Recoil Level Question / Bad Shoulder Concern

[RadarsRUs]

Want to replace my .223 Varmint Barrel on a Savage BTCSS with a heavier caliber. Thinking .308 with a hi-end pipe for 600-800 yard precision fire (like F-Class). My concern is bad Rotator Cuff in shoulder and 50-60 rnds. per sitting of recoil. What are impressions of recoil some of you guys have in relation to other long-range cartridges that DO have a good bit of "Steam" in them.

How effective are those wearable "recoil absorbing" shoulder pads (can't remember the two makers I have in mind).

I am a Reloader (thank God). How "soft" can you get a .308 to shoot and still keep long-rang (under 100yds.) velocity and very small-group accuracy intact? Also Brass Availability is (of course) a concern these days.

I really like the idea of the "universal acceptance" of .308 so I keep getting pulled in that direction but I just don't have enough Trigger-Time behind a .308 Bolt-Gun to answer my own questions here. Lots of Match-Grade .223 ammo made and fired but not larger.

All Input Encouraged...

Yeah, you can call me a Greenhorn & Rookie too if it makes you feel better (ha, ha).

 

[MilDot1960]

Compared to the sharp but Light recoil of the .223 it should'nt make much differance YES a .308 kicks alittle more but because you will be adding weight to your Rifle by the Fatter heavier Barrel that in its self will reduce the amount of recoil, I know when I put 40/50 .308s down range i did'nt feel anything when I stopped for coffee But when I shot over 30 rounds from my 30-06 in about an hour I knew that I had been using the 30-06, Ofcoarse I never have used shoulder pads but that was just because I had'nt thought of it, the 30-06 is more like a heavy Push compare to the .308 and out of all three I prefer the .308 interms of range, Recoil and all round performance, If you hold it tight in to your shoulder I think you will enjoy it,

Dont worry about it to much because it is one of the best chamberings ever made.

John

 

[BoilerUP]

To my shoulder, a 308 recoils noticeably more than a 260 (or 6.5 Creedmoor, either of which ballistically spank the 308)

Which recoils more than a 243, which does fantastic at extended range with 105gr Hybrids at the cost of barrel life.

Which recoils more than a 6BR, which still has ballistics better than the 308 with a lot less recoil and long barrel life.

Which recoils more than a long-throated 223 slinging 80.5 Fullbores or even 90gr VLDs.

In summation, "bad shoulder" doesn't play well with a 308 *in my opinion*, especially with a multitude of lower-recoiling, better ballistics options that are out there.

 

[MilDot1960]

To my shoulder, a 308 recoils noticeably more than a 260 (or 6.5 Creedmoor, either of which ballistically spank the 308)

Which recoils more than a 243, which does fantastic at extended range with 105gr Hybrids at the cost of barrel life.

Which recoils more than a 6BR, which still has ballistics better than the 308 with a lot less recoil and long barrel life.

Which recoils more than a long-throated 223 slinging 80.5 Fullbores or even 90gr VLDs.

In summation, "bad shoulder" doesn't play well with a 308 *in my opinion*, especially with a multitude of lower-recoiling, better ballistics options that are out there.

Yep this is true but for some reason he wants to go with the .308 weather it is the heavier Bullet weight or the want of a Mod70/700 Rem patten I dont know and as he said about wearing a shoulder pad might help,

Would a Hi Quality butt pad help him much?? I have never used one so I would not know how well they help,

John

 

[shovelstrokeed]

I have some pretty bad rotator cuff issues. I cannot raise my elbow past my armpit nor swing it back when raised very far, nor can I reach back past the center of my hip with the arm lowered. Pain is a pretty good limiter when it comes to motion. I do not, at present, shoot a bolt gun but rather a LWRC REPR with 18" bbl in 308. FGMM in 168g is manageable at up to 50 rounds in a 4 hour session at my local range using a PRS stock and shooting with a bipod and sandbag off a bench. Keep in mind this is a 15 min hot, 15 min cold range session.

My shoulder bothers me a little at the end of the day but I sleep well at night so it isn't too bad.

I'm going to purchase a bolt gun in the near future and am going through some of the same decision making process. I do not reload now, did before when I was shooting IHMSA Silhouette. With a 13.5" bbl hand gun, with open sights, I could hold 2.5" groups on steel rams at 200m using 42g of 4895 behind Sierra Match King 168s in Federal brass. Almost no come-up between 50 and 200m either. Slighly different holds was all that was required. Oh do I wish Varget was available 30 years ago.

I'm still torn on caliber. I have a Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308 that shoots well and doesn't bother me so it is not all about weight of rifle but the configuration. The Scout weighs about 6.5 lbs with scope and the REPR is closer to 12. I'm thinking about getting an adjustable butt plate for the PRS stock on the REPR so I can get further into my shoulder pocket on the bench rather than on the point of the shoulder as the gun is hitting me now.

 

[Pinecone]

Some things that will help.

1) The heavier the rifle, the less felt recoil.

2) You can put a muzzle brake or suppressor on a .308 to reduce recoil.

3) You can put something like a Limbsaver pad on the rifle to absorb some recoil.

4) Limbsaver and PAST make wearable recoil absorbing pads.

5) For short range, you can work up a load using Trail Boss that will be supersonic out to about 200 yards and have very low recoil. But may loose some accuracy.

 

[MilDot1960]

I have some pretty bad rotator cuff issues. I cannot raise my elbow past my armpit nor swing it back when raised very far, nor can I reach back past the center of my hip with the arm lowered. Pain is a pretty good limiter when it comes to motion. I do not, at present, shoot a bolt gun but rather a LWRC REPR with 18" bbl in 308. FGMM in 168g is manageable at up to 50 rounds in a 4 hour session at my local range using a PRS stock and shooting with a bipod and sandbag off a bench. Keep in mind this is a 15 min hot, 15 min cold range session.

