Reforming .277 Fury brass to Creedmoor

[Hondo1]

Has anyone had luck forming the hybrid .277 Fury brass to 6.5 or 6mm Creedmoor? Was the juice worth the squeeze? I’m thinking of putting together a 18 to 20” 6mm Creedmoor for coyotes, curious if reformed Fury brass could gain me back some speed from the shorter barrel.

 

[stello1001]

@45-90
Isn't this something you've done?

 

[DIBBS]

Post 21 I think

Rechamber 6.5 CM barrel to 6.5 PRC?

I have a Seekins Havak Hit with the quick change barrels and bolt heads. I wanted a 6.5 PRC Seekins barrel but they are OOS, but I do have a 6.5 CM barrel for it. Can a 6.5 CM barrel be rechambered to 6.5 PRC without being set back? If all I had to do is have my gunsmith run a PRC reamer in...

www.snipershide.com

 

[FuhQ]

I've reformed some of the Hybrid 6.8x51 military cases into .308 Win. So far, so good...

 

[45-90]

Has anyone has luck forming the hybrid .277 Fury brass to 6.5 or 6mm Creedmoor? Was the juice worth the squeeze? I’m thinking of putting together a 18 to 20” 6mm Creedmoor for coyotes, curious if reformed Fury brass could gain me back some speed from the shorter barrel.

Yes, I refrom hybrid 277 cases to many calibers. One being the 6.5 CM, I don't have a 6 CM, I'm a 6 Dasher fan.
I have described process in detail on this site, you can look it up it's been repeated many times to individuals.
I haven't ran varmint bullets in mine...just 140 gr, at 3100 fps & around 3000 fps for 147 gr, & 150 gr SMK is my favorite. Plus a few 153 Atips.
It's 24 factory barrel, but have a 26" Bartlein ready.
The powder that shines on the heavys is scarce, RL26...but a few others will get by.
As a varmint rifle with light bullets you lose velocity quickly with short barrels. Heavy bullets lose less velocity as barrels get shorter. So is it worth it for varmints, probably up to you, and your hunting style.
You'd probably gain a 100 to 150 fps, if that's important enough to mess with it is up to you.

I ran the 308 with hybrid cases with lighter bullets in different barrel lengths, but mostly in 22" Varmint SA, & 30" target long action.
110 gr 3400, 130 gr 3300 155/ 150 3100 in 22" (3200 in 30" ) 168 Berger 2960 fps
200 2800 fps (200 gr 2900 fps in 30")
225 gr 2709 in 30," in hybrid cases ....230 gr Atips 2620 fps in Lapua cases in 30"
If ya don't get the right powders the velocity doesn't go up as fast but the pressure does.

I run a 358 win over 3700 fps in a 16" AR 10 for close range varmints, same very light bullet over 2600 fps in 9mm 16" AR 15 ...inside a 100 yds and 33 rds to do it....the 9 mm bunny slayer extraordinaire, don't even have to worry about losing cases and no hybrid cases needed.

 

[st1650]

Yes, I refrom hybrid 277 cases to many calibers. One being the 6.5 CM, I don't have a 6 CM, I'm a 6 Dasher fan.
I have described process in detail on this site, you can look it up it's been repeated many times to individuals.
I haven't ran varmint bullets in mine...just 140 gr, at 3100 fps & around 3000 fps for 147 gr, & 150 gr SMK is my favorite. Plus a few 153 Atips.
It's 24 factory barrel, but have a 26" Bartlein ready.
The powder that shines on the heavys is scarce, RL26...but a few others will get by.
As a varmint rifle with light bullets you lose velocity quickly with short barrels. Heavy bullets lose less velocity as barrels get shorter. So is it worth it for varmints, probably up to you, and your hunting style.
You'd probably gain a 100 to 150 fps, if that's important enough to mess with it is up to you.

I ran the 308 with hybrid cases with lighter bullets in different barrel lengths, but mostly in 22" Varmint SA, & 30" target long action.
110 gr 3400, 130 gr 3300 155/ 150 3100 in 22" (3200 in 30" ) 168 Berger 2960 fps
200 2800 fps (200 gr 2900 fps in 30")
225 gr 2709 in 30," in hybrid cases ....230 gr Atips 2620 fps in Lapua cases in 30"
If ya don't get the right powders the velocity doesn't go up as fast but the pressure does.

