So, I want to get a really nice rifle as I want to get into long range shooting. My local range is only 300 yards but I want to learn to take it beyond 1k. Longest I've shot prior is 500. Budget is 10k maybe. This is my one dream rifle so it has to be superb. I was thinking .260 originally but I want to take long range elk eventually so I am thinking .300 win mag or .338 lapua mag. I'm thinking the Macmillan tac 338 but wOuld really like input from people that have been there and done that so to speak. I'm really leaning towards .300 Win mag at this point as the .338 lapua mag is significantly more expensive to shoot, plus I can use my current Sandman-S instead of having to buy a suppressor just for it.
- Thread starter 45ACP_Marine
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FWIW, I would suggest a AIAT with a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. You need to include to cost of ammo into your calculation. 338LM are great but you don't want to shoot more than about 50 rounds at one session. At $5 a round that's $250 dollars or 10 boxes of 6.5 Creedmoor. Barrel life with the Creed will be significantly longer than the 338. The Creedmoor can take your elk with a well placed shot. Flight ballistics of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 300 WM are almost identical. It is a great round out past 1000 yards. With the AIAT, you can swap the barrels yourself in the field. Adding a 260, 308, 6MM is easy. I own a 338 but don't shoot it much. It is a fine round, only very expensive. When I do burn out the barrel I plan to install a 300 Norma Maggnum in its place. This is the new SOCOM round.
What advantage, other than about $0.70 - $1 per round, does that have over .300 Win mag? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the .300 is going to have more energy correct?
Barrel life, and recoil. The 300 will carry more energy.
You stated that this was going to be your first nice rifle. With the 6.5 a range trip shooting 100 rounds is easy. I have spent all day at the range no shot 300 plus rounds.
The 6.5 Creed is a dream to shoot. Ammo is plentiful and not super expensive.
I have owned a 300WM and currently own my short action AI with 3 barrels and the 338 LM as precision bolt guns. I also have a fair number of gasses.
If I could only have one rifle it would be my short action AI.
You stated that this was going to be your first nice rifle. With the 6.5 a range trip shooting 100 rounds is easy. I have spent all day at the range no shot 300 plus rounds.
The 6.5 Creed is a dream to shoot. Ammo is plentiful and not super expensive.
I have owned a 300WM and currently own my short action AI with 3 barrels and the 338 LM as precision bolt guns. I also have a fair number of gasses.
If I could only have one rifle it would be my short action AI.
Fair enough. Recoil doesn't worry me much, I've shot the big calibers and I have plenty of rifles, my main "big" caliber has always been .308. I have an Ar10 tactical 16 now I was out shooting today as well as a ddm4. I have no issue putting down multiple hundreds of rounds per day with these or even my old .270. I've had a Remington 700 5r before but I don't count that as a "nice" rifle, at least not in the same class I'm going for. If the difference is recoil, then I'll choose the higher energy round every time, unless it's a ridiculously large amount vs the benefits of the round. Is this I'll advised or crazy?
Are you only looking for off the shelf rifles? Or would you consider a custom build? I went down this pathway for selecting my current build after not finding anything over the counter that suited my wants, particularly a manufacturer who used a 9 twist barrel, I settled on a long barrelled 300NM, after originally planning a build around the 300WM using the 230 Berger whilst still allowing for mag feeding.
I was thinking custom but I'm still trying to decide.
Based on my early experience, I wouldn't start out with anything over 300WM performance level . Big rounds are fun , but not very practical or economical to really fine tune your skills .
I fired thousands and thousands of rounds out of various Magnums thinking they were going to magically make me a long range shooter . I've since sold most of them and started spending my time shooting a 6.5 , I enjoy it more , I've learned a ton and can make 1st round hits at most ranges .
I fired thousands and thousands of rounds out of various Magnums thinking they were going to magically make me a long range shooter . I've since sold most of them and started spending my time shooting a 6.5 , I enjoy it more , I've learned a ton and can make 1st round hits at most ranges .
Fair enough. I've all but ruled out .338 Lapua, but I think I'm strongly favoring the .300 win mag. I've shot that round before, 7mm mag as well and the recoil for neither bothers me. I've been reading a thread on the hide about .300 win mag vs 6.5 creedmoor from a couple years ago and it's echoing what I've read elsewhere, if you are punching paper 6.5, if killing things, .300. I might look at getting a cheaper rifle in 6.5, but my big rifle is most likely to be a .300 win mag.
