Reloading for .308

[DeauxJoe]

Well there is an absoulte plethora of information about reloading this cal. and I am a brand new reloader. I am expecting my rifle next week and I want to start loaing some ammo this weekend so that it is ready for when the new gun arrives. Is there a "standard load" that I should try? I have done a ton of reading on here and in my Lyman reloading manual. I have learned a bunch of great information. The reason I am asking is because after I get to do some load development I would like to be able to post my results and have them elvaluated to see if I am doing it right. Here is what I am thinking you guys LMk if I am off at all.

Gun has a 20 inch 1:12 twist barrel
I already have some 168 grn SMK and 168 Noslers
Im thinking Varget powder?
CCI Larger rifle primers
Seat to 2.750 OAL

I am a little nervous about loading my first round so thats why I posted this. LMk what you guys think, Thanks.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Reloading for .308

Look up "ladder test". Run two identical ones. Find your max load with bullets jammed in the lands. Identify nodes and do an OCW test. Find your charge. Tune your seating depth.

Varget is the old standby 308 powder. If it won't shoot with Varget, somethings probably wrong.

168smk, 175smk and 155 scenars are the primary go-to bullets. 168s suffer out past 600-700 yards. 175s are great. Rifles tend to be finicky on whether they'll shoot the 155s well. They are one of the top long range 308 bullets for long range.

If I were doing a 308 ladder with 168s and Varget, I'd start at 42 or 43, and go up to 48 in 1/2gr increments. Beware!!!! You'll likely encounter pressure before you get all the way to 48gr.

Read up.

Lastly, if you're a precision rifle newbie, I recommend you do most of your practice with a 22LR or 17HMR and KNOW *YOU* can shoot excellent groups before attempting serious load development.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Thank you sir, will do.

 

[FCS]

Re: Reloading for .308

Welcome to the world of reloading!

What did you get for first rifle? Would help a bunch on suggestions for a "standard" load.

Manuals have data that will work for every action type. Since the 308 has been chambered in every action type (bolt action, lever action, DI gas gun, op rod gas gun, piston gas gun, single shot, etc.) the data has to be compatible with the "weakest" platform.

2.750 is pretty short for an OAL, especially if this is a factory chamber.

What brass will you be running?

168s you almost can't get enough Varget in the case. H4895 would be my suggestion with the 168s, though Varget will work. Worse case you are a bit slower velocity.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

It's not my first rifle but it is the first one I plan on being this serious with lol.



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Stacy at mile high is finishing it up for me as we speak. M700 in AICS. I have 100 pc of rem brass I got from Midway. I have no primers or powder I plan on going today and picking some up. So I am open to all suggestions. I said Varget due to all the information floating around about it. I would like to get the best bang for my buck (no pun intended)so if I can do better LMK.

 

[FCS]

Re: Reloading for .308

Factory Rem chamber?

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Yes sir, it has been trued and honestly I'm not sure which barrel it has on it. Stacey couldn't really say either.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were doing a 308 ladder with 168s and Varget, I'd start at 42 or 43, and go up to 48 in 1/2gr increments. Beware!!!! You'll likely encounter pressure before you get all the way to 48gr.</div></div>

Since the std loading for 155s is 47.8 gr Varget with 0.015 jumps, I am absolutely sure you will see pressure with 168s before 48 gr. {Mandatory caution: 47.8 is right at the sane edge of pressures with 155s.} You will probably start seeing pressure with 168s in the mid-high 46s and with 175s in the high 45s and low 46s.

 

[FCS]

Re: Reloading for .308

If factory Rem chamber you'll be 2.910" or so to touch lands w/168 SMK.

AICS mag you are limited to 2.860" for reliable feeding.

168s take jump well, I'd start at 2.860" OAL as this is as long as you can go w/o mods to AICS mag. Could run alpha type 2 mags and go longer but past 2.900" you need to notch feed ramp on 700.

H4895 has been the go to powder for 168s for a long, long time. I'd start with H4895 unless you already have Varget in hand.

Rem brass is slightly less capacity then Win brass. Given a Rem factory chamber, H4895, SMK 168, Rem brass, and CCI 200s, I'd start at 42 gr and work up in 0.5 gr increments to a max of 45 gr. I expect you'll be at 44gr +/- couple tenths when it is all said n done.

YMMV

Start low, work up gradually, be safe, and enjoy the fruits of your labor!