I run a 358 win over 3700 fps in a 16" AR 10 for close range varmints, same very light bullet over 2600 fps in 9mm 16" AR 15 ...inside a 100 yds and 33 rds to do it....the 9 mm bunny slayer extraordinaire, don't even have to worry about losing cases and no hybrid cases needed.

Have you tried any VV powders in these as an alternative to RL26 ?

 

[45-90]

Have you tried any VV powders in these as an alternative to RL26 ?

No N560 runs the pressure up too fast for the extra velocity but it will get ya part of the way.
RL 26 is powder for the hybrid 6.5 CM case.
Pressure is reasonable enough to give you a cushion and velocity is high.
The powder in the 80,000 psi hybrid Fury case took over 60 tries to get the formula/ blend just right for one particular armor piercing bullet designed to defeat Russian body armor,....and was classified top secret during development.
So we're lucky to have RL26 because it's that good in this narrow application.
Last time I got it it was $53 per lb now if I find it it's 65-70 dollars per pound.
Superformance might be worth a try but it's pretty fast for this application but can yield good velocities, but how will it react as the pressures climb.

 

[dgheriani]

Have you put enough of these rounds through a 6.5 Creed barrel yet to burn one out? Curious how much barrel life you give up for the added speed?

 

[45-90]

I actually have an extra Bartlein barrel ready to go.
But I've built quite a few other projects I'm working on, and involved with, 510 whisper, 8.6 blackout, 338 ARC, 338 Spectre, only the 338 ARC is not built, the chamber reamer has not arrived... so I stopped messing with the 6.5 CM for a while, but I would suspect barrel life has to be a bit less.
Probably slightly more than 6.5 PRC, but that would give you an idea of what to expect.
Barrel life is always an iffy guess, because so many things influence it, like barrel material, barrel making process, shooting very hot barrels, cleaning, and ones perception of accuracy differs from person to person.
Plus not all the rounds one fires has to be the high pressure high performance rounds, unless you want to.

 

[Thomas Geistman]

I recently took on this endeavor of re-forming 277 Fury to 6.5 Creedmoor. The brass I got had the mouths beat up pretty badly. I threw it in the tumbler to clean it up, then lubed it and ran it through a 7mm-08 full length sizing due with the de-cap/expander ball removed. I probably should have annealed before I did this step but I didn’t and I ended up with a few dings or wrinkles in the shoulder on some of the brass. Then I trimmed the brass to the same length as a Creedmoor case. Chamfer and de-burr it. After that I cleaned the brass and ran it through my annealer. Then ran it through a RCBS full length sizing die setup to just bump the shoulder back 2-3 thou to make it match my chamber. I found that if I partially ran the ram up pulled the expander ball back through and then ran it all the way I seemed to get better brass through it without as many damaged shoulders. After that I cleaned off the lube and put some primers in, loaded up some charges and then seated the bullets as far out as I could. I got a lot of freebore on this Browning chamber so I seated them as long as I was comfortable going in the magazine. I think I ended up at 2.890 COAL.

Now take this all with a grain of salt as I have been reloading off and on for quite some time and can usually produce good ammo for my standards. I’m no F class shooter and my equipment is very basic though. I’m sure there is a better process. My next upgrade will be a SAC die with some different neck bushings.

 

[45-90]

I recently took on this endeavor of re-forming 277 Fury to 6.5 Creedmoor. The brass I got had the mouths beat up pretty badly. I threw it in the tumbler to clean it up, then lubed it and ran it through a 7mm-08 full length sizing due with the de-cap/expander ball removed. I probably should have annealed before I did this step but I didn’t and I ended up with a few dings or wrinkles in the shoulder on some of the brass. Then I trimmed the brass to the same length as a Creedmoor case. Chamfer and de-burr it. After that I cleaned the brass and ran it through my annealer. Then ran it through a RCBS full length sizing die setup to just bump the shoulder back 2-3 thou to make it match my chamber. I found that if I partially ran the ram up pulled the expander ball back through and then ran it all the way I seemed to get better brass through it without as many damaged shoulders. After that I cleaned off the lube and put some primers in, loaded up some charges and then seated the bullets as far out as I could. I got a lot of freebore on this Browning chamber so I seated them as long as I was comfortable going in the magazine. I think I ended up at 2.890 COAL.