If you can afford both , I say go for it. Lots of practice with the 6.5 and more than enough killing power with the 300WM. 6.5 is no slouch for hunting either.
Do you reload ?
Do you reload ?
I used to. Haven't reset it up since I moved about 2 years ago. I'm about to though.
Where are you planning on hunting? Out west? Tree-stand hunting or backcountry?
FWIW, I (as well as many others I'm sure) have gone down this path before with trying to build a rifle that has dual-uses (target and hunting). What I've learned the hard way (through many painful hikes) is that a target rifle will generally-speaking be too heavy and unwieldy for backcountry hunting (tree-stand hunting I suppose it will work all right). As you've stated you want to hunt elk with this rifle, you're also correct in noting that while the 6.5 has obvious advantages for long sessions of target shooting, it will not be as optimal a hunting round (as it relates to elk) as some of the more traditional big game cartridges out there (like .300 WM). I'm sure some will chime in here saying that they've taken elk just fine with 6.5; I'm not saying that it can't be done, rather I'm saying there are cartridges better optimized for that type of work (especially at long range).
My 2 cents: go find a middle-of-the-road hunting rifle (I would even look at used) chambered in a traditional big-game cartridge (.30-06, .300 WM, .308, 7mm Rem Mag, ect.). Put just enough money into it and a scope to make it effective at your intended shooting range. Going with a magnum would make sense because you will get an energy advantage and the recoil and barrel wear factors won't be a big deal since you'll only be zeroing it and then taking a few shots every season. Use it, enjoy it and don't worry about it getting abused (which it will). Then go put the real money into a dedicated target rifle (chambered in 6.5 or whatever suits your fancy) and a top-quality scope.
Getting a dual-purpose target/hunting rifle sounds good on paper, but when you have to lug that thing around over miles of rough terrain and when it starts to get banged up and abused in rough conditions, you'll realize the value in having a 2nd rifle set aside purely for hunting.
FWIW, I (as well as many others I'm sure) have gone down this path before with trying to build a rifle that has dual-uses (target and hunting). What I've learned the hard way (through many painful hikes) is that a target rifle will generally-speaking be too heavy and unwieldy for backcountry hunting (tree-stand hunting I suppose it will work all right). As you've stated you want to hunt elk with this rifle, you're also correct in noting that while the 6.5 has obvious advantages for long sessions of target shooting, it will not be as optimal a hunting round (as it relates to elk) as some of the more traditional big game cartridges out there (like .300 WM). I'm sure some will chime in here saying that they've taken elk just fine with 6.5; I'm not saying that it can't be done, rather I'm saying there are cartridges better optimized for that type of work (especially at long range).
My 2 cents: go find a middle-of-the-road hunting rifle (I would even look at used) chambered in a traditional big-game cartridge (.30-06, .300 WM, .308, 7mm Rem Mag, ect.). Put just enough money into it and a scope to make it effective at your intended shooting range. Going with a magnum would make sense because you will get an energy advantage and the recoil and barrel wear factors won't be a big deal since you'll only be zeroing it and then taking a few shots every season. Use it, enjoy it and don't worry about it getting abused (which it will). Then go put the real money into a dedicated target rifle (chambered in 6.5 or whatever suits your fancy) and a top-quality scope.
Getting a dual-purpose target/hunting rifle sounds good on paper, but when you have to lug that thing around over miles of rough terrain and when it starts to get banged up and abused in rough conditions, you'll realize the value in having a 2nd rifle set aside purely for hunting.
This ^^^^^^
Determine what you're willing to lug around for the type of hunting you do and be realistic about it. With your budget you can easily grab a Tikka dedicated to hunting and then build your dedicated target rifle.
The he above is probably the best route but if you're comfortable with carrying a 12-13 lb potentially less then options can open up. It's 2017 and we have easy barrel switches, carbon fiber barrels, and lightweight adjustable chassis. The 2 options in thinking here is the Desert Tech rifle with a lighter contour barrel for hunting and you can shoot anything you want out of it with very quick barrel changes. Not to mention the short OAL of it is cool for hunting and suppressors. OR check out the MPA lite chassis. It is 2.9 lbs and still adjauabtle. Drop a bighorn action in it and get a mag bolt face to swap in and shoot 6.5 creed and 300 WSM. Get a carbon barrel for the WSM. WSM might be a little cramped for longer bullets. I think the AI AT might get a bit heavy for hunting but a carbon barrel could change that and you get quick barrel changes. Additionally the new Tubb rifle is a true medium length action so the 300 WSM can be seated appropriately. That is an 11lb rifle with medium Palma barrel.
