Had the same complaint. But when I use the rifle, I know it won’t be on paper LOLI had that LPVO for awhile, actually liked the thicker reticle. Wasn't the best for shooting groups but worked well enough for banging steel.
Had the same complaint. But when I use the rifle, I know it won’t be on paper LOLI had that LPVO for awhile, actually liked the thicker reticle. Wasn't the best for shooting groups but worked well enough for banging steel.
Youd have a point if all "recce" situations were approximately the same, i.e. 3 gun comps are all approximately the same. Home defense is going to be approximately the same. CC is approximately the same. (Anyone who uses the term "sniper rifle" is just wrong.)Sniper is a person/training/use case, but the term “sniper rifle” (while sometimes misused) is still a useful and descriptive term. It distinguishes itself from “comp” guns in that most soldiers aren’t going to strap ridiculous extra weights onto their gun because they actually have to carry them. The scope will probably be overbuilt (unlike a benchrest scope). It will probably have a bipod, since it won’t be nestled into a lead sled. A certain range of calibers is implied. We can make reasonable assumptions about the adjustments and the reticle (probably not a duplex), Etc.
“3 gun” is an activity, but “3 gun AR” is a useful descriptive term. It tells us that longer barrels, flashy colors, muzzle breaks, and other things are allowed in the build, whereas most people wouldn’t use those features for a serious use AR. It also tells us that “upgrades” that give time advantages are acceptable even if they slightly harm reliability… there is no other category in which this is generally accepted as a reasonable trade off.
Home defense is an action, but “home defense AR” is still a descriptive term that tells us you’re building a close range gun, probably very simple, and probably equipped with a red dot and white light. We probably know not to advise bipods and high magnification scopes to a guy wanting a HD AR.
Concealed carry is an activity, but saying you’re looking for a concealed carry gun still helps us know that our favorite S and W 500 magnum with 12” barrel probably isn’t the best recommendation.
Recce: All the same concepts apply.
A Recce AR is built to be significantly more accurate/precise than most ARs. (This is the prime distinction between Recce and “do all” or “general purpose”)
It will need some type of magnified optic to do this. It also needs to be capable up close, so high magnification scopes are out unless accompanied by a red dot. This leads most to LPVOs or red dots with magnificatiers.
It will need a premium barrel (unless you get lucky with a unicorn production barrel). If it’s a free floated AR without an upgraded barrel, we’re talking about a general purpose AR, not a recce.
Etc, etc, etc.
I’ve seen the term “recce” bother a few people recently and it always makes me shake my head. Those people are ALL guilty of using at least some of the other terms.
Youd have a point if all "recce" situations were approximately the same, i.e. 3 gun comps are all approximately the same. Home defense is going to be approximately the same. CC is approximately the same. (Anyone who uses the term "sniper rifle" is just wrong.)
Reconnaissance in the pacific northwest differs greatly from reconnaissance in Afghanistan. "Recce" is situation dependent. There is no "one size". (and using the wrong terminology in one situation is not justification for using incorrect terminology in another).
But theres my point exactly. Its not always a 16", its not always midweight bbl, not always a FH, sometimes 10x or 15x optic. "Recce" is the use, not the specs/model. A 12.5 or 13.9 ultra lightweight bbl w/ a red dot and magnifier and suppressor is just as much a "recce" rifle as an 18" midweight w/ a 15x optic and no suppressor is. Neither is necessarily right or wrong - totally dependent on settings.Well I certainly can’t force you to use useful and broadly understood terminology that conveys information concisely
You’re free to spell out that you’re referring to a:
16”ish AR
Match grade barrel
Mid weight barrel
Sturdy Free float handguard
Flash hider (no break)
Magnified (but not too much) optic
Fast but also distance capable reticle
Duty grade in all components
Combat related accessories as appropriate (light, laser, bipod, etc.)
Fed match grade ammunition that also exhibits good terminal performance
I’ll just say, “recce” and anyone in the know will understand all of the above.![]()
I can use a sword for home defense. That doesn’t make it a home defense carbine… there’s a fairly defined definition of what a HD carbine is, and sword falls outside that definition. Yes, home defense is an action, and yes, a sword can be used for that action… that doesn’t change the accepted definition of a home defense carbine in any way.
I can run in boots. That doesn’t make them trail running shoes. Trail running shoes are a defined category. Even if a specific trail is better served by running in boots, that won’t change the fact that boots are boots and trail running shoes are trail running shoes. I could give examples like this all day.
