Training Courses Recommended precision courses?

[Nik H]

I'm in the lower New England area, but I'd rather go somewhere that is known and specializes in training long range. Hence was why I brought up SAAM; apparently they have tons of difference ranges to set up scenarios and reiterate points.

I live in RI and drive to upstate NY for Curt's Long gun training long range class....Curt makes it an excellent experience both during the course and during the evening. He is a detailed and patient instructor and truly ensures that students get the proper instruction. Facilities are nothing short of first rate.

 

[The Durk]

we'll be opening our training facility in dalton NH in spring 2019, hoping to take Precision in New England to the next level.

If it’s where I think it is, I’ll drive from Pittsburgh PA to take a class there.

 

[Ruggedtouch]

Anyone take the PR 2 course at Core Shooting Solutions? They have the course coming up in June and I’ve heard good things about them but can’t find anything in the way of reviews by members on the board.

 

[seansmd]

If it’s where I think it is, I’ll drive from Pittsburgh PA to take a class there.

I will fly back to NH for a class as well, used to live in southern NH for 20 years. Where you form in Pittsburgh, I was born in Brookline, then lived in Upper St Claire when I was very young.

 

[The Durk]

I live about 25 miles North West of the city. Monaca, PA. It's just easier to say I'm from Pittsburgh.

 

[seansmd]

I live about 25 miles North West of the city. Monaca, PA. It's just easier to say I'm from Pittsburgh.

yes, have family up in Wexford and Mars, its just the Burgh. Used to say the same when I lived in southern NH, .... from Boston.

 

[The Durk]

I'm in Wexford almost every other week!

 

[VanJoe]

Anyone take the PR 2 course at Core Shooting Solutions? They have the course coming up in June and I’ve heard good things about them but can’t find anything in the way of reviews by members on the board.

I took the PR 1 course there a couple of years ago. Had Ryan Castle and Bryan Morgan as the instructors. I thought it was a good course. Didn't have anything to compare it to as I was a complete beginner. Most of the issues with the course were self made. The only thing I didn't particularly like was the class size. But that is probably why they brought the second instructor on (Ryan).

 

[Precisiondada]

I took the PR 1 course there a couple of years ago. Had Ryan Castle and Bryan Morgan as the instructors. I thought it was a good course. Didn't have anything to compare it to as I was a complete beginner. Most of the issues with the course were self made. The only thing I didn't particularly like was the class size. But that is probably why they brought the second instructor on (Ryan).

Can u go more into the “self-made” issues? I’m considering heading up there for a course once the new rifle is finished...

 

[VanJoe]

Can u go more into the “self-made” issues? I’m considering heading up there for a course once the new rifle is finished...

Took the two day Intro course. As a beginner it was a lot of basic sh!t I didn’t prepare right. I had asked ahead of time if a shooting mat was needed and they said not really, just user preference. I definitely should have brought one. It was uncomfortable up in the shooting tower without one as well as on the mid-range lawn area where we did some chrono work and more intermediate range shooting to build a bare bones dope card. It added up after two days. I didn’t have the new rifle set up very well especially the damn cheek rest. I made the mistake of bringing a lot of different ammo when I only should have brought one brand to train & learn with, or two at most. Impacted consistency. For some reason my damn phone decided then to have a problem with battery drain (probably because hard to get signal up there) so I couldn’t use the ballistic apps on there (turned out to be a damn CVS app running amok if I remember right). The weather was complete sh!t so I didn’t want to break out the new tablet to use the apps on there. So that was an issue. I didn’t have proper rain gear. There isn’t really any supply shops by me so I just bought a cheap Caldwell hand rest bag. It was horrible and hard to adjust with. I’ve since bought a couple of nice bags off the net now that I know what works (from taking the class). Of course they didn’t mention till the end of the class about having extra bags that could be borrowed. P!ssed me off, but I could/should have (thought to) asked sooner I guess. Wish I had waited to take the course until I had a suppressor.

The main things I didn’t like was the class size. Had to have been 16-18, can’t remember. I wrote a lengthy review on here at the time but don’t see it. Maybe it was on the old Hide site. Thankfully the class had a lot of people that didn’t need to be in a beginner class so they didn’t need much one on one guidance like me. Being a beginner I found it hard up in the shooting tower (the most enjoyable shooting of the weekend) to remember the distances. I didn’t have a range finder at the time. I was in the very first position in the line and all the way down at the other end was where they had the distances listed. They should have had it throughout the shooting tower for people to see, or at least have it in the course slides which we easily & conveniently could have brought up there with use from the classroom. The class size made it way too cramped in the shooting tower too. 4 less people would have made a big difference. Of course 1/3 of those people probably didn’t pay anywhere near the tuition I paid as they were from the bases a hour to the south.