Lots of options these days. Main thing is understand that you are going to shoot and learn more from your smaller round that you can then apply to the magnums as your skill sets grow. The magnums will teach you to perfect recoil management but you have to have a solid foundation first.
Determine what you're willing to lug around for the type of hunting you do and be realistic about it. With your budget you can easily grab a Tikka dedicated to hunting and then build your dedicated target rifle.
The he above is probably the best route but if you're comfortable with carrying a 12-13 lb potentially less then options can open up. It's 2017 and we have easy barrel switches, carbon fiber barrels, and lightweight adjustable chassis. The 2 options in thinking here is the Desert Tech rifle with a lighter contour barrel for hunting and you can shoot anything you want out of it with very quick barrel changes. Not to mention the short OAL of it is cool for hunting and suppressors. OR check out the MPA lite chassis. It is 2.9 lbs and still adjauabtle. Drop a bighorn action in it and get a mag bolt face to swap in and shoot 6.5 creed and 300 WSM. Get a carbon barrel for the WSM. WSM might be a little cramped for longer bullets. I think the AI AT might get a bit heavy for hunting but a carbon barrel could change that and you get quick barrel changes. Additionally the new Tubb rifle is a true medium length action so the 300 WSM can be seated appropriately. That is an 11lb rifle with medium Palma barrel.
Lots of options these days. Main thing is understand that you are going to shoot and learn more from your smaller round that you can then apply to the magnums as your skill sets grow. The magnums will teach you to perfect recoil management but you have to have a solid foundation first.
The above posts have summed up my thoughts pretty well. If you only want one rifle for both target and hunting I would recommend an AXMC depending on your weight preference. This way you can shoot your .338 or 300 or 6.5 all out of one rifle with one scope. All you need is the SA conversion kit to step down to 308 or 6.5 or whatever your heart desires.
If you don't want to haul an MC around looking for elk, then I would say get either an AI AT or AX, and a dedicated hunting rifle in whatever your flavor of magnum is. Me personally I don't want a pretty gun for hunting. I don't want to freak out if I bang the stock against a rock.
My thoughts. YMMV
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If you don't want to haul an MC around looking for elk, then I would say get either an AI AT or AX, and a dedicated hunting rifle in whatever your flavor of magnum is. Me personally I don't want a pretty gun for hunting. I don't want to freak out if I bang the stock against a rock.
My thoughts. YMMV
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Remember to include a rings and a scope in your budget. Vortex Gen 2 Razors are $2300 to $2500. On that type of gun, you want a good scope and great good rings.
I'd highly recommend starting with a 6.5/260 for your first rifle, or first barrel if you go the AI route. The 6.5mm 140 class bullets can pretty much duplicate the ballistics of a .300 Win 190 SMK out to 1000 yards but at significantly less recoil and cost.
Recoil destroys basic fundamentals. I learned that the hardway by getting a 300 RUM for my 18th birthday (my request to my parents). Was supposed to be my "do all" rifle but the recoil led to bad fundamentals, and the high cost of ammo meant I didn't shoot it much. It killed deer really well though.
Over the last few years I have steadily been decreasing in cartridge power and caliber that I shoot regularly. I shoot more, have better fundamentals, and I am a better hunter and shooter because of it.
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I'd highly recommend starting with a 6.5/260 for your first rifle, or first barrel if you go the AI route. The 6.5mm 140 class bullets can pretty much duplicate the ballistics of a .300 Win 190 SMK out to 1000 yards but at significantly less recoil and cost.
Recoil destroys basic fundamentals. I learned that the hardway by getting a 300 RUM for my 18th birthday (my request to my parents). Was supposed to be my "do all" rifle but the recoil led to bad fundamentals, and the high cost of ammo meant I didn't shoot it much. It killed deer really well though.
Over the last few years I have steadily been decreasing in cartridge power and caliber that I shoot regularly. I shoot more, have better fundamentals, and I am a better hunter and shooter because of it.
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My advice would be to be patient and think about this for a while before you jump in and have regrets later.
For 10 grand you have many options!
