Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

[ivankonev]

Considering the low power 2.5X scope on the Springfield 1903/A4 sniper from WWII, what would you consider a maximum REALISTIC range for this weapon?

On mine at 300 yards, the crosshairs are close to blocking out (covering up) a 6" diameter plate completely.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

I've shot the Vintage Sniper Matches at Perry for the past couple years, and there we shoot out to 600 yards. Accuracy isn't a problem, and keeping them in the 10 ring isn't much of a problem. As you mentioned, the scopes are the real limiting factor. I haven't shot one with crosshairs, but I think they'd probably help a bit. I have an M84 scope on mine, and the post blocks out a pretty substantial portion of the black on that 600 yard target. In combat, I'd have to think long and hard about giving away my position for making a shot on a target that was largely obscured by my own post/crosshairs. I guess it'd depend on just how exposed the target was, what sort of background he was standing against, etc.. We shoot the first stage of this match at 300 yards, and at that distance, I'd have no hesitation.

For what it's worth, some years back I read an interview with Bill Krilling, who carried an M1C in Korea and made a fair number of kills. He considered 300 yards to be his personal limit. He specifically mentioned the scope and reticles as being the limiting factor for him, and stated that 300 was about the limit that he knew he could make a first-round kill. Bill was also a very accomplished competitive shooter, and knew his business with a rifle. I think I'd trust his judgment on this one.

 

[JL]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

All time sniper record was done with irons.
"if they weren`t further than 450m, it was usually 1st round hit"

I guess as long as you see what to aim, 2.5 will not be too limiting factor.

 

[n64atlas]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

I use the crosshairs to "cut the pie" when shooting at targets. If you know your scope settings to get on center, just split the target in 1/4's.
You don't need the center to aim.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

shoot it as far as you can reach, 1000 should be doable.

 

[ivankonev]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

"In combat, I'd have to think long and hard about giving away my position for making a shot on a target that was largely obscured by my own post/crosshairs. I guess it'd depend on just how exposed the target was, what sort of background he was standing against, etc.. "

. . .Or how good my escape route is!!

 

[madcratebuilder]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

Shooting at paper you can do any range you want. In actual use during war2 and Korea, Brit and GI snipers would limit the shots to the 300-400yd area. This is with equipment of the day, 2.5-3.5X scopes.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

I haven't used a 2.5 Scope on an 'A4, but I used a 2.2 scope quite a bit on M1C/D's that being the M84 scope.

I ran sniper schools for the national guard using that set up.

The M-84 turent is set on 50 yard incurments. You sight it in at 50, 100, 150 or where ever, then its good to 900 yards.

It worked quite well on the E-Sil target to that range using the M1 ball (172 grn boat tail) or the M72 Match round.

It was also pretty dern close with the both the M2 Ball (152 gn flat base) and the M2 armor piercing ( 168.5 grn FB)

To give you an example the angle of departure is basicly the same. Looking at the 900 yard mark its 36.8 min. for the M1 round, 36.7 for the M2, and 37.8 for the M2 Armor Piercing.

Now after saying all that, it still boils down to the shooter, but thats the same with any rifle/scope.

Some people just cant shoot and I'd send them home with a note to the commander to make them an RTO or something.

 

[Ranger413]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

I've gone to the CMP Eastern Games and Georgia Games with my 1903A4 clone - its got a 1" tube Weaver 2.5X. I consider my scores respectable, about 85% for the 300 and 600 yard lines combined. The best group I've posted thus far was a 7/8" 5-shot group at 100 yards during load development. I'm constantly amazed at the accuracy of these old rifles. Mine sports a 1944 (was new in the grease before I put it into the action) 2-groove barre. Nostalgic for sure!

 

[rojkoh]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevin Thomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've shot the Vintage Sniper Matches at Perry for the past couple years, and there we shoot out to 600 yards. Accuracy isn't a problem, and keeping them in the 10 ring isn't much of a problem. As you mentioned, the scopes are the real limiting factor. I haven't shot one with crosshairs, but I think they'd probably help a bit. I have an M84 scope on mine, and the post blocks out a pretty substantial portion of the black on that 600 yard target. In combat, I'd have to think long and hard about giving away my position for making a shot on a target that was largely obscured by my own post/crosshairs. I guess it'd depend on just how exposed the target was, what sort of background he was standing against, etc.. We shoot the first stage of this match at 300 yards, and at that distance, I'd have no hesitation.

For what it's worth, some years back I read an interview with Bill Krilling, who carried an M1C in Korea and made a fair number of kills. He considered 300 yards to be his personal limit. He specifically mentioned the scope and reticles as being the limiting factor for him, and stated that 300 was about the limit that he knew he could make a first-round kill. Bill was also a very accomplished competitive shooter, and knew his business with a rifle. I think I'd trust his judgment on this one. </div></div>

Kevin, if you want, I can have CE Harris contact you. He currently had and uses an A4. I also have several references for the original and match Springfields. CE was TAR technical staff for years before moving onto Ruger. Then you could ask Humpy, he also knows. PS have Lapua brass for accuracy ammo testing.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: Realistic max range for a 2.5x 1903/A4?

Thanks for the offer! I hadn't spoken with CE since my days with Sierra and had no idea where he'd gotten off to.