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After crossing the L/D for the very first time, what is the # 1 Field Craft trait, you believe, you have never mastered to-date?
Fieldcraft Rearview mirror? 1
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
Land Nav on ski's in Western Alaska. No chance of pace count. No terrain features, nothing but blowning snow, yet you have to hit a house, village, etc 60-80 miles away.
Compasses didnt work, you could have a little lateral drift and not know it, then sticking to the compass heading you still miss.
Sometimes (most of the time) the wind dies down at night and you can use stars and a watch to navagate. More accurate then a compass. (we didn't have GPS's back then).
Land Nav on ski's in Western Alaska. No chance of pace count. No terrain features, nothing but blowning snow, yet you have to hit a house, village, etc 60-80 miles away.
Compasses didnt work, you could have a little lateral drift and not know it, then sticking to the compass heading you still miss.
Sometimes (most of the time) the wind dies down at night and you can use stars and a watch to navagate. More accurate then a compass. (we didn't have GPS's back then).
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
I really, REALLY agree with Kraig.
Plain old map reading and orienteering (over distances, both mounted and dismounted) are not emphasized nearly enough (and are signature skills in many Special Forces selection processes).
Celestial navigation (generally and technically with a compass and chronometer) are becoming a part of folklore in the day of GPS -- until a battery dies or your receiver can't see birds to get a fix.
You can't get to where you're going if you don't know where you are.
I really, REALLY agree with Kraig.
Plain old map reading and orienteering (over distances, both mounted and dismounted) are not emphasized nearly enough (and are signature skills in many Special Forces selection processes).
Celestial navigation (generally and technically with a compass and chronometer) are becoming a part of folklore in the day of GPS -- until a battery dies or your receiver can't see birds to get a fix.
You can't get to where you're going if you don't know where you are.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
I agree with both of you as well.
While GPS was nice, it is like ALL electronic devices. Never fail proof, and secondary to the battery free methods.
Sectioning and Re-sectioning was something that I was always into.
I agree with both of you as well.
While GPS was nice, it is like ALL electronic devices. Never fail proof, and secondary to the battery free methods.
Sectioning and Re-sectioning was something that I was always into.
G
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Re: Rearview mirror? 1
Day or night I was fair, with a std issue map an compass, but always came up short using the stars. I really regret not learning that side of the equation, better.
Day or night I was fair, with a std issue map an compass, but always came up short using the stars. I really regret not learning that side of the equation, better.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
When I was attending IOBC we were on a night compus course.
I was in the Alaska NG at the time. Our state patch was the big dipper.
If you've been to Benning, you know its pretty flat, lots of trees. Difficult to find terrain features in the dark.
I never told anyone I was using the stars and had them confused as to why I didnt have any problems.
The other students kept pestering me as to how I wasn't having any problems.
I told them the two stars that made up the outer part of the cup of the big dipper always pointed to the North Star.
Of course they new that, so I then pointed to my unit patch and told them the stars always pointed north.
I had them confused big time, trying to figure out how I could use my shoulder patch to nagagate at night.
I never told them any different.
I love map reading, regular land nav., using stars and even the GPS's are fun to use.
My map reading made me a not so normal 2LT. but then again I was an E-7 when I went to OCS.
When I was attending IOBC we were on a night compus course.
I was in the Alaska NG at the time. Our state patch was the big dipper.
If you've been to Benning, you know its pretty flat, lots of trees. Difficult to find terrain features in the dark.
I never told anyone I was using the stars and had them confused as to why I didnt have any problems.
The other students kept pestering me as to how I wasn't having any problems.
I told them the two stars that made up the outer part of the cup of the big dipper always pointed to the North Star.
Of course they new that, so I then pointed to my unit patch and told them the stars always pointed north.
I had them confused big time, trying to figure out how I could use my shoulder patch to nagagate at night.
I never told them any different.
I love map reading, regular land nav., using stars and even the GPS's are fun to use.
My map reading made me a not so normal 2LT. but then again I was an E-7 when I went to OCS.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
OK back to the orginal post, OTHER topics in LOOKING BACK in the Mirror.
Foot wear. Bunny boots suck. Yeah they kept your feet warm, fine for setting still but sucked when moving.
Normally, you get up, its 40 below, your frooze. You slip your feet into the bunny boots, which are icy but toasty warm by the time you get them laced up.
Problem is you're feet are sweating before move a click.
I refused to wear them. I used the army mountain boots. I carried an extra pair of felt liners inside my shirt which dried them out. Come night, I'd remove the felt liners, leave them outside to freeze. I carried some small rocks which I heated in my canteen cup. I put the rocks in the boots, stuffed socks in to hold the heat. The next morning they were dry. As to the frozen lners, I shook the ice crystals out of them, put them in my shirt, took the ones I carried yesterday and put them in the boot.