Reloading... may I suggest 7mm as a do all caliber. Load it up with the highest BC bullets, like up there at .8BC, for long range, or 140's loaded down for your local 300Y range.
338, is "up there" in recoil. Something I wouldn't want to endure for a day's shooting. Shot some friends 338L and 338 Edge for ELR, I preferred my 30.
The 30-375R is much more pleasant, though wasn't interested in a long day session with it either.
Had a couple 7's, one in a TRG42. Not bad with 176 grain loads at 3040 fps. The rifle was a bit light but with a better brake and with few more pounds it would have been all day friendly. As of recent we have the 195gr and 183 SMK which have ridiculous high BC's in the .8 relm, that's huge! I could see myself doing a 28 Nosler and using the 183's in the future.
Walking around with a heavy rifle is silly, about as silly as a long range session with a light rifle in 300WM, both being about as painful in different ways.
I sure would like a Mausingfield LA in 28 Nosler with a AAA curly maple laminate stock, engraved, gold and ivory inlays and such!
For 10 grand you have many options!
Reloading... may I suggest 7mm as a do all caliber. Load it up with the highest BC bullets, like up there at .8BC, for long range, or 140's loaded down for your local 300Y range.
338, is "up there" in recoil. Something I wouldn't want to endure for a day's shooting. Shot some friends 338L and 338 Edge for ELR, I preferred my 30.
The 30-375R is much more pleasant, though wasn't interested in a long day session with it either.
Had a couple 7's, one in a TRG42. Not bad with 176 grain loads at 3040 fps. The rifle was a bit light but with a better brake and with few more pounds it would have been all day friendly. As of recent we have the 195gr and 183 SMK which have ridiculous high BC's in the .8 relm, that's huge! I could see myself doing a 28 Nosler and using the 183's in the future.
Walking around with a heavy rifle is silly, about as silly as a long range session with a light rifle in 300WM, both being about as painful in different ways.
I sure would like a Mausingfield LA in 28 Nosler with a AAA curly maple laminate stock, engraved, gold and ivory inlays and such!
I think a key factor would be the ability of the shooter to commit to sustained practice. Another factor would be the ability of the bullet to deliver terminal performance at significant distance.
With these in mind, and your accurate assessment of the .260's terminal performance, I would step up the bullet diameter to .284" and the case capacity to the .280 Rem. My suggestion for the bullet would be the Hornady 175gr ELD-X in a 1:8" twist barrel, 24" at least, 26" if possible. The near infinite G1 Ballistic Coefficient of .675
puts this bullet in the Cruise Missile range, and velocities of 2600-2700 should be possible with such barrel lengths.
Beyond 1Kyd performance would be a significant understatement, yet the non-magnum recoil would far better support the sustained practice requirement needed to turn the rifle, bullet, and shooter combination into an accomplished fact.
My estimates are based on conservative loads, and while Hornady has yet to load anything heavier than the 150ge ELD-X as a factory cartridge, the 175gr ELD-X can be handloaded, as can the 162gr ELD-X. The Hornady 10th edition handloading manual, shows loads for a 22" barrel; not optimal, but especially practical for hunting purposes. Target shooting could be accommodated with a switch barrel to a longer bore and heavier profile.
I am physically limited regarding recoil, so I look for the solution that achieves the most for the least recoil. The .280 and the 7mm/.284" ELD-X selections can clearly achieve excellent performance without needing to neuter the terminal outcomes.
Greg
With these in mind, and your accurate assessment of the .260's terminal performance, I would step up the bullet diameter to .284" and the case capacity to the .280 Rem. My suggestion for the bullet would be the Hornady 175gr ELD-X in a 1:8" twist barrel, 24" at least, 26" if possible. The near infinite G1 Ballistic Coefficient of .675
puts this bullet in the Cruise Missile range, and velocities of 2600-2700 should be possible with such barrel lengths.
Beyond 1Kyd performance would be a significant understatement, yet the non-magnum recoil would far better support the sustained practice requirement needed to turn the rifle, bullet, and shooter combination into an accomplished fact.
My estimates are based on conservative loads, and while Hornady has yet to load anything heavier than the 150ge ELD-X as a factory cartridge, the 175gr ELD-X can be handloaded, as can the 162gr ELD-X. The Hornady 10th edition handloading manual, shows loads for a 22" barrel; not optimal, but especially practical for hunting purposes. Target shooting could be accommodated with a switch barrel to a longer bore and heavier profile.