Now take this all with a grain of salt as I have been reloading off and on for quite some time and can usually produce good ammo for my standards. I’m no F class shooter and my equipment is very basic though. I’m sure there is a better process. My next upgrade will be a SAC die with some different neck bushings.

That is some ugly brass.
And totally unacceptable, especially if your gonna try to push the pressure.
Throw it away and start over.
Stop when ya screw it up and determine what you are doing wrong.
Insanity is to keep going.
If you follow directions they come out perfect...as I have laid out the process many times.
It's not hard to make hundreds of excellent cases.

 

[Thomas Geistman]

Yea they’re not all wrinkled. Appreciate your opinion, and I do plan on buying some more and trying again. I know some of it isn’t the best and I don’t plan on loading those. My first loads aren’t even pushing pressure yet. I will say yes yours are shinier than mine, but mine are annealed. I’m not worried about how shiny the outside is. I checked the neck on them all and checked the headspace on them all and they’re all the same, atleast as far as my equipment can measure. I would call that acceptable to load. Why don’t we wait and see what the outcome is before we jump to conclusions. Who knows, you might be right!

 

[45-90]

Yea they’re not all wrinkled. Appreciate your opinion, and I do plan on buying some more and trying again. I know some of it isn’t the best and I don’t plan on loading those. My first loads aren’t even pushing pressure yet. I will say yes yours are shinier than mine, but mine are annealed. I’m not worried about how shiny the outside is. I checked the neck on them all and checked the headspace on them all and they’re all the same, atleast as far as my equipment can measure. I would call that acceptable to load. Why don’t we wait and see what the outcome is before we jump to conclusions. Who knows, you might be right!

I anneal them too but neck turn them all to eliminate the donut area in the neck shoulder junction. To get a no pressure points to spike pressures as one begins to push pressures upward.
They are final polished not needed but looks good, so anneal does not show.

I want people to experience the extra performance safely making good cases with no pinch points is important for performance and accuracy.
Probably be prudent to fire the first reloaded rounds at normal pressures to get them formed and check out your loading practices.
Then begin the push with the fired cases.

I do this on an industrial scale with
machine tools, regardless of caliber.
Bridgeport mill cuts off a half inch of brass in a second or two.
Lathe 308 here, with carbide ground tool for neck turning, the neck, the radius which is sharper the spec to help remove the donut, and the shoulder angle.
About 600 6.8 X 51 hybrid cases ready for processing to other calibers.
A pic of a no donut case notice the full machined neck, radius, & shoulder.
This is 6.5 PRC necked and machined to 338 RCM for an AR 10, but all hybrid cases get this treatment. The results is an AR 10 capable of 1/2" groups.
You will get excellent accuracy and high performance out of 6.8 X 51 hybrid cases shortened & necked to 6.5 CM if you make really good cases.
Hand tools are more tedious so use power whenever ya can...but most can be accomplished with hand tools.
The quality of the formed cases is up to the individual, but will reflect on the cartridges performance and accuracy.
Ya get out what ya put in.

 

[bene-201]

I actually have an extra Bartlein barrel ready to go.
But I've built quite a few other projects I'm working on, and involved with, 510 whisper, 8.6 blackout, 338 ARC, 338 Spectre, only the 338 ARC is not built, the chamber reamer has not arrived... so I stopped messing with the 6.5 CM for a while, but I would suspect barrel life has to be a bit less.
Probably slightly more than 6.5 PRC, but that would give you an idea of what to expect.
Barrel life is always an iffy guess, because so many things influence it, like barrel material, barrel making process, shooting very hot barrels, cleaning, and ones perception of accuracy differs from person to person.
Plus not all the rounds one fires has to be the high pressure high performance rounds, unless you want to.