 

[turbo54]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were doing a 308 ladder with 168s and Varget, I'd start at 42 or 43, and go up to 48 in 1/2gr increments. Beware!!!! You'll likely encounter pressure before you get all the way to 48gr.</div></div>

Since the std loading for 155s is 47.8 gr Varget with 0.015 jumps, I am absolutely sure you will see pressure with 168s before 48 gr. {Mandatory caution: 47.8 is right at the sane edge of pressures with 155s.} You will probably start seeing pressure with 168s in the mid-high 46s and with 175s in the high 45s and low 46s. </div></div>

Mitch, I agree with you 98%. There is a high likelyhood pressure will be encountered well before 48gr with 168smk/Varget. However, I've had a rifle or two that would handle ridiculous charges before pressure signs showed up.... I never tried 168s, but 175/Varget showed pressure at 47.5, and 155LS/Varget NEVER showed pressure, all the way up to a heavily tamped/compressed load of 50gr.

I much prefer to load my ladders BEYOND max, labeled CAREFULLY, so that when I hit the range and get all set up, I absolutely know I'll find the max max loading. Otherwise, I go home wondering what might have been. Then I have to load more and hit the range and get all set up again. <span style="font-weight: bold"> MANDATORY CAUTION: DISASSEMBLE OVER-PRESSURE AMMO IMMEDIATELY!!! </span>

OP: Read up and be absolutely positive you understand what "pressure signs" are....what to look for and when to STOP! If you are in any way uncertain of what you're doing, bring someone who knows, or don't do it at all.

 

[Macmathews]

Re: Reloading for .308

Wow , great post and ever better advice
I'll be coming back to this 1.
Just ordered a Rem 5R in Canada.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Yeah as new loader I am seriously scared I'll miss an over pressure sign. I have been studying them pretty rigorously. What would I be looking for in order from least sever to STOP NOW!!!

 

[FCS]

Re: Reloading for .308

Not to side track the OPs post too much but in factory 5R from Rem.

Win brass
GM210M
175 SMK seated to 2.810" OAL
45.5gr of Varget

Work up to 45.5gr in your rifle, brass, burn rate for your lot # of Varget, etc.
46 gr is pretty much all the Varget you can get in case with 175 seated to 2.810".

I'd put money on your load being 45.2 to 45.8 gr of Varget along with other components listed in a factory Rem 700 5R in 308.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to side track the OPs post too much but in factory 5R from Rem.

Win brass
GM210M
175 SMK seated to 2.810" OAL
45.5gr of Varget

Work up to 45.5gr in your rifle, brass, burn rate for your lot # of Varget, etc.
46 gr is pretty much all the Varget you can get in case with 175 seated to 2.810".

I'd put money on your load being 45.2 to 45.8 gr of Varget along with other components listed in a factory Rem 700 5R in 308. </div></div>

Good advice. From my experience, factory Remmys and Savages end up somewhere in the 45's with the 175/Varget combo. Seems like custom rifles (tight chamber/throat, I guess) seem to prefer lighter charges oftentimes.

**The** load for my Savage 10:

175SMK
45.50 Varget
CCI BR2
2.785 COAL
~2700fps

Shoots lights out in any piece of brass I've loaded it in.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeauxJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah as new loader I am seriously scared I'll miss an over pressure sign. I have been studying them pretty rigorously. What would I be looking for in order from least sever to STOP NOW!!! </div></div>

Honestly, it's not a hard thing to do. It's just imperative you know what you're looking for. It's good to be nervous and to study as a newbie. Once you gain even a bit of experience, you won't be nervous anymore.

The key method for observing high pressure when out in the field is the "ejector kick mark", or the casehead "swipe mark". Yes, a "flat" primer is saying something, but it is NOT the fundamental sign to look for. It would be a good idea to bring calipers to the range and measure the diameter of the body (just ahead of the rim) befor/after firing and observe/measure casehead expansion.

Pay close to attention to, and mentally "log" how it feels to unlock your bolt. If it feels sticky or stiff when swinging up to unlock - that is a real sign of overpressure. Look at the casehead of the extracted brass. Does the primer have a nice firing pin dimple in it? It should. If pressure has blown the dimple back out and the primer cup re-formed against the boltface, thats bad. If the primer has a hole in it where there *was* a firing pin dent, thats bad. Is there soot around the primer/brass interface? Thats bad.

Now look to see if any deformation has ocurred on the casehead where the brass is marked "308 WIN". You should not see any kind of dent, or "imprint" of your ejector. An ejector kickmark will be a circular imprint on the case head....the same diameter as the ejector in your bolt. This is bad, and generally one of the first signs of pressure.

Now look to see if there is a shiny "swipe mark" on the casehead. This is caused by over pressured brass that has "flowed" into places it wasn't supposed to. When you unlock/rotate your bolt (which was probably sticky), the extractor has had to rub across the casehead, often leaving a shiny semi-circle trail. This is bad.