I thought the two instructors I listed were both very good. Although I would have liked a little different material and more of others, I think they probably covered what all should have been covered in a two day Intro course. I would take another class there again. But my next course will either be the two day wind reading class with Crawford in NC or one of those courses out at BSR in NM. Shooting & learning in that terrain looks like a lot more fun. Will be more enjoyable now too now that I have a suppressor and the right gear, but that was good learning from an Intro course.

 

[ForgeValley]

Anymore info on this course?

two day wind reading class with Crawford in NC

 

[VanJoe]

Anymore info on this course?

Here you go:
http://www.therangecomplex.com/two-day-wind-reading-for-mid-and-long-range-shooting.html

It isn't on the new 2019 schedule yet but if like last year he had one in April and the other around Sep/Oct. I just couldn't make it to either one but hope to this April if one is scheduled. They said on Facebook a couple of weeks back that they were looking into his competition schedule to see what they could get scheduled. They also said last year when I asked, that the course is capped at 6 people. Which I really like.

 

[ForgeValley]

Here you go:
http://www.therangecomplex.com/two-day-wind-reading-for-mid-and-long-range-shooting.html

It isn't on the new 2019 schedule yet but if like last year he had one in April and the other around Sep/Oct. I just couldn't make it to either one but hope to this April if one is scheduled. They said on Facebook a couple of weeks back that they were looking into his competition schedule to see what they could get scheduled. They also said last year when I asked, that the course is capped at 6 people. Which I really like.

Awesome, thanks! I will send them an email saying I am interested, maybe that will help get it on the calendar.

 

[VanJoe]

Awesome, thanks! I will send them an email saying I am interested, maybe that will help get it on the calendar.

One thing that might impact one's decision is I think their range only goes out to 600 yards. So if looking for greater distances then maybe not the right course.

 

[ForgeValley]

One thing that might impact one's decision is I think their range only goes out to 600 yards. So if looking for greater distances then maybe not the right course.

Yeah, I saw that, not ideal but still that's probably far enough, if I bring the 308 or maybe the 9mm.

 

[frost1235]

Dalton NH

Oh my god that is awesome!

 

[Spdy]

we'll be opening our training facility in dalton NH in spring 2019, hoping to take Precision in New England to the next level.

I live in southern NE and would be interested. Make sure you post when open.

 

[OLD308]

Well guess I’m the lone wolf here again. I attended the Accuracy First course. Since any-and all things Accuracy First are frowned on or cussed at here, no point in relating my experience. I’ll be at the Rifles Only 1-2 class in March. I’m sure there will be some intrest as to that experience. I’ll keep notes and try to answer any question anyone has after the fact. I have no personal, financial, or aligence to either. Just like learning.

 

[Long Range 338]

Well guess I’m the lone wolf here again. I attended the Accuracy First course. Since any-and all things Accuracy First are frowned on or cussed at here, no point in relating my experience. I’ll be at the Rifles Only 1-2 class in March. I’m sure there will be some intrest as to that experience. I’ll keep notes and try to answer any question anyone has after the fact. I have no personal, financial, or aligence to either. Just like learning.

I would like to hear about your A1 experience.... I haven’t heard from anybody specifically but I assume they focus on the Horus/Tremor reticles and holding vs dialing? I believe a well rounded person can make up their own mind on what works best for them in their needs.

 

[OLD308]

I sent you a PM. Don’t want to derail the tread.’

 

[Phil G]

Rifles Only for the PR 1-2 course. Jacob does a super job of teaching fundamentals. I took the course, learned a great deal and was very impressed with his teaching and facility.
Phil G

 

[VanJoe]

I sent you a PM. Don’t want to derail the tread.’

How's it derailing this thread? I'd like to see a review of them. Their site isn't the greatest so wouldn't mind hearing more in this thread about recommended PR courses.

 

[OLD308]

Out of respect for our host. I don’t want to be viewed as a trouble maker. PM me and I’ll send you what I sent long range 338.

 

[frost1235]

Oh heck no I wouldn't mind. This is very relevant to the thread.

New long distance range with the probability that instructors wil be there?

Do update with info here if possible!

 

[BMerrick]

Rifles Only Precision Rifle 1 &2. All business, no fluff. Will definitely be taking it again.

 

[lhbts]

I just got back from LR1 at Blue Steel Ranch with Brian Whalen / Colorado Precision Rifle (cprifle.com) and would *highly* recommend it based on my experience. The facilities are remarkable as far as terrain, target layout, areas with tricky winds, etc. All of the students remarked multiple times a day "I wish I lived closer to this place."