I am physically limited regarding recoil, so I look for the solution that achieves the most for the least recoil. The .280 and the 7mm/.284" ELD-X selections can clearly achieve excellent performance without needing to neuter the terminal outcomes.
Greg
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You've got a great budget and lots of solid info here OP.
FWIW I was looking for a do all rifle not that long ago, and for me the DTA was it. Yes it is a little heavy for hunting, but there's no perfect rifle out there. Sacrifices have to be made somewhere. I put up with the weight because I love all the other benefits I get. Knowing that I can go from a .223 up to a .338 or most anything in between is great piece of mind. Granted I do not own a .338 barrel for mine, but I did have a 300WM barrel for hunting and then my .308 barrel for range fun. I also just acquired a 6.5 barrel that I'll be using for matches. If you're looking for a "do all" rifle the DTA or AXMC might be as close as you can get so that you can be kind to your wallet at the range while still maintaining maximum energy out hunting.
Also; given the fact that you showed some interest in a .338, means that you might get an itch to try it one day. So rather than have to get a whole new rifle, glass, etc. You can just get a barrel be good to go.
Yes they are both heavy for hunting, but from my experience, you can make it manageable if you pick lightweight optics like an AMG, 5-20US, 624i, etc. And get a good sling or eberlestock pack.
Covert is as Covert does.
Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.
FWIW I was looking for a do all rifle not that long ago, and for me the DTA was it. Yes it is a little heavy for hunting, but there's no perfect rifle out there. Sacrifices have to be made somewhere. I put up with the weight because I love all the other benefits I get. Knowing that I can go from a .223 up to a .338 or most anything in between is great piece of mind. Granted I do not own a .338 barrel for mine, but I did have a 300WM barrel for hunting and then my .308 barrel for range fun. I also just acquired a 6.5 barrel that I'll be using for matches. If you're looking for a "do all" rifle the DTA or AXMC might be as close as you can get so that you can be kind to your wallet at the range while still maintaining maximum energy out hunting.
Also; given the fact that you showed some interest in a .338, means that you might get an itch to try it one day. So rather than have to get a whole new rifle, glass, etc. You can just get a barrel be good to go.
Yes they are both heavy for hunting, but from my experience, you can make it manageable if you pick lightweight optics like an AMG, 5-20US, 624i, etc. And get a good sling or eberlestock pack.
Covert is as Covert does.
Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.
With that budget the world is pretty much your oyster. In addition to a swithbarrel AI, consider a Barrett MRAD
I can't comment on the AI's or DTA's , but they have a huge following, must be doing something right!
As mentioned above, don't forget to leave a little room in the budget for glass , rings and a mount , not to mention ammo.
An excellent scope will maximize a rifles ability . A sub par scope will only hold you back .
As mentioned above, don't forget to leave a little room in the budget for glass , rings and a mount , not to mention ammo.
An excellent scope will maximize a rifles ability . A sub par scope will only hold you back .
If you like the idea of a custom, and also want a switch barrel setup, may I suggest the BigHorn TL3 action in combination with the West Texas Ordnance Switchlug?
I'm eventually planning to go this route when funds allow. Basically you get all the benefits of a custom 700-based action (interchangeable triggers, stocks, chassis, mags, scope rail cant etc...) and with the Switchlug, you can swap barrels out with nothing but an allen wrench, just like an Accuracy International Rifle. That way, you can quickly swap barrels AND stocks in under five minutes with nothing but your hands and an allen wrench.
With DTA, AI, and Barret, you are stuck with the stock. But if you like it, then by all means, can't go wrong there! I personally find them all a liiiittle bit heavy for hunting. DTA is the lightest though.
I'm eventually planning to go this route when funds allow. Basically you get all the benefits of a custom 700-based action (interchangeable triggers, stocks, chassis, mags, scope rail cant etc...) and with the Switchlug, you can swap barrels out with nothing but an allen wrench, just like an Accuracy International Rifle. That way, you can quickly swap barrels AND stocks in under five minutes with nothing but your hands and an allen wrench.
With DTA, AI, and Barret, you are stuck with the stock. But if you like it, then by all means, can't go wrong there! I personally find them all a liiiittle bit heavy for hunting. DTA is the lightest though.