The last thing to look at and "consider" is the corner radius on the primer. The corners of the primer cup should still be radiused. They'll be considerably flatter than new, but if they are FLAT, with a sharp corner edge, that *may* be over pressure. However, excessive headspace can cause this phenomenon as well. I have observed 7.62x51 NATO ammo (which is lower pressure than 308win) REALLY, REALLY leave flat primers in rifles with a couple thousandths too much headspace, so this isn't a dead-ringer method of determining pressure. Still, observer the flatness of the primer for each round coming out of the rifle. If something looks different than the rest, STOP and think about what has changed!

Hope this helps.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Reloading for .308

Start with 42grs RE15 and seat your bullets @2.800-2.820", you should be set.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Turbo, very helpful thank you. It's nice to have some practical knowledge with out having to pay for it by messing up lol.

I bought some H4895 today so we will start with that and see where we end up.

So to recap I have 168 grn SMK and 168 Noslers,
New Rem brass,
CCI 200 primers,
H4895

So I guess all that is left it to assemble some. lol

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

PS I have some H1000 I bought to load .338 LM. I sole the .338 should I just get rid of the powder or could it have some application in a .308?

 

[FCS]

Re: Reloading for .308

No application in 308 for H1000.

Give to a buddy or trade for powder that works best in your 308.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Wanna trade?

 

[FCS]

Re: Reloading for .308

If you were in NM we could probably work out something. However, I do not have haz mat cert so me shipping powder is a no no.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Lol thanks anyway. I don't want to get too into the next topic untill I work at getting started but I will want to do some sub sonics. Can I do that with the same supplies?

 

[Coletta]

Re: Reloading for .308

I have done a lot of .308 development this year in 10, 11.25, and 12 twist barrels. I have been using mostly fgmm brass with some lapua. Fgmm brass has been around 177gr range, and lapua has been in the 172gr range. I have been trying all types of cci primers. Bullets used have been 155 scenars, 165 accubond (for a hunting load), 168 smks, and 175 smks. Coal has been 2.80 range. Powders were re15, varget, tac (never again, extremely dirty), and some other stuff. I have made several observations. I have always found my best load while using varget, 175 smks (I really want to work with the 155 scenars more though), and cci br-2's. I have found "sweet spots" in the 43.5-44.5 gr varget range depending on barrel length and brass used (don't forget to safely work up the loads). The 168's may have sometimes been tighter at 100 yards, but the 175's always did better at 600 yards. I know this is a very "to each his own" topic, but it should help with some of the initial confusion. I always get a headache when researching for a good starting point on a new caliber. FYI, the accubonds shot very well with varget.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeauxJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah as new loader I am seriously scared I'll miss an over pressure sign. I have been studying them pretty rigorously. What would I be looking for in order from least sever to STOP NOW!!! </div></div>

Feel the bolt as you unlock after firing a shot. If the bolt is stiffer than when the round went it you have a caution sign. If you have to use more than a couple pounds of extra-normal force to open the bolt it becomes a stop-and-investigate sign.

Look at the base of the case and see if you can find an outdentation that has the shape of the ejector or the extractor--likely to be more polished than the restof the base. This pressure sign is called ejector swipe.

Look at the body of the case 3-5mm above the extractor cut. You are expecting a good fraction of a thou of diametrical expansion but anything more than a full thou is a sign of excess pressure (and sometimes of a chamber cut too big or improperly). This measurement is smaller that you can generally measure with a 3-digit caliper so break out the 4-digit micrometers.

Look at the primer. The edge of the primer is a good indicator of pressure. If the edgge remains rounded--pressure is generally OK. If the center fo the primer shows cratering this CAN be a sign of pressure of a sign that your bolt needs bushed.

When you get home, measure the obturated diameter of the neck. When you get into real pressures, the neck diameter will increase another half thou over an identical loading with less pressure.

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

Well loaded up my first batch today. It was fun. The only problem I encountered was power measuring. I have a Lee power measure but it was too much of a pain to keep adjusting ever two rounds so I just hand measured everything. Did loads from 40 grains to 46.5 with H4895. Should that be ok?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DeauxJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well loaded up my first batch today. It was fun. The only problem I encountered was power measuring. I have a Lee power measure but it was too much of a pain to keep adjusting ever two rounds so I just hand measured everything. Did loads from 40 grains to 46.5 with H4895. Should that be ok? </div></div>

Sounds good. Just make sure they are WELL LABELED, and they are IMPOSSIBLE to mistake. You do not want to get these mixed up. I always write the charge on them with an *industrial* sharpie.

