them so they are not on the same parallel. In other words, imagine a line of people and every other person took a step forward. Place the steel target where everyone's feet would be. I had never thought of that until I was told. The RSO/Steel guru told us that as a round disintegrates and the pieces fly in all directions, it won't hit the edge of the steel plate and fire back at you.

    Hopefully that makes sense and was worth reading for someone.

    Glad the guy is OK. Is he going to sue the guy with the m4 ?
     

    500grains

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 20, 2008
    400
    283
    dirt nap
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    At 100 yards the steel plates should be angled toward the ground, I would prefer a 30 degree angle. Second, 100 yds is probably too close.

    I sometimes shoot at a range that has 25 yd steel plates for handguns. They are NOT angled down. I was shooting a .45 with cast lead bullets, and a piece of a cast lead bounced back and hit the range officer in the eyebrow. Still, the range has not angled the plates downward to deflect the bullets to the ground.
     

    mgd45

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 7, 2008
    28
    42
    53
    Ga.
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    All the steel targets I shoot at are either angled down or they hang on chains and can swing under the impact from the round. Never once had any issues with rounds coming back at me......& I shoot them at 100 yards quite frequently....
     

    Shady_Jay

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 3, 2006
    3,073
    4
    46
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    About 5 yeas ago I was shooting a match at Fort Wolters and was working the pits next to Kent Lukas. I don't remember the distance the relay was at but the minimum distance we shot was 300 yards. He ran his target up and I heard what sounded like huge bumble bee zip through the air and then a loud smack sound. Kent yelped and jumped off his stand. The .308 round bounced out of the impact berm and hit him in the gut. It didn't break skin but put a perfect key-hole bullet burn mark on him. It was crazy. Wish I took a picture of it.

    When they call for safety glasses and a brimmed hat in the pits, you better damn well wear it. You just never know.
     

    ALShooter

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 18, 2007
    247
    61
    B'ham, AL
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DEATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I do notice if shot with a .22 all of the bullets flatten out and just lay in front of the plates </div></div>

    A .22 off a steel torso target got me in the side one time. I dont shoot steel unless its a long ass way off now.
    eek.gif
     

    BountyHunter

    Sergeant
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 7, 2003
    453
    19
    69
    Wilmington NC
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Rounds off steel or other objects will richocet to include straight back.

    We had 3 rounds come back across the firing line of a MG range and go into a warehouse 300 yds behind the firing line. Closest popup target (plastic) was 300meters. So Sh-t happens with richocets.

    I took a 45 ACP round back in the chest while testing bulletproof door sections one time years ago. Knocked me to the ground and one hell of a bruise and welt.

    BH
     

    Grump

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 23, 2008
    1,221
    10
    61
    So. Utah
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    IIRC, the NRA puts the minimum for steel at 40 yards for smallbore. They *used* to do handgun smallbore silhouette at 25 meters, but decided there was way to much splashback. Concerns about non-shooters not having eye protection could have partially driven the decision.

    .223 at 100 has me puzzled, since they ALL melt on impact that close, IME. At 200 all I ever see are jacket fragments. Can't argue with what actually happened, though.
     

    sormi

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 14, 2006
    92
    0
    64
    Austin Tx.
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    I don't see how those guys shooting cowboy matches don't get hurt or killed more often. I went and watche a match once and had two rounds wizz by. I had enough. My exbrother in law got hit in the leg with lead. It stung.. Did not penetrate his jeans.
     

    Ol' RD

    Grouchy Old Curmudgeon
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 30, 2008
    58
    56
    Shelby County Alabama
    Re: range accident today !!!!!!

    Well Guys, if ever your in Long Beach Calif. Don't shoot at the Long Beach Police Range. I've not shot there in over twenty years but when I was, I was hit there so many times I quit counting, on the line, in the pit, it didn't matter. It's funny the expression on a guys face when you walk up to him and hand him a round he just fired. That was pistols only, no rifles. Never had any real damage done but stingers happened all the time.