If you really have 10K to spend, don't neuter a gun by making it do two different tasks. Get two different guns. If you want to shoot game, especially elk, at long ranges, you want a rifle in the 300WM class or even a 338 in a weight that you can carry. I have a 300WM Sendero and am building a 12-13lb 338 Edge for that purpose. If you want a target gun to punch paper and steel out to long ranges to hone your skills, and do so without excessive recoil, you want a different gun in 6mm-6.5mm-7mm class. I have a 243AI (antelope/deer gun) and am building a dedicated F-class 284Win for those purposes. The 243AI cost about $2000 to build, with glass, on a Savage, shoots 1/3 MOA.
My 338 Edge (build in progress) and 284Win (just starting build), put together, MAY approach 10K. WITH glass. Both are on custom actions, and both built to maximize performance....within realistic range...meaning it's not necessarily the most expensive components but I don't expect performance to be compromised.
You don't need a $2500 scope, pretty much for anything. My 338 Edge will wear an $1100 Burris XTR II. My F-class gun will wear a $1500 Vortex Golden Eagle, and that scope was recommended by a member of the national team so I think he knows what he is talking about. For hunting guns, even dialing turrets, there are plenty of reliable scopes in the $800-$1200 range.
My 338 Edge (build in progress) and 284Win (just starting build), put together, MAY approach 10K. WITH glass. Both are on custom actions, and both built to maximize performance....within realistic range...meaning it's not necessarily the most expensive components but I don't expect performance to be compromised.
You don't need a $2500 scope, pretty much for anything. My 338 Edge will wear an $1100 Burris XTR II. My F-class gun will wear a $1500 Vortex Golden Eagle, and that scope was recommended by a member of the national team so I think he knows what he is talking about. For hunting guns, even dialing turrets, there are plenty of reliable scopes in the $800-$1200 range.
The cool thing about a quick barrel change set up is: 1) You can save money and get used to 1 high end optic. 2) you're not too lazy to lament setting it up in the barrel vise etc. You can literally pop a barrel out in 1 minute with an allen wrench on a DTA, AI, or the new WTO switchlug. SSS further elaborated on the Bighorn/MPA set up I suggested by adding the switchlug you can swap barrels quick, and Josh from PVA can turn barrels without the action in hand.
The AI is a benchmark of reliability and field ruggedness, and the AXMC is awesome in cartridge versatility, but in my opinion gets too heavy for hunting, especially in elk country. You can get a DTA under 13 lbs with scope (with the right barrel contour). It can do 223 to 338, and is shorter to boot for hauling around. I really like my SRS, but if I didn't go that route, I'd do the switchlug on a bighorn in an MPA lite and have a carbon barrel for hunting and a target barrel for everything else. You might even have cash left over to buy the MPA target stock, but heck then you might as well just build a 2nd rifle. I like all the features of the MPA simply because you get so much for your dollar vs a Manners or McMillan, but those are great options too.
The AI is a benchmark of reliability and field ruggedness, and the AXMC is awesome in cartridge versatility, but in my opinion gets too heavy for hunting, especially in elk country. You can get a DTA under 13 lbs with scope (with the right barrel contour). It can do 223 to 338, and is shorter to boot for hauling around. I really like my SRS, but if I didn't go that route, I'd do the switchlug on a bighorn in an MPA lite and have a carbon barrel for hunting and a target barrel for everything else. You might even have cash left over to buy the MPA target stock, but heck then you might as well just build a 2nd rifle. I like all the features of the MPA simply because you get so much for your dollar vs a Manners or McMillan, but those are great options too.
^ Yup! Just be careful though, the Bighorn has an integral lug, and the Switchlug adds even more thickness to that. So you'll have to find a chassis/stock that can accommodate the size of basically 2 recoil lugs (approx .6" thick!) unless there's another way I'm not aware of.
The tough part is finding the stock/chassis that can accommodate for additional lugs. XLR for example, can only support up to like a .425 ish or something size lug. I found that Manners can though, so that opens up a lot of options just right there, and I'm sure there are a couple of chassis manufacturers that allow custom inlets that will work, so you are still ahead of an AI/MRAD/DT in terms of stock/chassis choices.
I'm not sure if MPA can, but you could always call em' up.
The tough part is finding the stock/chassis that can accommodate for additional lugs. XLR for example, can only support up to like a .425 ish or something size lug. I found that Manners can though, so that opens up a lot of options just right there, and I'm sure there are a couple of chassis manufacturers that allow custom inlets that will work, so you are still ahead of an AI/MRAD/DT in terms of stock/chassis choices.
