Redding compitition dies

Furtaker_.223

Furtaker_.223

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 22, 2010
2,262
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58
Columbia IL
www.snipershide.com
#1
I am looking to upgrade my dies to redding. I am reloading for my Savage LRPV in .223, and want to go to a redding compitition die. I have seen that there are two types of dies. There is a A type and an S type. What is the difference? The dies I am using now, I am getting anywhere between .05-.10 runout. I am getting some pretty good groups with the dies I am using now. .325-.378
but I would like to try and get them down into the teen's. I am weighing the primers, the cases (trimmed) bullets, and then over all loaded cartridge. Can anyone help about the die, and am I missing something on the reload step. Oh, and these are all 55g Hornady v-max, 24.5g Varget Lapua match brass, and remington 7 1/2 benchrest and federal 205m primers.
Any help would be helpful........
 
#2
Re: Redding compitition dies

Type "S" use a bushing for sizine the neck that you can change out for tighter/looser tension.

The other is a solid die I believe....

Go with the type "s" and never look back...
 
#5
Re: Redding compitition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: furtaker_.223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... The dies I am using now, I am getting anywhere between .05-.10 runout. I am getting some pretty good groups with the dies I am using now. .325-.378
but I would like to try and get them down into the teen's. Can anyone help about the die, and am I missing something on the reload step. ........
</div></div>

The way your numbers are written you are saying you have between .050" (fifty thousandths) and .100" (one hundred thousandths). But I think you meant to say between .005 and .010". Before you spend a lot of money, try cleaning the inside the case necks with a bronze bore brush with steel wool worked into the bristled. RCBS sells a screwdriver type handle just for that. Twist while pushing in. Twist while pulling out. That should get you down to smaller numbers. Inspect the case mouths for carbon buildup. That's what you are trying to remove.

For a stock, out of the box rifle those are good groups.

Get the Redding Comp seater die first and see how things go.
 
#6
Re: Redding compitition dies

X2 on what Victor N TN said. The way the Redding Comp. seater guides the bullet is a much better setup than their standard seater die.
 
#7
Re: Redding compitition dies

It is the sizing die that carries the bushing. Mine is a three die set that has a separate body die.

A quick check shows that you can get the competition seater with standard or type-S sizing dies or all by itself.

The micrometer adjustment is a lot more useful on the seating die than on the sizing die.
 
#8
Re: Redding compitition dies

I use the "S" type full length bushing die. If you don't want to full length size just back the die out 1/4 of a turn. You don't have to buy a body die and if you want to F/L size, just adjust it down.

I have 2 of the comp die sets with the micrometer top sizers. FOR ME...it's wasted money. But I'm sure others can make use of them.
 
#9
Re: Redding compitition dies

Thanks for the great info, And yes victor I did mean to say .005-.010, I just ordered the comp. die, and I will see what group size I get then. I have been doing a lot of reading on the die's. I would like to get this down to the teen's. Now this is at 100 yards. I could not find these in a complete 3 die set, so I will order these one at a time. $$$$$$$$, I have soooo many componets to purchase. Just about there. And as far as out of the box rifle, I have a buddy so pissed, he bought a kimber, and he is having trouble with his groups, and I told him what I was shooting, He did not believe me till he came up for a weekend. He was amazed when he shot it on 4 of his groups. He now wants to buy one. He loves the trigger set at 8oz.
 
#10
Re: Redding compitition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the "S" type full length bushing die. If you don't want to full length size just back the die out 1/4 of a turn. You don't have to buy a body die and if you want to F/L size, just adjust it down.</div></div>

Yes, and no. With the large diameter factory chamber, I don't want to squish the body at all, a FL die backed out so that the sholder is not pushed back will still squish the case near the web (agreed its a little and probably represents no consequence).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 2 of the comp die sets with the micrometer top sizers. FOR ME...it's wasted money. But I'm sure others can make use of them. </div></div>

After getting the competition 3 die set, I also agree with this. The reloader who wants the micrometer on the sizer is the guy who wants to run experiments on how much of the neck is going to get sized. Probably more into benchrest than tactical. Me, I size the whole neck with the 0.002 tension bushing.
 
#12
Re: Redding compitition dies

I like the Competition seating die a lot. I upgraded from a regular RCBS set and the seating die seemed to make a significant difference in runout. The micrometer adjustment is very handy when loading different bullets or for different rifles.