Also, I hope you've loaded at least two identical batches. Set up two targets, and run two ladders. I fire load 1 from batch 1, then load 1 from batch 2. I like to bring a 22 with me, and fire 5-10 rounds (carefully aimed) at another target between each shot for load development. Remember, you'll be "deciding" which loadings have potential from your results, so you must aim them PERFECTLY. Fire each round like your life depended on it.

With a 308, I like 300 yards for a ladder. Closer, and you dont get very good vertical dispersion. Farther, and you begin to question just how *perfectly* you got your shot off. Perform the ladder at the farthest range you feel superbly confident your hold is goid for. I am an Fclass master and still feel 300 is my max for superb control. YMMV.

Target size... this depends on how much magnification youve got, and how thick your reticle is. For me, I like to use a 3/4" black spot @ ~15 power. This allows the quadrants of the spot to just barely peek out from the center cross of my reticle. Do whatever will allow you to ABSOLUTELY RESOLVE an exact point of aim each time.
Lastly, be sure you have a method to spot your bullet holes after each shot and draw a picture of your target as you go. Label your target as soon as you retrieve it and label the charge weight associated with each bullet hole as well as other pertinent load data.

And don't forget to quarantine the overpressure cartridges and disassemble them ASAP!

 

[DeauxJoe]

Re: Reloading for .308

What's the best method for disassembling?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Reloading for .308

I use an old RCBS inertial puller - whch is one of the units that looks like a hammer. The hammerhead is hollow, and has a collet captivated by a thread-on cap. The collet catches on the extraction groove of the case. You smack the hammer on a concrete floor, and the bullet's inertia pulls the bullet out of the case as the hammer comes to a stop against the floor. The bullet and powder are caught inside the hammerhead.

These work great on SMKs and Lapua Scenars, but I've recently learned they ruin amaxs.

You can also get a die for your press that has a lever-engaged collet that grabs the bullet. I imagine (though I've never used one) this type won't damage ballistic tip bullets such as the amax.

 

[zeddy]

Re: Reloading for .308

I am just starting to load for my 700 LTR. It's a 20" 1 in 12
Today I went to the range and I had loaded some 175smk with varget and CCI br2 in virgin lapua brass.

I loaded 43gr 44gr and 44.6gr. I didnt get any pressure signs with any of them but the 44.6 seemed to group horrible and the 45gr not as good as the 43gr. I was only at a 100m range but does this sound right? I was not able to crono as it was raining too hard. Is it possible the rain was interfering? should I try this again on a clear day or just load with the 43gr?

 

[Nimzoblanca]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zeddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just starting to load for my 700 LTR. It's a 20" 1 in 12
Today I went to the range and I had loaded some 175smk with varget and CCI br2 in virgin lapua brass.

I loaded 43gr 44gr and 44.6gr. I didnt get any pressure signs with any of them but the 44.6 seemed to group horrible and the 45gr not as good as the 43gr. I was only at a 100m range but does this sound right? I was not able to crono as it was raining too hard. Is it possible the rain was interfering? should I try this again on a clear day or just load with the 43gr? </div></div>
I have the same gun (LTR). I tried the same combo, 175g SMK with 44.5g and 45.0g of Varget. Got decent groups but nothing stellar. I seem to get better consistency and groups using 44.0g of IMR4064.

Hard to diagnose any problem on your part with the limited info. Did you check bullet runout with a concentricity gauge? What did you do for brass prep? Were you meticulous on measuring the powder charge for consistency? As far as rain - yeah, I'd redo on a better day.

 

[zeddy]

Re: Reloading for .308

I full length resized them, uniform primer pocket and flash hole. trim case length. For powder I used a lyman electronic scale/trickler so I'm pretty sure that was bang on.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Reloading for .308

If factory Rem chamber you'll be 2.910" or so to touch lands w/168 SMK.

Actually, its 2.940" where the 168MK will be kissing the lands in a factory remington chamber, thats the way it is with both of my rems anyways. Also, either one of my 308s did not like varget, tried it in my sporter and my SPSS, maybe I got a bad batch of powder, who knows but the infamous loads for the 168MKs produced huge groups in my SPSS, not to mention a sticky bolt, only did a small test with my sporter 308 and RE15 won that. I do know that my SPSS likes 43grs RE15 with the 168AMAX, 47grs RE15 with the 155AMAX, both using CCIBR2 and or WLR primers and Win brass. I also learned from a past experience from a buddies Rem 308 that the 168MKs like to be seated deeper than you might think, he had them set at 2.830" oal, his groups were one ragged hole, when he seated them out further the groups were not so good.
Some examples of what my rem likes. 2nd group is with 178HPBTs and 47.5grs 2000MR, DAMN flyer! 3rd group is 155AMAXs@300yds, group to the right was after I adjusted scope with a flyer higher, as you can see.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zeddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just starting to load for my 700 LTR. It's a 20" 1 in 12
Today I went to the range and I had loaded some 175smk with varget and CCI br2 in virgin lapua brass.