Brian will make sure you're in the right class (LR1/2/..), but also make sure that every student gets what they need through not only instruction, but really 1:1 coaching the whole time. I was easily the most inexperienced shooter in the class and we had some very experienced shooters. Everybody learned more about field shooting (positions, wind calls, data setup, Kestrel usage, ranging, target management), gun setup, improved usage of optics, spotting - at appropriate levels for everyone there.

He is incredibly knowledgeable and experienced. Personally I attended b/c I wanted to establish solid fundamentals. Brian ensured we all had solid fundamentals along with diagnostics to continually improve. TBH, I'm stunned with how much we covered and how much I retained.

 

[VanJoe]

I just got back from LR1 at Blue Steel Ranch with Brian Whalen / Colorado Precision Rifle (cprifle.com) and would *highly* recommend it based on my experience. The facilities are remarkable as far as terrain, target layout, areas with tricky winds, etc. All of the students remarked multiple times a day "I wish I lived closer to this place."

Brian will make sure you're in the right class (LR1/2/..), but also make sure that every student gets what they need through not only instruction, but really 1:1 coaching the whole time. I was easily the most inexperienced shooter in the class and we had some very experienced shooters. Everybody learned more about field shooting (positions, wind calls, data setup, Kestrel usage, ranging, target management), gun setup, improved usage of optics, spotting - at appropriate levels for everyone there.

He is incredibly knowledgeable and experienced. Personally I attended b/c I wanted to establish solid fundamentals. Brian ensured we all had solid fundamentals along with diagnostics to continually improve. TBH, I'm stunned with how much we covered and how much I retained.

Definitely one I'm looking to attend. But was it enjoyable weather to shoot there at this time of year? So why were the "very experienced shooters" in a LR1 class? Just curious.

 

[lhbts]

Definitely one I'm looking to attend. But was it enjoyable weather to shoot there at this time of year? So why were the "very experienced shooters" in a LR1 class? Just curious.

Fair questions. The weather was ... varied. We had 30 mph winds on day 2, but we were all still hitting lots of steel (it was primarily a headwind). It started cool, but no problem b/c the sun was shining. It warmed up quickly each day. Though I'm sure it could have snowed. IMHO, that's part of learning to shoot in the field, but I know that cold weather isn't for everyone.

As for my fellow classmates. A few had a lot of time behind a pistol, one was an avid hunter since a child, including lots of bow hunting. I'll just say the need for input on their rifle handling and recoil management wasn't where time was spent, beyond discussing finer points and optimizations. But it's all relative. For example, nobody in the class has competed in PRS, etc.

That said, everyone in LR1 regardless of background shooting got a ton re: evaluating targets, wind calls, rifle setup, etc. Their shooting was evident in their group size during the first day when we all zeroed our scopes. That said, shooting from a mat/bench isn't field shooting. Brian made sure those at the experienced end were challenged with more difficult alternate positions and techniques. One reason Brian insists on talking to folks is to make sure they're in the right class. So while we had a spectrum of experience, I'm confident we all left better and extremely happy we took his course.

Hopefully that helps clarify, but happy to answer any questions here or DM.

 

[VanJoe]

Fair questions. The weather was ... varied. We had 30 mph winds on day 2, but we were all still hitting lots of steel (it was primarily a headwind). It started cool, but no problem b/c the sun was shining. It warmed up quickly each day. Though I'm sure it could have snowed. IMHO, that's part of learning to shoot in the field, but I know that cold weather isn't for everyone.

As for my fellow classmates. A few had a lot of time behind a pistol, one was an avid hunter since a child, including lots of bow hunting. I'll just say the need for input on their rifle handling and recoil management wasn't where time was spent, beyond discussing finer points and optimizations. But it's all relative. For example, nobody in the class has competed in PRS, etc.

That said, everyone in LR1 regardless of background shooting got a ton re: evaluating targets, wind calls, rifle setup, etc. Their shooting was evident in their group size during the first day when we all zeroed our scopes. That said, shooting from a mat/bench isn't field shooting. Brian made sure those at the experienced end were challenged with more difficult alternate positions and techniques. One reason Brian insists on talking to folks is to make sure they're in the right class. So while we had a spectrum of experience, I'm confident we all left better and extremely happy we took his course.

Hopefully that helps clarify, but happy to answer any questions here or DM.

Ok, thanks. Hopefully he will add some classes for NM.

 

[OLD308]

Ok, I completed the Rifles Only precision rifle 1 and 2 course last week. Short answer as to my experience, book a class as soon as you can. Long answer below.