I’m impressed with your case preparation process, especially the neck turning. Since 6.5 CM isn’t on your priority list right now, would you be willing to let some of those cases go?

 

[45-90]

I’m impressed with your case preparation process, especially the neck turning. Since 6.5 CM isn’t on your priority list right now, would you be willing to let some of those cases go?

It doesn't hurt to ask, but...No, I generally do not make rifle cases for others. I've only done cases for a few local guys on obsolete calibers like 30 Rem, 401& 351 WSL, 30RAR.

I get asked to make cases alot, like hybrid and 510 whisper lately.

I prefer to instruct on how I do mine so others can do their own.
Yes I have machine tools to make them fast, but one can make them with hand tools... just more work.
Plus there is always a liability problem, making cases for others.

 

[bene-201]

It doesn't hurt to ask, but...No, I generally do not make rifle cases for others. I've only done cases for a few local guys on obsolete calibers like 30 Rem, 401& 351 WSL, 30RAR.

I get asked to make cases alot, like hybrid and 510 whisper lately.

I prefer to instruct on how I do mine so others can do their own.
Yes I have machine tools to make them fast, but one can make them with hand tools... just more work.
Plus there is always a liability problem, making cases for others.

Totally fair. I figured it was a long shot but like you said - doesn’t hurt to ask. Appreciate all the knowledge you’ve put out there on hybrid cases.

 

[wvfarrier]

Id love to have some converted 308 Win if you do decide to sell some.

 

[stello1001]

Id love to have some converted 308 Win if you do decide to sell some.

Why not make some? If you reload, which I believe you so since you want some brass, then you should have the tools to convert it no?

It's really not that difficult.

 

[wvfarrier]

Why not make some? If you reload, which I believe you so since you want some brass, then you should have the tools to convert it no?

It's really not that difficult.

I do not have the ability to neck turn them. I was under the impression it was required for the 308 conversion

 

[stello1001]

I do not have the ability to neck turn them. I was under the impression it was required for the 308 conversion

I believe many are having success without neck turning. Remember, we are sizing up from .284 to .308 so if anything, brass should thin out a bit.

My memory could be off, but I believe people are neck turning these when converting them to creed.

You bring up a good point though, I had not put much thought into it. I have a bunch of hybrid cases i was supposed to convert to 308 this weekend but it looks like I won't have the time.

 

[45-90]

I neck turn all reformed cases ...especially if you're gonna push the pressures up quite a bit, as in this case. But it's also for accuracy and free bullet release.

"Can get by with out doing" is not the correct mind set.
Do the things necessary to make quality cases, and eliminate pressure spikes form varying pinch points is highly important.

In the 6.8 X51 hybrid case to form to 308 or especially 6.5 CM neck turning is a definite must IMO.
I neck turn all brass and hybrid cases I reform.

I have lathe so it's easy but hand loaders have a wide variety of neck turning options available.

Its where the shoulder becomes part of the neck that's thicker, and should be skim neck turned on the orginial 2/3 of the neck and cuts off thicker metal on the back 1/3 of the neck.

Examples all 50BMG are military neck turned.
Fire forming neck turned 6mm dasher.

Neck turned 308 250 gr Atip 2515 fps, 110 Barnes over 3500 fps 56.2 gr of powder in the case.

Neck turned 308 hybrid cases and 208 Bergers with 2 different loads of RL 17 ...both putting bullets in the in the same same spot the higher powder charge on top.

Or 250 pcs of 6 mm ARC... no head stamp but formed, annealed, & neck turned out of grindle basis straight wall.
Will usually shoot 5 shots 1/2" or less in AR 15 as seen by the first 5 shot group out of this new barrel.

So the point is...skip all the steps ya want, but accuracy and safety especially in the hybrid case, is where neck turning into the shoulder is important.
Plus sharing load information can be dangerous with improperly prepared cases.

 

[MikeMiller]

I neck turn all reformed cases ...especially if you're gonna push the pressures up quite a bit, as in this case. But it's also for accuracy and free bullet release.