I'm not sure if MPA can, but you could always call em' up.
260/300WM/338?
Buy a Barrett MRAD with those conversion kits.
Buy a Barrett MRAD with those conversion kits.
It's really seems optimal to have one rifle cover two different applications, but for my own personal preference/application I found it impossible. My paper puncher in 6.5 I'm building is heavy, plain and simple. I want something heavy and comfortable. My hunting rig I built a custom 300 win mag with a #3b. I can move with it and come up quick if I need to let one fly. The barrel is perfect for me personally. I can haul it around and it's a little heavier than your standard sporter. I'm confident I can stay on target with quick follow up shots if needed. In the end we all need something different, my only advice is if you're going after elk out to 400 yards I would recommend a magnum 7mm up. Can you take elk with smaller projectiles? For sure. My grandfather took them with a 270. He was smooth on the trigger though...super calm demeanor and ultimately lights out even in weather. That's not me. I want powder and a heavy 30 cal bullet to make up for my inconsistencies. I'm not risking great meat and a big rack because I could of used more gun. Not worth coming up short IMO.
For 10K? An AT with a gen 2 razor and a Tikka T3 in your favorite hunting caliber with one of the new razor hd hunting scopes. And a bottle of good whiskey to celebrate!
If you have that kind of budget, I would do a custom build. If you really want to shoot long range, reloading really helps with accuracy and you need to build the gun off the bullet and brass you are wanting to use. So many people get a custom build rifle and then you see them shooting factory Ammo. This is only if you really want to shoot long range accurately.
+1
I also agree that trying to shoehorn 2 different applications into a single rifle is possible, but not optimal.
Given your budget, I don't think it would hurt you to get two very good quality rifles and scopes for two specific applications over a single rifle sub-optimal at two.
If you don't hunt often, you can record your scope adjustments and rezero between swapping the optic between rifles.
Lightweight rifle in .300WM for hunting that is accurate but can be banged around a bit.
+
Anything you want in 6.5 that fits your target/benchrest/PRS needs.
I am going to concur with much of what has been said.
Multi-purpose rifles means you are making significant compromises somewhere.
For a long range Elk rifle, the .300 Norma Mag would be hard to beat, though there is much to be said for the tried and true .300 WM and 7RM. It depends on your definition of long range.
For paper punching, the 6.5 CM is hard to beat.
Keep in mind, these cartridges are hard on barrels, even the 6.5 burns throats significantly faster that the good old .308.
This will require regular barrel swaps (depending on the number of rounds shot).
Keep in mind, just because you have a rifle and scope combo capable of making an 800 yard shot on an elk, this doesn't mean YOU are capable of making a 800 yard shot on an elk.
My suggestion is this:
Build a training/paper punching rifle and a dedicated long range hunting rifle.
This can be done while still falling into your price bracket.
For example, you can buy a Shilen rifle for 3500-3800 dollars.
Equip both rifles with the same stock, same trigger option, same magazine option.
If you ended up with rifles at the top of the price list, 3800, that is 7600 dollars.
This leaves you 2400 dollars for one excellent scope and rings,
Or, you could outfit each with the very good DMR II, which would put you a few hundred over the 10,000 limit.
Chamber your trainer in .308 for very long barrel life, relatively cheap components and ease of shooting. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more.
The Shilen action is made by Stiller, they are very nice actions. Shilen barrels are very good, their triggers are pretty awesome.
You could order barreled actions only and stock both rifles with Grayboe stocks (very nice stocks) and save a few hundred.
Multi-purpose rifles means you are making significant compromises somewhere.
For a long range Elk rifle, the .300 Norma Mag would be hard to beat, though there is much to be said for the tried and true .300 WM and 7RM. It depends on your definition of long range.
For paper punching, the 6.5 CM is hard to beat.
Keep in mind, these cartridges are hard on barrels, even the 6.5 burns throats significantly faster that the good old .308.
This will require regular barrel swaps (depending on the number of rounds shot).
Keep in mind, just because you have a rifle and scope combo capable of making an 800 yard shot on an elk, this doesn't mean YOU are capable of making a 800 yard shot on an elk.
My suggestion is this:
Build a training/paper punching rifle and a dedicated long range hunting rifle.
This can be done while still falling into your price bracket.
For example, you can buy a Shilen rifle for 3500-3800 dollars.