4.5 days of shooting, 293 rounds fired, only 5 lost cases. I in no way feel cheated as to the lower than expected round count over the 4.5 days. If it was said once it was said a million times, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. The class is very laid back with ample opportunity for questions and assistance. Safety was never sacrificed for any reason. Jacob was professional, polite, and a student of adult education. The class room aspect of the training was limited to safety briefs, and a quick talk on the fundamentals for the days courses. Fundamentals never changed, but we needed reminding as the course of fire often left you wondering how to apply them.

Interesting conversations were a daily event. Stepping on sacred cows of the shooting world were not just covered, but tested. Humbling test of your perceived skill insured you hung on every word Jacob said. Lot of guys though their 6 or 6.5 barrel burners would provide an unbeatable advantage. That was defiantly not the case. Fundamentals put you on top, not you caliber, rifle, scope, bipod, bag, ect. Lindy provided the comic relief through random thoughts spoken during perplexing moments or silence.


Tips for success

1. Don't make Lindy mad before he calls wind for you.
2. Take clothing for every possible weather condition.
3. Bring back up equipment.
4. If you cry when your rifle (tool) gets scratched, chose a different class.
5. Buy the 2 DVDs they have available and practice before going.

The class is not cheap. Travel, lodging, ammo, and food adds up in a hurry. You could buy a lot of ammo and range time for what this cost. I firmly believe you are still money ahead taking the class. First, its unlikely that you have experience in all the situations they put you through. Secondly, having the value of dry fire beat into your trigger finger will save you a lot. Hope this helps.

 

[maverickasu]

Ok, I completed the Rifles Only precision rifle 1 and 2 course last week. Short answer as to my experience, book a class as soon as you can. Long answer below.

4.5 days of shooting, 293 rounds fired, only 5 lost cases. I in no way feel cheated as to the lower than expected round count over the 4.5 days. If it was said once it was said a million times, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. The class is very laid back with ample opportunity for questions and assistance. Safety was never sacrificed for any reason. Jacob was professional, polite, and a student of adult education. The class room aspect of the training was limited to safety briefs, and a quick talk on the fundamentals for the days courses. Fundamentals never changed, but we needed reminding as the course of fire often left you wondering how to apply them.

Interesting conversations were a daily event. Stepping on sacred cows of the shooting world were not just covered, but tested. Humbling test of your perceived skill insured you hung on every word Jacob said. Lot of guys though their 6 or 6.5 barrel burners would provide an unbeatable advantage. That was defiantly not the case. Fundamentals put you on top, not you caliber, rifle, scope, bipod, bag, ect. Lindy provided the comic relief through random thoughts spoken during perplexing moments or silence.


Tips for success

1. Don't make Lindy mad before he calls wind for you.
2. Take clothing for every possible weather condition.
3. Bring back up equipment.
4. If you cry when your rifle (tool) gets scratched, chose a different class.
5. Buy the 2 DVDs they have available and practice before going.

The class is not cheap. Travel, lodging, ammo, and food adds up in a hurry. You could buy a lot of ammo and range time for what this cost. I firmly believe you are still money ahead taking the class. First, its unlikely that you have experience in all the situations they put you through. Secondly, having the value of dry fire beat into your trigger finger will save you a lot. Hope this helps.

Glad you mentioned the DVDs, I was wondering if they were worth it while I save up some scratch to take the class

 

[87stang]

Take a look at Badlands Tactical. No gimicks, just good old fundamentals of marksmanship. It’s a great place to learn to read wind and mirage due to the landscape. The instructors are fantastic, all very accomplished individuals. They have classes from basic long range all the way through LE SWAT classes. They also just installed a new moving mover range with target at 100, 200, and 300 yards. You’ll get excellent training and be treated like family. The class includes lodging and the instructors make themselves available after hours to answer question, assist with rifle repairs and adjustments, or just sit around visit.

 

[frost1235]

The amount of info you guys have given me is INSANE.

I know for sure I'll be upgrading to get the online training on the hide. After listening to Frank's podcasts, I'd sell my soul never mind $15 a month for his knowledge.

I did take the Precision Scoped Rifle 101 at the Sig Academy, and I learned a great deal. As someone mentioned, its very much gear towards static tactical/F-Class type shooting. I'll be taking the 102 course in April, and more than likely I'll be checking out a Ridgeline course due to it's proximity and now a public range close by where I can shoot above 600 yards without major logistical requirements.

Due to the required funding and logistics, I'd like to ultimately do a course with Frank or at K&M once I gain a firm understanding of long range marksmanship. Hopefully, at this point, I'd be at a level where I'd be hunting for answers to the minutia of this discipline.

