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Read it...and weep!

Sharpsman

Sharpsman

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 15, 2010
432
1
84
Rayville, La.
Took this off another site earlier and apparently it's NOT BULL-SCHITT!!

"I just spoke with the "customer service" people at Bruno's... I asked about some powder, namely H4350, H4831SC, H1000 and VV N540. His reply was to the effect that NO H4350 or H1000 till some time NEXT YEAR. Then he stated that the Vhit plant is to either be sold OR simply shut down. They quit taking orders June 12, 2013 and will fill those orders thru next year. If someone does not buy the plant, it shuts down. He then stated that by doing that, the "pressure" on Hodgdon powders will skyrocket, making a bad situation even worse! He expects H4831SC to be in by next month, however, with the anticipated shipment he will not even be able to fill his existing back orders. We are in trouble folks!"
 
honestly, why the f#ck would anyone that owns one of these plants shut it down?? demand is at an all time high.... what, is there a shortage on the raw ingredients or what? shessshhh. no logic to this at all.

Sharpsman said:
Took this off another site earlier and apparently it's NOT BULL-SCHITT!!

"I just spoke with the "customer service" people at Bruno's... I asked about some powder, namely H4350, H4831SC, H1000 and VV N540. His reply was to the effect that NO H4350 or H1000 till some time NEXT YEAR. Then he stated that the Vhit plant is to either be sold OR simply shut down. They quit taking orders June 12, 2013 and will fill those orders thru next year. If someone does not buy the plant, it shuts down. He then stated that by doing that, the "pressure" on Hodgdon powders will skyrocket, making a bad situation even worse! He expects H4831SC to be in by next month, however, with the anticipated shipment he will not even be able to fill his existing back orders. We are in trouble folks!"
Click to expand...
 
A friend and gunshop owner confirmed to me today that they would not be getting any H4350 or CFE223 and possibly Varget until sometime next year. They had a shipment of varget two weeks ago and were told to not expect any more this year. However they do seem to have a good supply of most other powders but they have the 1lb/day rule that I don't like but it does allow more people to get a chance at it
 
Is that just more Gunshop Rumor ? especially on ViHt plant ?

A couple days ago @ a Gunshop he owner spouted . The reason there is No Rimfire .22LR to be found in Retail sales .
( and he was serious) . quote ..." The the US military has been buying it all .22 rimfire up for training, then destroying it " .
.
 
Well...here in the USA...government regulation such as OBAMACARE can make plans for expansion totally out of the question! I'm quite certain that this could be some of the problem. If a firm has 50 employees it falls under the umbrella of OBAMACARE and could, for all practical purposes provide quite a bit of disincentive for maintaining a business! Hellsfire...we're losing doctors by the droves and this same situation is causing firms to reduce their workforces and hire those that want just part-time employment thereby eliminating cost of SS tax, insurance and any other benefit requirements previously met. IMO....just one more step toward TOTAL SOCIALISM!!
 
I'd take anything Bruno says with a grain of salt. They want their customers to start in a panic so they can justify charging their gouge prices.
 
bodywerks said:
I'd take anything Bruno says with a grain of salt. They want their customers to start in a panic so they can justify charging their gouge prices.
Click to expand...

OK! If you say so....but here's the fact:

EURENCO Press Release about Vihtavuori Oy
In June 2012, EURENCO (France), the mother company of EURENCO Vihtavuori Oy
announced its willingness to divest from its operations in Finland, considering the deteriorated economical situation of the subsidiary and the insufficient prospects of the local defence market.

Since Patria confirmed it is not interested in buying back the Vihtavuori plant, EURENCO is now starting a co-operation negotiation to define a downsizing process that may ultimately result in stopping the production of nitrocellulose and propellant in Vihtavuori.

The detailed planning of the process will be known after negotiations with all relevant unions and with existing customers, since EURENCO has also to enter into discussions with its customers to inform about the situation and to define solutions to mitigate the consequences of this possible downsizing.

During the coming months, EURENCO will also remain open to enter into negotiation with any company interested in acquiring EURENCO Vihtavuori Oy.

Created in January 2004, EURENCO (European Energetics Corporation) is owned by
GROUPE SNPE. EURENCO has annual sales exceeding 200 Million €, more than 1000
employees, 5 modern production plants in Belgium (Clermont), Finland (Vihtavuori), France (Bergerac, Sorgues) and Sweden (Karlskoga), plus one commercial desk in Washington and one distribution company in Houston (USA). EURENCO Vihtavuori Oy has annual sales of 12 MEUR and about 120 employees.
 