Equip both rifles with the same stock, same trigger option, same magazine option.
If you ended up with rifles at the top of the price list, 3800, that is 7600 dollars.
This leaves you 2400 dollars for one excellent scope and rings,
Or, you could outfit each with the very good DMR II, which would put you a few hundred over the 10,000 limit.
Chamber your trainer in .308 for very long barrel life, relatively cheap components and ease of shooting. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more.
The Shilen action is made by Stiller, they are very nice actions. Shilen barrels are very good, their triggers are pretty awesome.
You could order barreled actions only and stock both rifles with Grayboe stocks (very nice stocks) and save a few hundred.
As mentioned above one rifle really doesnt fit both uses, howevr if you are set on getting one rifle I would remember you will be punching paper or banging steel about 80-85 % of the time and hauling the rifle around for that elk shot at most 15%. So I would weight my choices toward a precision rifle that could be hunted with in the fall. I have a precision 308 that I shoot steel with a bunch but took a really nice Muley with a year ago. My neighbors 6.5 Creedmor out shoots it at distance, but I would not hunt elk with a 6.5. I also have a 300 WM Mausingfield that is the best precision action I have handled and is extremely accurate out to distances approaching a mile in good conditions. But at 14# I do not consider it a backpack hunting rifle.
Good luck and enjoy building your new rifle.
Good luck and enjoy building your new rifle.
I have yet to meet anyone that is unhappy with their Mausingfield action.
I really appreciate all the info. I'm going to do two different rifles. My local guy gave me a good deal on a Howa 1500 HCR in 6.5 Creedmoor. Trying to decide on a scope now. I was leaning toward a Vortex AMG but it looks like the wait times are outrageous so I'll probably be going with a razor hd gen II for now. Figure I'll use this at the local 500 yard range and then get a .300 win mag or norma mag or something else later.
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Are you reloading? If yes, maybe look into 6.5x47 Lapua, if no I'd say 6.5CM just because all the factory ammo available for the 6.5 Creedmoor. With the Warner Tool flatline 6.5 122grain projectiles, you can make it to 2000 yards supersonic. Either would be great for a short action.
Since you have a Sandman, 300WM is a great idea. 28 Nosler might be worth looking into.
Your budget is big enough you might swing two nice rifles. I'm waiting on an MPA short action just because I want to comfortably shoot it a ton, and with the right bullet, I can try to take it to 2000 yards. For hunting, Christensen Arms could be worth checking out.
One day, after doing all your research, I'm sure it will become clear to you which direction you should go.
Scott
Since you have a Sandman, 300WM is a great idea. 28 Nosler might be worth looking into.
Your budget is big enough you might swing two nice rifles. I'm waiting on an MPA short action just because I want to comfortably shoot it a ton, and with the right bullet, I can try to take it to 2000 yards. For hunting, Christensen Arms could be worth checking out.
One day, after doing all your research, I'm sure it will become clear to you which direction you should go.
Scott
So, I've got my initial package figured out for now.
Howa 1500 HCR in 6.5 Creedmoor Vortex Razor HD Gen II 3-18x50 milrad
20 MOA base
I put my money in the glass as I hear is the proper way to go. Figure I'll use this then get my bigger one later. What do y'all think?
Howa 1500 HCR in 6.5 Creedmoor Vortex Razor HD Gen II 3-18x50 milrad
20 MOA base
I put my money in the glass as I hear is the proper way to go. Figure I'll use this then get my bigger one later. What do y'all think?
That will be a fun rifle. You have enough budget left to get something more powerful if you choose. I'm not at all anti-big gun for ELR. If you're going to reload, go big!
If you insist on a single rifle then an AXMC is probably a good choice. From experience, I prefer to keep my hunting and target rifles separate. I usually like something lighter for hunting. Maybe I'm just getting old, but humping all that weight sucks. I try to reduce the weight I have to carry around anywhere and anyway I can.
Considered grabbing a custom short action and getting either a magnum bolt or bolt head (if you went with an action such as a TL3)? You can then run the 6.5 until you're ready to hunt. Then you just swap the bolt/head and screw your 300WSM barrel on 
Just buy an Accuracy International straight off. The AT is a bargain. AX is mutts nuts. You will end up with one anyway so you may as well avoid all the other crap on the way...
A buddy of mine shoots his AX at PRS shoots and loves it. If you can swing the AX, go for it. The AT is no slouch either.