"Can get by with out doing" is not the correct mind set.
Do the things necessary to make quality cases, and eliminate pressure spikes form varying pinch points is highly important.

In the 6.8 X51 hybrid case to form to 308 or especially 6.5 CM neck turning is a definite must IMO.
I neck turn all brass and hybrid cases I reform.

I have lathe so it's easy but hand loaders have a wide variety of neck turning options available.

Its where the shoulder becomes part of the neck that's thicker, and should be skim neck turned on the orginial 2/3 of the neck and cuts off thicker metal on the back 1/3 of the neck.

Examples all 50BMG are military neck turned.
Fire forming neck turned 6mm dasher.

Neck turned 308 250 gr Atip 2515 fps, 110 Barnes over 3500 fps 56.2 gr of powder in the case.

Neck turned 308 hybrid cases and 208 Bergers with 2 different loads of RL 17 ...both putting bullets in the in the same same spot the higher powder charge on top.

Or 250 pcs of 6 mm ARC... no head stamp but formed, annealed, & neck turned out of grindle basis straight wall.
Will usually shoot 5 shots 1/2" or less in AR 15 as seen by the first 5 shot group out of this new barrel.

So the point is...skip all the steps ya want, but accuracy and safety especially in the hybrid case, is where neck turning into the shoulder is important.
Plus sharing load information can be dangerous with improperly prepared cases.

I see a trend. No expert but I see many cases of this type being available in the future. I am waiting to see 6.5 Creedmoor being commercially available myself

I am going to do some testing of 5.56 to see how close with these types of cases to see how much more yardage we can get out of hot loaded 77’s

Thanks for your work on this

 

[wvfarrier]

I neck turn all reformed cases ...especially if you're gonna push the pressures up quite a bit, as in this case. But it's also for accuracy and free bullet release.

"Can get by with out doing" is not the correct mind set.
Do the things necessary to make quality cases, and eliminate pressure spikes form varying pinch points is highly important.

In the 6.8 X51 hybrid case to form to 308 or especially 6.5 CM neck turning is a definite must IMO.
I neck turn all brass and hybrid cases I reform.

I have lathe so it's easy but hand loaders have a wide variety of neck turning options available.

Its where the shoulder becomes part of the neck that's thicker, and should be skim neck turned on the orginial 2/3 of the neck and cuts off thicker metal on the back 1/3 of the neck.

Examples all 50BMG are military neck turned.
Fire forming neck turned 6mm dasher.

Neck turned 308 250 gr Atip 2515 fps, 110 Barnes over 3500 fps 56.2 gr of powder in the case.

Neck turned 308 hybrid cases and 208 Bergers with 2 different loads of RL 17 ...both putting bullets in the in the same same spot the higher powder charge on top.

Or 250 pcs of 6 mm ARC... no head stamp but formed, annealed, & neck turned out of grindle basis straight wall.
Will usually shoot 5 shots 1/2" or less in AR 15 as seen by the first 5 shot group out of this new barrel.

So the point is...skip all the steps ya want, but accuracy and safety especially in the hybrid case, is where neck turning into the shoulder is important.
Plus sharing load information can be dangerous with improperly prepared cases.

It would seem though that removing material from a neck that has already been thinned in the forming would weaken it. How much are you removing?

 

[45-90]

It would seem though that removing material from a neck that has already been thinned in the forming would weaken it. How much are you removing?

If you read the whole post instead of your preconceived ideas ....it is explained.

I have to go out in a hot 120° garage to form a case to show ya...it gets irritating holding school on a hot day, with those who have preconceived notions about what should be, instead of what is.
It's one reason why they sell neck turning tools to reloaders.

Point is you don't want to neck turn into the shoulder don't.... your gun, your ammo.
I ain't gonna argue.
Because of cartridge and chamber tolerences you may get away with it working okay for you...but the next chamber may be a problem. Plus your case neck will likely be tighter at the neck shoulder junction...inconsistent on the last 1/3 of the new neck portion.

See the pic below you are using part of the shoulder as the new neck on the 308 as shown with the rough out with a 308 die.

This area is commonly thicker as the brass goes back toward the head.