So, a year ago they were getting out of the market. SO you don't think that THIS year, they may have rethought that?
 
It doesn't say that.

announced its willingness to divest from its operations in Finland, considering the deteriorated economical situation of the subsidiary and the insufficient prospects of the local defence market.
Click to expand...

Companies change their minds
 
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I view this as a reason to not buy any more vv powder. No sense in working up a load with a powder I may not be able to buy again, and if I already had a load I liked I may as well get used to something else.
 
I have done a lot of business with Bruno's over the past few years, but am re-thinking doing any more with them. I feel that they are taking advantage of the current situation!!! Their prices on reloading supplies is out of line!!! They are going the way of Cheaper Than Dirt.
 
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the June dates in question are one year apart? One states 2012... the other 2013. Most likely both wrong!
 
I'm confused. I thought the Vihtavuori plant was in Finland while H4350 is produced in Australia....


Edit: Email dispatched to Hodgdon. Let's kill this rumor before it gets any worse.
 
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I think Phoenix, Arizona is one of the worst as far as rumors and keeping prices inflated. Well for one thing you have 3-4 million people packed into the valley and there are few "truth zones" and a lot of B/S! The standard semi auto ak variant and 500 rounds was selling at $1800 or more a few weeks ago. Stupid people never shot a round in their life were buying ammo, literally anything to have a trade fodder in case of..... IN CASE OF WHAT!? With nothing to make bang you are going to trade it to who for what? Cigarettes? Cabelas and Bass Pro are often stripped, gun show prices are through the roof. Primers are a joke, some of these folks do anything they can to justify $5-$10 or more per 100. I saw factory box "Eagle" 9mm for $50.00 a box! People were limited to one box of .223 per day, period. There are still no .22 cal to be found.

I take Phoenix and the valley with a grain of salt. I ain't real fond of Bruno's neither. They aren't my friend. They aren't quite as disgusting as "Cheaper than Dirt" but I don't like them. There I said it. PRICES CALL BRUNOS! They will be out of stock for months and still advertise the product.
 
Anyone tried to contact VV factory? They must have someone speaking English there; I will check out their Website and phone #.
 
I sent this email a few minutes ago, let's see if we receive an answer. I anyone has a better idea on how to contact them, please do so, or if you have enough $$, then just buy the damn place....if it is really for sale ;)
This is somewhat of a candid question but we will not know if we do not ask.

Actions
12:59 PM
To: [email protected]

Sir, Madam

This is a question from several thousands of American Shooters using Vithavuori products.
Even though we heard, as early as June 2012, that the Vithavuori plant may be for sale, we now hear rumors that the Factory may simply shut down.
Could you provide us with further explanations, regarding the current status and near future of the Vithavuory smokeless powder Factory.
We truly appreciate your help on this matter.
 
redhooker said:
I view this as a reason to not buy any more vv powder. No sense in working up a load with a powder I may not be able to buy again, and if I already had a load I liked I may as well get used to something else.
Click to expand...
I agree with this logic.
 
Beats me why this company is not subject to laws of supply and demand because demand is through the roof....
 
Sounds like they stopped taking orders because they are going to take months to catch up on old orders regardless. They did not want any additional orders that they had to honor a price on now, as it would seem they have some sort of variable hard cost that they can not accurately project. This can be something like a union contract coming due, change in logistical support/contract or even something like their main supplier closing down and having to deal with the 'new guy'. This kind of variable makes it impossible to quote price on something now that you know you will be delivering months to a year from now.

They are biding their time and evaluating whatever affect this variable will have on their business model. If they deem it not worthwhile, I am sure someone will be along to bridge the gap, buy the name and any of the liquidated assets they need to keep this going in some form.

Announcements of evaluation of a business model and potential di-vestation are often times corporate speak for "Don't fuck with us on a contract renewal or you may end up not getting ANYTHING".

That's my .02 on whats going on.
 
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These stories don't always pan out to be true at all. A while back I was scrounging everywhere for Retumbo. I called Hodgdon to see if they might could direct me to some. They checked to see who they had shipped it to last, and gave me a few places to check (most of them I had already checked). On a hunch I called Gamaliel's (one of the places Hodgdon had suggested) just in case the website wasn't accurate. Not only did they not have any, but the lady said they had been told by Hodgdon that there was a problem with the supply of Retumbo from Australia, and not to expect anymore for at least 4 MONTHS. I was depressed, but continued my daily tour of websites. I promise you within a couple of weeks an 8-lb. jug popped up at 3rd Generation, along with about 130 1-lb. jugs. I bought the 8 pounder and posted a notice here to let everyone know about the others.