My feet never got cold, nor did they rot because of floating in the sweat in the bunny boots.
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Another thing, Arctic Canteens. They are suppose to keep water from freezing. Thats true, but I put hot coffee in mine and had hot coffee until noon, in which I made more coffee.
I still use my arctic canteen today while hunting on horse back, I like my hot coffee.
OK back to the orginal post, OTHER topics in LOOKING BACK in the Mirror.
Foot wear. Bunny boots suck. Yeah they kept your feet warm, fine for setting still but sucked when moving.
Normally, you get up, its 40 below, your frooze. You slip your feet into the bunny boots, which are icy but toasty warm by the time you get them laced up.
Problem is you're feet are sweating before move a click.
I refused to wear them. I used the army mountain boots. I carried an extra pair of felt liners inside my shirt which dried them out. Come night, I'd remove the felt liners, leave them outside to freeze. I carried some small rocks which I heated in my canteen cup. I put the rocks in the boots, stuffed socks in to hold the heat. The next morning they were dry. As to the frozen lners, I shook the ice crystals out of them, put them in my shirt, took the ones I carried yesterday and put them in the boot.
My feet never got cold, nor did they rot because of floating in the sweat in the bunny boots.
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Another thing, Arctic Canteens. They are suppose to keep water from freezing. Thats true, but I put hot coffee in mine and had hot coffee until noon, in which I made more coffee.
I still use my arctic canteen today while hunting on horse back, I like my hot coffee.
G
Guest
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Re: Rearview mirror? 1
I lucked out with foot wear, std size for me was 10.5/W. Stateside was a none issue for me but, my first tour could hit -38 to -40*F as well. Bunny(Mickey Mouse to us) boots an I went out together one time, an one time only. I drew a pair of std 13's an did the mess-haul lard rub down, inserted a pair of felts, an wore two pair of socks. Switched out the felts an socks often, an like you keep the spare sets between my shirt an pants at the belt line. Never had a foot problem in the cold. My second tour in the jungle was a heat, rot issue. Had Dad send me a few pair of thick black, 100% nylons an cut two slits in the side of my boots to let the water out. That worked well, but every now an then I'd have to waste a little water to clean out the mud, but it was a small price for the gain. Keep a second canteen for none potable and there was always a stream/patty or three we all refilled from along the way.
Wish I'd have gotten deeper into burst commo an faster code. Looked at some of today's(commo)stuff an could not believe the weight an size saving in the hardware, let alone the battery's.
I lucked out with foot wear, std size for me was 10.5/W. Stateside was a none issue for me but, my first tour could hit -38 to -40*F as well. Bunny(Mickey Mouse to us) boots an I went out together one time, an one time only. I drew a pair of std 13's an did the mess-haul lard rub down, inserted a pair of felts, an wore two pair of socks. Switched out the felts an socks often, an like you keep the spare sets between my shirt an pants at the belt line. Never had a foot problem in the cold. My second tour in the jungle was a heat, rot issue. Had Dad send me a few pair of thick black, 100% nylons an cut two slits in the side of my boots to let the water out. That worked well, but every now an then I'd have to waste a little water to clean out the mud, but it was a small price for the gain. Keep a second canteen for none potable and there was always a stream/patty or three we all refilled from along the way.
Wish I'd have gotten deeper into burst commo an faster code. Looked at some of today's(commo)stuff an could not believe the weight an size saving in the hardware, let alone the battery's.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
For the OP question... Man tracking. That stuff's hard and really is an art form. I think wind calling is easier....
Stalking was one of my weak sides too and took a lot of practice and work for me to get up to par on, including being the only skill I had to remediate in school. I'd still say I never really "mastered" it knowing some of the other guys in my platoon and their skills. Seemed like they could find a loophole through three bushes with ease while it would take me an hour to build one.
For the jungle rot on the feet, I quit wearing socks from March-October. My feet really toughened up and since I wasn't wearing a water sponge on my feet my boots would dry out in 1/4 the time. Never had a foot problem after I started that. For cold weather the polypro sock liners and then a good pair of Thorlo or quality wool socks work great for me, but I never hit any serious arctic work like some of you guys.
For the OP question... Man tracking. That stuff's hard and really is an art form. I think wind calling is easier....
Stalking was one of my weak sides too and took a lot of practice and work for me to get up to par on, including being the only skill I had to remediate in school. I'd still say I never really "mastered" it knowing some of the other guys in my platoon and their skills. Seemed like they could find a loophole through three bushes with ease while it would take me an hour to build one.