I also like the Type S bushing dies. I can't prove it's helped with runout as much as the seater, but I really like the theory of no sizing button and controlling neck tension. I agree that the adjustment on the sizing die isn't very useful.

I wish I had started out with the Redding stuff, but I seem to have a hard time buying the best at first. I'm better at working my way up, so today I have lots of dies I don't use anymore that have been replaced by Redding. I haven't replaced all my Forster stuff yet, but I'm not buying any new dies that aren't Redding.
 
#13
Re: Redding compitition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the "S" type full length bushing die. If you don't want to full length size just back the die out 1/4 of a turn. You don't have to buy a body die and if you want to F/L size, just adjust it down.</div></div>

Yes, and no. With the large diameter factory chamber, I don't want to squish the body at all, a FL die backed out so that the sholder is not pushed back will still squish the case near the web (agreed its a little and probably represents no consequence).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 2 of the comp die sets with the micrometer top sizers. FOR ME...it's wasted money. But I'm sure others can make use of them. </div></div>

After getting the competition 3 die set, I also agree with this. The reloader who wants the micrometer on the sizer is the guy who wants to run experiments on how much of the neck is going to get sized. Probably more into benchrest than tactical. Me, I size the whole neck with the 0.002 tension bushing.</div></div>

Mitch, I always thought that Redding bushing sizers don't size the entire neck, at least the 'S' type doesn't. It goes about 3/4 of the way down. Is the comp neck sizer different?
 
#17
Re: Redding compitition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mitch, I always thought that Redding bushing sizers don't size the entire neck, at least the 'S' type doesn't. It goes about 3/4 of the way down. Is the comp neck sizer different? </div></div>

Mine (competition) goes down to the point where you can just barely see that the bushing does not touch the sholder. Probably 90%-ish.
 
#18
Re: Redding compitition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Type S set, competition shell holder set, TiN bushings, and carbide expander ball is a killer setup.

Just be sure to take the time to do proper die setup and brass prep. </div></div>

If you are using bushing dies AND an expander ball you are over working the case necks. But that's just my opinion.
 
#19
Re: Redding compitition dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Type S set, competition shell holder set, TiN bushings, and carbide expander ball is a killer setup.

Just be sure to take the time to do proper die setup and brass prep. </div></div>

If you are using bushing dies AND an expander ball you are over working the case necks. But that's just my opinion. </div></div>

Do you feel the neck or the expander ball is the better method?
 
#20
Re: Redding compitition dies

Myself, I prefer the bushing for most of my rifle ammo. But I still load a couple of calibers that I use the carbide expander ball with. They are for lever action and semi autos that are not that based as an accurate cartridge. But having said that... I also keep my old standard dies sets around. I was given a couple of hundred LC Match cases a while back. Several of the case necks had been mashed. I'm not sure if they had been stepped on or what. But the expander ball came in handy. I used a tapered punch to get them somewhere close then ran them in the die to straighten them out.
 
#21
Re: Redding compitition dies

I use the bushing with the carbide ball out of pure OCD.

My thinking (which was inspired by DOC76251's "Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload" thread) is that by using the carbide ball any imperfections that are transferred to the inside of the neck are uniformly distributed / removed by using the floating carbide ball.
The importance of the carbide ball over the button shouldn't be forgotten either.
By the ball floating, it is self centering just as the neck bushing is if it is setup properly.
This is one of things that make the Redding S type set so effective.
Not only are the necks uniform, they are also true.

I never push my practices on others, only offer up my method and the reasoning behind it.
My ES/ED numbers are consistently in the 1-3 fps range and I'm very pleased with the accuracy.

As far as overworking the brass goes, that's what annealing is for.
 
#22
Re: Redding compitition dies

If you call Redding, they will tell you that using the expander defeat the purpose of the bushing system.

I use the expander only if I want to turn the necks.

I bump the shoulder .002" for bolt and .004" for semi and use about .002" neck tension for both.

The expander might induce some runout.
 
#23
Re: Redding compitition dies

But, doesn't a bushing die less the expander ball to truely work the best that it can need to use neck turned brass???

I ask only because in my pee little brain if you don't neck turn and basicly true the necks any high spots or thick spots however you want to look at it is going to be pushed to the inside of the neck creating a thick spot on the inside???