As for Bruno's, his primer prices are ridiculous. But to be fair, depending on what it is his prices can be competitive. In fact, for .338 300gr. SMKs, his price is lower than almost all of the usual places (and he has them in stock to boot).
 
My local Walmart is overflowing with H1000. The shelf is full and I bet theres more in the back.
 
I've seen shooters reporting AA4350 performing like H4350.
Hodgdon has a chart on their website that compare the temperature stability of H4350 to competitors.
H4350 only increases (according to Hodgdon) 4 FPS from 0 degrees F to 125 degrees F.
The next least temperature sensitive powder is AA4350, at 29 FPS.
Here in SE PA I shoot in temperatures between 20 and 95 degrees so theoretically I would only see 60% or 18 FPS variation.
If it performs like H4350, it seems like a good alternative.

Wideners has 8 pounders in stock.

Might be worth a look.

Joe
 
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Shadow0341 said:
Nice! Wish my walmart was the same haha, wouldn't mind picking up a little more.
Click to expand...

Yeah I didn't ever realize they carried reloading supplies. Been to that gun counter 100 times before I noticed it. Also have some 22 cal 53 gr v-max... almost grabbed a box but I'm not quite set up for 223.

Edit: I have literally no idea how this post ended up in front of the one I'm quoting...
 
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Man, ive never even seen powder in WalMart. I live in Houston though and there are several outlets to find your reloading needs. I know it moves off the shelf quickly but i want to say my local reloading supply place has started to receive 4350 on the regular again. 10ring.com
 
I spoke with Ed at Butch's Reloading on Friday about the Hodgdon Extreme powders that are shipped from Australia. He informed me that there are only two ships that are allowed to have powder as cargo, and one is tied up with the US military/government. Therefore, only one ship is currently in service bringing powder into the United States, along with whatever limit they have as to how much powder they can have on board at one time.
 
There is a mix of truth and fiction in the rumor you forwarded. VihtaVuori is
considering closing down if they can't find a buyer or get subsidies from the
Finnish government. ADI who makes about a third of our smokeless powder had a
fire in one of their dryer buildings. The only powders affected are Clays,
Universal and International. Those three powders will not be available until
sometime next year. However, they are the only ones affected. These are
difficult times but our suppliers are shipping us more powder this year than
last year. If the panic buying would stop in a few months things would be back
to something like normal.

Dave Campbell
Customer Service
Hodgdon Powder Co.
6430 Vista Drive
Shawnee, KS 66218
913-362-9455 Ext. 117
[email protected]
Click to expand...


What do you know, the truth does exist....
 
Also my H1000 is marked 'Made In Australia'. Not sure why a plant in Finland would effect it.
 
Ombré, curious if you've ever heard a reply back from Vihtavuori? Thanks
Ombre noire said:
I sent this email a few minutes ago, let's see if we receive an answer. I anyone has a better idea on how to contact them, please do so, or if you have enough $$, then just buy the damn place....if it is really for sale ;)
This is somewhat of a candid question but we will not know if we do not ask.

Actions
12:59 PM
To: [email protected]

Sir, Madam

This is a question from several thousands of American Shooters using Vithavuori products.
Even though we heard, as early as June 2012, that the Vithavuori plant may be for sale, we now hear rumors that the Factory may simply shut down.
Could you provide us with further explanations, regarding the current status and near future of the Vithavuory smokeless powder Factory.
We truly appreciate your help on this matter.
Click to expand...
 
dave300 said:
Ombré, curious if you've ever heard a reply back from Vihtavuori? Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi Dave
No reply from nammo; this was a shot in the dark but It did not create any reaction. I did not expect much out of it; as I mentioned, this was a candid question. The last rumor I heard was that it would be bought by a sister company and the powder production would keep on going as usual. These are just rumors and should be taken as such; we are sometimes not sure of what is going on in our own country, so trying to figure out what is going on in Finland, with a French owned company, can be somewhat of a challenge. Nevertheless, logically it makes sens, as powder/ammo business is doing well, with most companies running productions 24/7 due to the increased demand. I hope it is true, as I still would like to try the VV N570 in my .338LM ;)
 
So, why is Vihtavuori powder linked on Hodgdons home page?
 
I for one would like to see the proof this please, I think they do a good job with my orders

bodywerks said:
I'd take anything Bruno says with a grain of salt. They want their customers to start in a panic so they can justify charging their gouge prices.
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like an "opportunity" for a Member owned Powder plant. A Snipers hide "group buy", on steroids, and seriously: a good investment, in these times.DOH! Just looked at the dates. Never mind.
 
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