For the jungle rot on the feet, I quit wearing socks from March-October. My feet really toughened up and since I wasn't wearing a water sponge on my feet my boots would dry out in 1/4 the time. Never had a foot problem after I started that. For cold weather the polypro sock liners and then a good pair of Thorlo or quality wool socks work great for me, but I never hit any serious arctic work like some of you guys.
G
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Re: Rearview mirror? 1
Redmanss,
Were you a outdoors man/hunter before entering the service?
Redmanss,
Were you a outdoors man/hunter before entering the service?
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
I spent a lot of time in the high desert in Utah, mostly varmint hunting or fishing up in the mountains. Working in the piney forests and dense bush on Lejeune was significantly different to me than the sage brush/dirt terrain.
The treeline stalks were the worst for me starting out, but I loved it when we would go open field. It was finding/building a loophole that was my biggest challenge, not the movement to the FFP. I have one instructor to thank for actually getting down and teaching me how to execute it, and without him I surely would have never made it through. Up to that point I was basically thrown in to sink or swim.
With the tracking I had to learn to get my eyes off the ground and look at the full picture instead of developing tunnel vision.
The best stalker in our platoon at that time was from Boston, so sometimes even city kids surprise us all. He also took high shooter out of his class and had never shot a rifle prior to enlisting. He was the closest thing I've seen to a natural.
I spent a lot of time in the high desert in Utah, mostly varmint hunting or fishing up in the mountains. Working in the piney forests and dense bush on Lejeune was significantly different to me than the sage brush/dirt terrain.
The treeline stalks were the worst for me starting out, but I loved it when we would go open field. It was finding/building a loophole that was my biggest challenge, not the movement to the FFP. I have one instructor to thank for actually getting down and teaching me how to execute it, and without him I surely would have never made it through. Up to that point I was basically thrown in to sink or swim.
With the tracking I had to learn to get my eyes off the ground and look at the full picture instead of developing tunnel vision.
The best stalker in our platoon at that time was from Boston, so sometimes even city kids surprise us all. He also took high shooter out of his class and had never shot a rifle prior to enlisting. He was the closest thing I've seen to a natural.
G
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Re: Rearview mirror? 1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the tracking I had to learn to get my eyes off the ground and look at the full picture instead of developing tunnel vision.
</div></div>
That is the problem most have, even in to-days world, forrest for the trees is so true. However once you learn what stands out to a good tracker over what the normal set of boots leaves, that gives you the edge to move his team within a kz of your, choice. Be it direct, or indirect, with indirect having been my favorite.
Wish I could have took a school, OJT was/is a school of hard knocks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the tracking I had to learn to get my eyes off the ground and look at the full picture instead of developing tunnel vision.
</div></div>
That is the problem most have, even in to-days world, forrest for the trees is so true. However once you learn what stands out to a good tracker over what the normal set of boots leaves, that gives you the edge to move his team within a kz of your, choice. Be it direct, or indirect, with indirect having been my favorite.
Wish I could have took a school, OJT was/is a school of hard knocks.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
navigation is essential. cracked me up awhile back a buddy asks me to go night time fishing. im not much on fishing but went cuz my son wanted to. long story short, after trolling a bunch of coves the gps/fishfinder gadget hes using craps out or he lost his map program or some sich nonsense and he looks up and asks "which way back to the dock?" "did we come in from the right or left and which way at that split?" "i only gotta nuf gas to getus back if we go the right way now."
im laughing and said "see that star...its polaris." hes like"so.." i proceeded to explain to him i noticed wed been traveling southeast all night so we need to go more or less toward that or slightly left of it. people are funny.lol.
navigation is essential. cracked me up awhile back a buddy asks me to go night time fishing. im not much on fishing but went cuz my son wanted to. long story short, after trolling a bunch of coves the gps/fishfinder gadget hes using craps out or he lost his map program or some sich nonsense and he looks up and asks "which way back to the dock?" "did we come in from the right or left and which way at that split?" "i only gotta nuf gas to getus back if we go the right way now."
im laughing and said "see that star...its polaris." hes like"so.." i proceeded to explain to him i noticed wed been traveling southeast all night so we need to go more or less toward that or slightly left of it. people are funny.lol.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
I've always known I need to do a better job with the whole "black out" concept. I mean seriously, how am I supposed to change the batteries to my GPS in the dark? How am I supposed to look at my Iphone screen with it not lit up? HOW I ask is one supposed to change the song on an Ipod without being able to see it? Come on everyone knows you cant smoke under a pancho, that shit just cheech and chong steamrolls you, and how is one supposed to keep walking with a pancho over your head? How am I supposed to kick leaves over the turd I just laid in the dark without a flashlight? How for the love of hesus am I supposed to tell my team leaders what to do if I cant talk to them, I tried telepathy and that shit dont work.