Again using my pee brain logic the only way to truely use a bushing die to it's full potential you need to neck turn in order to have a trued same thickness neck all the way around.

I'm ok with being called a dumbass so if I am feel free to call me such but atleast give me the reasons why so I can learn.
smile.gif
 
#24
Re: Redding compitition dies

Before I turn any necks I run the cases over a "sizing" mandrel to move any thick places to the outside. If you have any signs of a "donut" on the inside, it will push part of it to the outside so it can be trimmed away when turning the necks. And something else to consider. Not all brands of expander mandrel are the same size. I got to where I use the one made by the company that made that particular neck turning tool.
 
#25
Re: Redding compitition dies

The amount of work needed on brass is in direct relation with the firearm you will use.

If you shoot an SKS, you will agree that any brass will do.

Using good brass to start with is a good way to reduce the work needed.

I spend less time working Lapua brass than I do for Win or Rem.
Don't get me wrong, Win and Rem are good, just need a little more attention.

For your Savage in 223, Win/Rem brass will work fine.
That's what I use for my AR achieving groups under 1/2moa
No brass weighing or neck turning.

223 Rem is a very forgiving caliber.
My ammo for less than 300 yds is done on a Dillon progressive press, 1/2moa all day

Start with the simple stuff for now and see what you get at 100yds.
When you have shot a few hundred reloads, than start playing with smaller details like neck turning.

Redding dies, Type "S" full length/match seater, a few Ti bushing and Competition Shell Holder are good choice to load high quality ammo in the most simplest way.

A little trick that helps the concentricity, use an O-ring under the lock ring of the resizing die.
It will allow the die to make full contact with the shell holder making it straight.
 
#26
Re: Redding compitition dies

I usually use the carbide ball, only because I am worried about tiny deformities that I cannot notice. I will start trying without the ball to see if I get any benefit out of it. I'd be surprised if it really made a noticeable difference in accuracy, but I am not knocking it at all.
 
#27
Re: Redding compitition dies

I also use the sizing mandrel. Size the neck down first with a bushing that will give around .003" tension. I use the Forster Precision Plus Bushing Bump Die(sizes the neck and bumps the shoulder back a bit without sizing the body) then inside neck mandrel. Sinclair offers turning mandrels that will give you .002" neck tension and expander mandrels that are .001" under bullet diameter. The floating ball does just that, it floats around. The solid mandrel gives very consistent neck tension and removes doughnuts.
 
#28
Re: Redding compitition dies

So, the type S seater die, has bushings as well as the sizer?
So what are the bushings for in the seater die? I just ordered my comp die, but I think it is series A. I hope I am fine with this. I do a lot of reloading, I have never used redding before, But as I read, I think I will never go back to any other die.
 
#29
Re: Redding compitition dies

The Type S SET has a bushing neck sizer die as well as the seater die.
Two entirely separate steps.

If you ordered just the competion seating die, that is what you got, just that die.
The Type S set comes with two or three dies.
Two dies for the full sizing set or three for the neck sizing set.
http://www.redding-reloading.com/uniquely-redding/119-competition-bullet-seating-die

By the way, the Redding Instant Indicator is pretty kick ass tool to have as well if you are trying to mfg the most precise ammunition that you can.
instantind2.jpg


Good luck, be patient , have fun, and stay safe...
 
#31
Re: Redding compitition dies

The Redding Instant indicator allows you to measure pretty much all the dimensions that you might need for that particular cartridge.
It allows you to:
- Sort bullets for uniformity
- Sort cases fired in two or more rifles
- Sort sized cases for uniformity
- Set up sizing die correctly
- Compare sized cases to fired cases to determine the amount of headspace
- Check uniformity of shoulder bump
- Check bullet seating depth uniformity
- Sort loaded ammunition for uniformity
- Determine when cases need trimming
- Check trim length uniformity

http://www.redding-reloading.com/uniquel...llet-comparator

This is not all that different from a standard comparator, but this one mounts in you press so that you get way more consistency in your measurements and can measure 100s of rounds in a short time.

Another tip is to get the Hornady Lock n' Load conversion kit if you are using a single stage press.
044099.jpg

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Conversion-Kit/
That way you can switch between dies in less than a second.
 
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