You are more than welcome to do recon with a snub nose revolver or a 20mm anti material rifle… some situations may actually call for that. That won’t in the slightest way detract from the fact that “recce” carbines are (by definition) something much closer to the list I created.
no you're wrong here. recce doesn't mean a do all, I can make something to fit the narrative. a recce is defined, it is narrow but defined. I suggest you read up on it^^^
You realize you're actually making my point, yea? Right tool for the job - what qualifies as "recce" in one scenario does not in another. Im not sure how I can make this point any more clear to you so we'll probably just have to chalk this up to "agree to disagree".
your 18" with a 3.5-18x isn't a recce
Ewww...Apparently the Lilja seal recon/recce barrels were 17" carbine gas
It's not but it's way more useful for the average american shooter than the 1-4x optics, lasers, lights etc.
Apparently the Lilja seal recon/recce barrels were 17" carbine gas so all the 16" midlength guys have been doing it wrong as well:
![]()
.223-8 M4 Threaded - Lilja
These barrels are a true match-grade barrel, we only have one grade for all of our barrels, our best. All of these barrels are made from 1″ diameter 416 alloy rifle-barrel-quality stainless steel. Every barrel is drilled, reamed and rifled in our shop followed by a stress relieving heat...riflebarrels.com
Ewww...
5 minutes of shoddy research isn’t going to undermine the reality if recce carbines… you’ll have to keep trying.
1st, that 17” includes the M4 barrel extension… which just so happens to be about an inch long
2nd, Recce, unlike “SPR” or “MK18” is a concept, based on specific criteria. Yes, to build a copy of the earliest recce receivers, you’d have to use a carbine gas system (and many have). But because it’s a concept, multiple variations (within the bounds of the concept) were (and still are today) employed. That’s why lots of different sights, handguards, etc we’re used, whereas MK12 and MK18 components are more rigidly specific.
What thread was that in? I remember the bet but not the details.Also you still owe me nude pics from that rifle weight bet thread a few months back
You should read my BCM MK12 thread lol.Perhaps you’re unaware that there’s historical facts involved here, not opinions. SEALs and Crane came up with all this. It was decided long before you and I ever heard of the concept. We don’t get to redefine what they did.
I can use a sword for home defense. That doesn’t make it a home defense carbine… there’s a fairly defined definition of what a HD carbine is, and sword falls outside that definition. Yes, home defense is an action, and yes, a sword can be used for that action… that doesn’t change the accepted definition of a home defense carbine in any way.
I can run in boots. That doesn’t make them trail running shoes. Trail running shoes are a defined category. Even if a specific trail is better served by running in boots, that won’t change the fact that boots are boots and trail running shoes are trail running shoes. I could give examples like this all day.
You are more than welcome to do recon with a snub nose revolver or a 20mm anti material rifle… some situations may actually call for that. That won’t in the slightest way detract from the fact that “recce” carbines are (by definition) something much closer to the list I created.
Are you aware of the history of the recce carbines? Crane and SEALs decided that list, I didn’t. And no, an 18” barrel with a high magnification scope doesn’t fit what they specked out. An 18” barrel and large scope actually invalidate one of the design requirements. Do you know which requirement that was?
A skinny barrel doesn’t fit either… this literally isn’t up for debate… people WAY above/before you and me already defined these things. I can link some history/information if you’d like. It’s a very well defined weapon type with specific items known to give us good pointers (Lilja barrels early on, etc).
In short, build and use whatever you want. You can even call it by whatever name you want… (my gun identifies as a_____). But that won’t make actual recce rifles any less actual recce rifles.
Those of us who know the history of the development of recce rifles will keep calling them Recce rifles and understanding each other.
Not inclusivity? Or equity? Or disinformation?Least favorite buzzword of the past few years: recce
Really? Have you met “mil-spec?”Least favorite buzzword of the past few years: recce
None of those are recent, get out from under that rock.Not inclusivity? Or equity? Or disinformation?
What thread was that in? I remember the bet but not the details.
In the interest of transparency it seems only fitting that I post the nudes in the thread for all to see.
Just an update. I set it up on my 300BLK 12.5in and shoot subsonic to 2 moa steels at 350 (13.3 mils) and 450 yards (19.5 mils)Athlon Helos Gen2 2-12 if you’re not looking for a 1x bottom.
Still waiting. Got any word on when we will see it?The ATACR reticle is now (or will soon be) available in the NX8.