I loaded 43gr 44gr and 44.6gr. I didnt get any pressure signs with any of them but the 44.6 seemed to group horrible and the 45gr not as good as the 43gr. I was only at a 100m range but does this sound right? I was not able to crono as it was raining too hard. Is it possible the rain was interfering? should I try this again on a clear day or just load with the 43gr? </div></div>

Oh yeah, rain will mess with your groups, no doubt.

 

[zeddy]

Re: Reloading for .308

even with the rain I did manage to get a half a dozen groups under half an inch, and a couple bigger but hey who's perfect. It just seemed all my smaller groups were with the 43 gr loads and my biggest groups were with the 44.5gr loads.

I'll have to try it again with the crono and without the rain.

 

[Compact45]

Re: Reloading for .308

I have an LTR that really likes 168 SMKs loaded with 45.1g of Varget, Lapua case, WLR primer, and COL of 2.80. This load will put five shots in one ragged hole at 100. At 200 and 300 the group size is proportional to the range. HOWEVER, at 600 I am getting an 18" vertical string but are in a straight line. I don't know if it is the load, rifle, or just the guy running it. I will try 175 SMKs next to see if the 600 group improves. Hope this helps the LTR shooters. If I'm not hijacking this thread any thoughts on my vertical string would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Coletta]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compact45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an LTR that really likes 168 SMKs loaded with 45.1g of Varget, Lapua case, WLR primer, and COL of 2.80. This load will put five shots in one ragged hole at 100. At 200 and 300 the group size is proportional to the range. HOWEVER, at 600 I am getting an 18" vertical string but are in a straight line. I don't know if it is the load, rifle, or just the guy running it. I will try 175 SMKs next to see if the 600 group improves. Hope this helps the LTR shooters. If I'm not hijacking this thread any thoughts on my vertical string would be appreciated. Thanks. </div></div>

The 175's could eliminate your problem. For me,168's were the tightest rounds for short range, but the 175's took over at 600

 

[Compact45]

Re: Reloading for .308

Thanks Coletta, I'll give them a try.

 

[Sniperhandle]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use an old RCBS inertial puller - whch is one of the units that looks like a hammer. The hammerhead is hollow, and has a collet captivated by a thread-on cap. The collet catches on the extraction groove of the case. You smack the hammer on a concrete floor, and the bullet's inertia pulls the bullet out of the case as the hammer comes to a stop against the floor. The bullet and powder are caught inside the hammerhead.

These work great on SMKs and Lapua Scenars, but I've recently learned they ruin amaxs.

You can also get a die for your press that has a lever-engaged collet that grabs the bullet. I imagine (though I've never used one) this type won't damage ballistic tip bullets such as the amax. </div></div>

A little trick to not damaging bullets when using an inertia type puller, is to place a foam ear plug inside the puller and push it all the way to the bottom, when the bullet comes out, it hits the foam plug and saves the tips of the bullets from being deformed and can be used again.

 

[adam3999]

Re: Reloading for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with 42grs RE15 and seat your bullets @2.800-2.820", you should be set. </div></div>

+1

With my Rem 700 SPS-V 26", the QuickLoad/OBT method gave me 42.7gr RL-15 as the sweet spot for the node closest to 2600fps where the 168 SMK shines. Shooting groups of 5 rounds at 42.1, 42.4, 42.7, 43 and 43.3gr, I was very happy with 43.0gr. Four out of five shots in one ragged hole measuring just under 0.25 MOA at 200yds. All five shots together was right at 0.5 MOA.

168gr SMK
43.0gr RL-15
Winchester brand brass - 1x fire-formed and neck-sized
Federal 210M primers
2.005" trim
2.800" COAL

Using the same methodology with the 155 SMK (old style 2155), QuickLoad/OBT gave me 43.2gr RL-15. Similar to the load described above, the next 0.3gr increment up was the sweet spot -- 43.5gr. This group had no fliers but was spaced out a little coming in at just under 0.5 MOA at 200yd. These 155s have noticeably less recoil than the 168s. I will definitely continue to investigate both. Next stop--tweaking seating depths. Today was a good day at the range.

155gr SMK (2155)
43.5gr RL-15
Winchester brand brass - 1x fire-formed and neck-sized
Federal 210M primers
2.005" trim
2.775" COAL

Happy reloading!