My shoulder bothers me a little at the end of the day but I sleep well at night so it isn't too bad.

I'm going to purchase a bolt gun in the near future and am going through some of the same decision making process. I do not reload now, did before when I was shooting IHMSA Silhouette. With a 13.5" bbl hand gun, with open sights, I could hold 2.5" groups on steel rams at 200m using 42g of 4895 behind Sierra Match King 168s in Federal brass. Almost no come-up between 50 and 200m either. Slighly different holds was all that was required. Oh do I wish Varget was available 30 years ago.

I'm still torn on caliber. I have a Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308 that shoots well and doesn't bother me so it is not all about weight of rifle but the configuration. The Scout weighs about 6.5 lbs with scope and the REPR is closer to 12. I'm thinking about getting an adjustable butt plate for the PRS stock on the REPR so I can get further into my shoulder pocket on the bench rather than on the point of the shoulder as the gun is hitting me now.

Well I wish you Luck with that, It seems you would know better than most seeing as you live with this curse on a daily base's, Let us know how you get on,

thanks again, John

 

[SporterII]

Kick EEZ butt pad. Most shotgun smiths have them in stock.

 

[Speeddog]

For what it's worth I can add a little from experience. I broke my right shoulder (glenoid), crushed my scapula, broke 12 ribs (mostly right) and sustained a compound fracture of my right clavicle 4 years ago in a horse wreck (don't ask). Despite that I can shoot long .308 sessions without undue difficulty. My rifles are heavy however (full tactical builds with heavy barrels and Manners stocks) and all have effective muzzle breaks and Pacmyer butt plates. I shoot SWA or Federal 175gr full strength loads and typically fire 40-50 rounds a session. While I "know" that I've done it my shoulder doesn't bother me too much and does not keep me up at night after shooting.

i agree with folks above re other calibers. I shoot a lot of .260 in rifles configured similar to my .308s and find that a piece if cake. I'm also thinking about 6BR but haven't yet bitten that bullet so to speak. Overall I'd guess you could shoot pretty much any of the 6s or a well set up .308 without too much trouble.

Best of luck from one broken shoulder to another.

 

[Nisils14]

A muzzle brake will most definitely help in recoil reduction, and adding weight is good too. I have a 700 AAC-SD in a AICS with a brake, the thing feels like zero recoil. I can spot my own hits out to 600yds (the furthest I've gone), which is cool in itself. Naturally 6.5mm calibers are gonna recoil less than .308 and they're flatter shooting as well. I feel like most who get into 6.5mm's reload and have a pretty stick to go with it.

 

[308Gunner]

I have a couple of 308s and with the addition of a break the recoil is a non factor, if you are wanting to shoot F Class it would have to be removeable but a good pad on a good stock goes a long way in recoil reduction. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

 

[RadarsRUs]

Wow, what a great crew! Thanks for all the input. I am relieved to hear enough examples of other "Gimps" shooting 308 without needing morphine and a message afterwards to probably continue in that direction. I will probably try one of those PAST or Limbsaver things at first and see if that cools it down a bit before going to a KickEEz, but great suggestion too.

As for SPEEDDOG...Holy Shit...go easy there buddy, and hope all the parts mended-up in the right places and straight to boot!

 

[agbm]

I use a limbsaver recoil pad and jp recoil eliminator JP - Recoil Eliminators

 

[Cartman]

Hart Systems, L.L.C.

I've had a couple of System IIs installed. I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. Let me know if I can answer any questions as the website is a little sparse.

 

[The_FNG]

I've just had my second shoulder reconstruction after a mine site accident, tore the top and rear muscles in half. I still have pain but the bigger problem i face when shooting is an uncontrollable shake down my right arm, caused from nerve damage.

Just remember, everyone feels pain differently, the best way to tell is maybe borrow a mates rifle and have a few shots to see how it feels...Good luck with it.

 

[Speeddog]

Wow, what a great crew! Thanks for all the input. I am relieved to hear enough examples of other "Gimps" shooting 308 without needing morphine and a message afterwards to probably continue in that direction. I will probably try one of those PAST or Limbsaver things at first and see if that cools it down a bit before going to a KickEEz, but great suggestion too.

As for SPEEDDOG...Holy Shit...go easy there buddy, and hope all the parts mended-up in the right places and straight to boot!

Thanks for the best wishes. I've actually got a whole bunch of crooked parts but can still shoot and work full time. Don't do much run n gun stuff anymore but can still do precision rifle pretty well.

Good luck on your decision.if you set yourself up carefully you should do fine.

 

[TimK]

Another broken shoulder guy here. I avoid hard recoiling rifles like the clap. You didn't mention how much your rifle weighs. When my .308 weighed 11 pounds and had a hard recoil pad, it hurt. It now weighs 17# with a squishy pad and it's a piece of cake to shoot. You might as well have the smith who installs your barrel add a brake while he's at it. Aside from the noise, it will only do good things.

 

[Boxcar]

How do you plan on rebarreling? Your .223 bolt face isn't going to match .308 bolt face. You might be better served by getting a new rifle. Are you going to get a new bolt also?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If it's for target use why not do a 1:8 twist 223 or 223AI? Virtually no recoil, ballistics as good as 308 with 75 and 80 AMAX's, and very low cost to shoot. It's an awesome round and the target won't know you're not shooting a 308. 223AI is also very easy to load as the brass doesn't grow for the most part and you can shoot regular 223 ammo if you want. It has a long barrel life too.