I'm fully capable of shooting one holes out to 25 yards with a pistol and keeping 1/3 to 3/4 groups on rifles, given no time limit. But with the amount of variables to account for at long range, I was pretty lost. I was planning on spending big bucks to get gear and ammo to compensate for my lack of knowledge. But from what you guys told me and what I learned at the course, I'd rather put my efforts and money into gaining knowledge, experience, and skills before I delve into changing my baseline/current set-up.

Again, thank you all for all the information, and definitely don't stop if you have more to input!! I know there are tons more people like me who find a certain zen in long range precision, but have nothing but forum posts, articles, and sporadic videos to try to glean the same information a single training course could give you.

 

[REAPER#1]

Law enforcement sniper training at Oak Grove Technologies.

 

[Big Ern]

Here is a vote for Max Ordinate Academy (Tyler Hughes) in California.

Great instructors, great facility, great programs. And, very reasonably priced.

 

[Aqua Mark]

Tyler - Max Ordinate in CA https://www.maxordinate.com/
Terry Cross - 1 MIL Right, he is in LA but teaches different places https://www.1milrt.com/
Erick (Gunny Findley) - 7 Foxtrot in TX https://www.7foxtrot.com/trainingcomplex/
Paul - Frontline Defense Range, NC https://frontlinedefenseusa.com/
K&M and CORE also have solid reputations

 

[OverWatching]

Agree with above on Max Ordinate. Tyler was amazing.

 

[frost1235]

I committed to K&M and I do not regret anything. With the Sig classes and K&M my belt, the biggest thing would be getting a long distance range to practice on. (Already applied to a few )


Without a doubt next year I'm doing a Mile High course. There are so many instructors, but Frank has the benefit of having constant windy conditions. Once I've cleared his course, I'll be alternating between K&M's competition prep course and Frank's course to keep my skill set up and get constant coaching to avoid plateaus.


Other than that, I'll be looking at Rifles Only, and other places in the distant future. More so specialized training when I need it. Thank you guys for all the help, and I hope anyone rlse interested on bettering their marksmanship also got something outta this!

 

[HammerForged]

Can anyone recommend a course/instructor/school toward Vegas for long range shooting? I really want to get into PRS but the info seems overwhelming. I feel like I need to have someone walk me through the basics.

 

[frost1235]

It's a 12 hour drive, but in my opinion and Joel's from Precision Rifle Network,
Mile High shooting and K&M precision rifle.

Frank Galli's class at Mile High is awesome for pure fundamentals and a shit ton of wind work. If you want a firm foundation in JUST precision rifle, this is your start point.

Shannon Kay's class at K&M gives you a training regiment/mindset of serious precision marksmen. In the comprehensive precision rifle course, you'll get hands on with data accumulation, range estimation, hold overs, movers, a shit ton of positional, and a 4 to 1 instructor ratio.


At this point and time, if you have you fundamentals down to a good degree, I'd suggest Shannon's comprehensive course, or his competition clinic course.

 

[sleeplz]

I'm not sure if I need training or not. I make hits out to 1k and dry fire practice a ton. At what point can a course help a guy like me that's already making hits within 1k?

 

[pmclaine]

I'm not sure if I need training or not. I make hits out to 1k and dry fire practice a ton. At what point can a course help a guy like me that's already making hits within 1k?

At any point.

I repeat classes just to get a knowledgeable set of eyes to take a look and tighten me up where I am slipping.

 

[ForgeValley]

Never stop training. You don't know what you don't know.

 

[VanJoe]

I'm not sure if I need training or not. I make hits out to 1k and dry fire practice a ton. At what point can a course help a guy like me that's already making hits within 1k?

That's when it is time to focus on the course content advertised, the course sizes so you get what you want, and the price so it isn't just some overpriced money grab by the instructor.

 

[dc451718]

K&M Precision in Finger Tn. We just finished their 2 day basic precision rifle course. Shannon is a true teacher whose goal is to teach you the skills you need to shoot accurately at any distance. (We shot to 1000)His staff of instructors were all top notch as well as great guys that you enjoy hanging out with. The facility was second to none. We are going back to take the advanced 4 day course as well as the pistol and carbine classes they offer. The cost of the class is a bargain for the quality training you receive. Highly recommend

 

[Frontlinedefenseusa]

My next course is Sept 21/22. Former Army/FBI Trained Sniper. I run the largest outdoor public shooting range in the Southeast and with over 1,500 members now my classes normally sell out from just my members. So rarely do I even post the classes. Here's a link for more information. Located in NC.

Intro to Long Range Rifle | Frontline Defense

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