I've always known I need to do a better job with the whole "black out" concept. I mean seriously, how am I supposed to change the batteries to my GPS in the dark? How am I supposed to look at my Iphone screen with it not lit up? HOW I ask is one supposed to change the song on an Ipod without being able to see it? Come on everyone knows you cant smoke under a pancho, that shit just cheech and chong steamrolls you, and how is one supposed to keep walking with a pancho over your head? How am I supposed to kick leaves over the turd I just laid in the dark without a flashlight? How for the love of hesus am I supposed to tell my team leaders what to do if I cant talk to them, I tried telepathy and that shit dont work.
G
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Re: Rearview mirror? 1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always known I need to do a better job with the whole "black out" concept. I mean seriously, how am I supposed to change the batteries to my GPS in the dark? How am I supposed to look at my Iphone screen with it not lit up? HOW I ask is one supposed to change the song on an Ipod without being able to see it? Come on everyone knows you cant smoke under a pancho, that shit just cheech and chong steamrolls you, and how is one supposed to keep walking with a pancho over your head? How am I supposed to kick leaves over the turd I just laid in the dark without a flashlight? How for the love of hesus am I supposed to tell my team leaders what to do if I cant talk to them, I tried telepathy and that shit dont work. </div></div>
Funny,... but some of that is worth a real look if your going out an about.
All I'll say right now is, it's not hard to find the American Military at night when, you stop an think about it. It was not until I learned how Iven, was able to find our Claymores in pitch black an turn them around, did my light come on. Field Craft is a never ending block of instruction, an those that think they have it mastered, quickly become a place to hang a, toe tag.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've always known I need to do a better job with the whole "black out" concept. I mean seriously, how am I supposed to change the batteries to my GPS in the dark? How am I supposed to look at my Iphone screen with it not lit up? HOW I ask is one supposed to change the song on an Ipod without being able to see it? Come on everyone knows you cant smoke under a pancho, that shit just cheech and chong steamrolls you, and how is one supposed to keep walking with a pancho over your head? How am I supposed to kick leaves over the turd I just laid in the dark without a flashlight? How for the love of hesus am I supposed to tell my team leaders what to do if I cant talk to them, I tried telepathy and that shit dont work. </div></div>
Funny,... but some of that is worth a real look if your going out an about.
All I'll say right now is, it's not hard to find the American Military at night when, you stop an think about it. It was not until I learned how Iven, was able to find our Claymores in pitch black an turn them around, did my light come on. Field Craft is a never ending block of instruction, an those that think they have it mastered, quickly become a place to hang a, toe tag.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
-Tracking
But more importantly how it relates to the offensive targeting of a unit or indivual. I think back to deployments I've done and I cant help but think of how defensive in nature our tactics were. Mainly at the large unit level but at the same time how that is forced upon the small unit. We knew who the bad guys were, how they conducted business but were not allowed to actively hunt them. Almost as if we were expected to walk around until something happened. It seems to me that the offensive mindset is almost completely left the MC.
Knowing what I know now, I shudder when I talk to units about how they conduct business and the ammount of information that is overlooked or outright ignored. We fail to think like the enemy.
Same school, Same teacher, Same book, Same trap.
-Tracking
But more importantly how it relates to the offensive targeting of a unit or indivual. I think back to deployments I've done and I cant help but think of how defensive in nature our tactics were. Mainly at the large unit level but at the same time how that is forced upon the small unit. We knew who the bad guys were, how they conducted business but were not allowed to actively hunt them. Almost as if we were expected to walk around until something happened. It seems to me that the offensive mindset is almost completely left the MC.
Knowing what I know now, I shudder when I talk to units about how they conduct business and the ammount of information that is overlooked or outright ignored. We fail to think like the enemy.
Same school, Same teacher, Same book, Same trap.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
Tracking or cutting sign are definitely perishable skills and not emphasized or practiced enough. I also have to agree with others about the raw map and compass skills these days. It is the gps generation I suppose. I am always amazed (not really) that folks don't know what magnetic declination is for their AOR.
Tracking or cutting sign are definitely perishable skills and not emphasized or practiced enough. I also have to agree with others about the raw map and compass skills these days. It is the gps generation I suppose. I am always amazed (not really) that folks don't know what magnetic declination is for their AOR.
Re: Rearview mirror? 1
Got to agree with non electronic based nav. Map, Compass and the land. If you hit the hills away from civilisation and your GPS shits itself..... Well you can figure out what can happen.
Got to agree with non electronic based nav. Map, Compass and the land. If you hit the hills away from civilisation and your GPS shits itself..... Well you can figure out what can happen.