Sir, I appreciate your understanding of the English language.Sniper is a person/training/use case, but the term “sniper rifle” (while sometimes misused) is still a useful and descriptive term. It distinguishes itself from “comp” guns in that most soldiers aren’t going to strap ridiculous extra weights onto their gun because they actually have to carry them. The scope will probably be overbuilt (unlike a benchrest scope). It will probably have a bipod, since it won’t be nestled into a lead sled. A certain range of calibers is implied. We can make reasonable assumptions about the adjustments and the reticle (probably not a duplex), Etc.
“3 gun” is an activity, but “3 gun AR” is a useful descriptive term. It tells us that longer barrels, flashy colors, muzzle breaks, and other things are allowed in the build, whereas most people wouldn’t use those features for a serious use AR. It also tells us that “upgrades” that give time advantages are acceptable even if they slightly harm reliability… there is no other category in which this is generally accepted as a reasonable trade off.
Home defense is an action, but “home defense AR” is still a descriptive term that tells us you’re building a close range gun, probably very simple, and probably equipped with a red dot and white light. We probably know not to advise bipods and high magnification scopes to a guy wanting a HD AR.
Concealed carry is an activity, but saying you’re looking for a concealed carry gun still helps us know that our favorite S and W 500 magnum with 12” barrel probably isn’t the best recommendation.
Recce: All the same concepts apply.
A Recce AR is built to be significantly more accurate/precise than most ARs. (This is the prime distinction between Recce and “do all” or “general purpose”)
It will need some type of magnified optic to do this. It also needs to be capable up close, so high magnification scopes are out unless accompanied by a red dot. This leads most to LPVOs or red dots with magnificatiers.
It will need a premium barrel (unless you get lucky with a unicorn production barrel). If it’s a free floated AR without an upgraded barrel, we’re talking about a general purpose AR, not a recce.
Etc, etc, etc.
I’ve seen the term “recce” bother a few people recently and it always makes me shake my head. Those people are ALL guilty of using at least some of the other terms.
Thanks for the definitions and clarifications, Steamroller!Sir, I appreciate your understanding of the English language.
Since you guys like word definitions. Difference between:
Surveillance and Reconnaissance.
Go.
Surveillance : watching someone else eat a boxSince you guys like word definitions. Difference between:
Surveillance and Reconnaissance.
Go.
So you have your two accounts back up and running?Surveillance : watching someone else eat a box
Reconnaissance : tasting the box yourself
You know they make 2.5-20s nowView attachment 8007855
4x16 for Recce Rifle all day, that way you can take bets which front tooth you can hit .........
Same weight as a 4x32. Not much smaller
And it’s 2.5 on the bottom end.Same weight as a 4x32. Not much smaller
The 2.5 -20 NX8 is optically a lower performer to the 4x32 as well. Juice isn't worth the squeeze on it.And it’s 2.5 on the bottom end.
Do you even shoot brah.
Now I know you don’t shoot things that bleedThe 2.5 -20 NX8 is optically a lower performer to the 4x32 as well. Juice isn't worth the squeeze on it.
I thought you didn’t shoot. And a Vortex?!?!? You’ve changed
This Recce rifle BS is all made up. It's the type of things that exist on social media forums amongst civilians. Crane has tried a lot of things. Doesn't mean it makes sense. The idea of modifying a normal 14.5" carbine into a "Recce" rifle by putting a better barrel on it and 1.5" means someone just wanted more reach and accuracy. Which is counter to the idea of reconnaissance. Unless you are doing "What's a recce rifle these days? Something in-between a run-n-gun carbine and a precision rifle?
View attachment 8007956
16" 5.56mm w/ 5-20x Ultra Short & canted RMR and assaulter bipod.
View attachment 8007957
Or the AR10 version? 16" rifle length gas 6mm Creedmoor with Steiner 2.9-20x & canted T-1 with assaulter bipod.
Both of these have evolved into my "do everything" rifles.
I’ve heard too many good things about the 1-10I thought you didn’t shoot. And a Vortex?!?!? You’ve changed
Just tagged out Tuesday on east coast whitetail. 3 headshots at 80 to 120yds inside 20 mins. All at 8x.Now I know you don’t shoot things that bleed
Well, we aim to pleaseI was hoping for someone to show their AR with a 7" barrel and a 6-24 scope (with a full sunshade so it sticks out past the barrel), call it their Recce build and watch the heads explode.
thank yall for the laughs. truly didnt disappoint.