The last portion of the new 308 neck and the new radius in the head shoulder junction will have more material than normal to form, and push back partially back out with the expander ball, leaving a small ring in the neck, if used...no expander ball the neck will stay thicker in that area creating a pinch point...in both instances.
You are now depending on a loose chamber to save your bacon (ass).
Where pressures can spike 10k psi getting the bullet to move...depending on chamber tolerances.

I neck turn in the lathe...I cut a sharper radius to relieve the thicker metal problem in this area, and the whole angle.
But I have the tools to do so.

All that is need are the hand tools available everywhere to cut slightly into the shoulder.

Don't worry, at maximum irritation....I'm still not as crazy as this liberal professor bitch.
She even has "kill" on her computer case...along with that same look in her eyes. kinda makes ya want to irritate her on purpose...push a few buttons...and listen to the high volume screams.
Thoughts of Marriage anyone?

 

[45-90]

I see a trend. No expert but I see many cases of this type being available in the future. I am waiting to see 6.5 Creedmoor being commercially available myself

I am going to do some testing of 5.56 to see how close with these types of cases to see how much more yardage we can get out of hot loaded 77’s

Thanks for your work on this

These cases are interesting and probably a winner of design will be the case of the future.

I have spent alot of time on the 6.8 hybrid by Sig.
It really improves the 6.5 CM at around 75,000 psi. with RL26.
Accurate and fast with 147 gr eldm, 150 SMK, and 153 gr Atips around 3k fps or slightly less. In a 24" barrel
This is a new way to get performance, especially with short barrels....it just needs to be perfected and available in many calibers, as you say.

I have not messed with the NAS3 cases only reloadable in 9 mm with the aluminum body.
The Shell Shock NSA3 "rifle" cases are 2 piece stainless steel NOT reloadable, becsuse it compromises safety and performance of the case according to the manufacturer.
They are only loaded to normal brass cases specs according to the military test 308 155 were loaded to 3000 fps and 50,000 psi.
Their other claims are same 5.56 pressure as brass but their case has more capacity, like claimed 8% to get more velocity.
They also have a huge primer hole that is aldo used to connect the case body to the case head.

So unlike the new Federal 7mm BC, and the 6.8 x51 which ARE designed to operate at 80,000 psi...the NSA 3 case has "no such claim" from the manufacturer.
But one should be able push them a little because of the SS head....but the enormous primer hole may be a factor in designed pressure limits.

 

[wvfarrier]

If you read the whole post instead of your preconceived ideas ....it is explained.

I have to go out in a hot 120° garage to form a case to show ya...it gets irritating holding school on a hot day, with those who have preconceived notions about what should be, instead of what is.
It's one reason why they sell neck turning tools to reloaders.

Point is you don't want to neck turn into the shoulder don't.... your gun, your ammo.
I ain't gonna argue.
Because of cartridge and chamber tolerences you may get away with it working okay for you...but the next chamber may be a problem. Plus your case neck will likely be tighter at the neck shoulder junction...inconsistent on the last 1/3 of the new neck portion.

See the pic below you are using part of the shoulder as the new neck on the 308 as shown with the rough out with a 308 die.

This area is commonly thicker as the brass goes back toward the head.

The last portion of the new 308 neck and the new radius in the head shoulder junction will have more material than normal to form, and push back partially back out with the expander ball, leaving a small ring in the neck, if used...no expander ball the neck will stay thicker in that area creating a pinch point...in both instances.
You are now depending on a loose chamber to save your bacon (ass).
Where pressures can spike 10k psi getting the bullet to move...depending on chamber tolerances.

I neck turn in the lathe...I cut a sharper radius to relieve the thicker metal problem in this area, and the whole angle.
But I have the tools to do so.

All that is need are the hand tools available everywhere to cut slightly into the shoulder.

Don't worry, at maximum irritation....I'm still not as crazy as this liberal professor bitch.
She even has "kill" on her computer case...along with that same look in her eyes. kinda makes ya want to irritate her on purpose...push a few buttons...and listen to the high volume screams.
Thoughts of Marriage anyone?

Dude calm down. I have been reading, sheesh.