I have reloaded for a number of years, but primarily for shooting whitetail at less than 100 yards. I have always achieved what I consider accurate loads (< 1" @100) with most of my hunting rifles. After watching this site for a period of time, I got a wild hair to try my hand at longer ranges. I don't have the fancy gear when it comes to reloading...just the basic Rock Chucker press and standard RCBS dies. Out of my .308 Remington SPS Varmint my handloads have been less than 1 MOA out to 300 yards. I have not grouped any past there so I am not sure how it performs at longer ranges. Would it serve me well to ditch the standard dies in favor of the more expensive seating dies? I have been reading about runout and have never measured for this in the past since my loads have served me well. Now that we are talking about longer ranges this stuff seems to matter more. Basically, I want to make sure I am doing everything I can to make sure it's shooter error and not the rifle or bullet. Are there any other tips for more accurate loading? I have been using trimmed and sized Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primers, Varget powder and 175gr MatchKing bullets.
- Thread starter jpistolero02
- Start date
Re: Reloading for distance
You have a great recipe going for your 308 loads. The standard full length sizer and seater dies will do you fine. I loaded on them for a few years shooting comps for my 300WM. Just work up an accurate load that your rifle likes, and shoot the heck out of it. I would test your loads at 300, and go from there.
I miss being down in the hill country of Texas. Been to the Salt Lick lately? I'd be there several times a month if I lived where you did. That's my favorite place to eat anywhere.
You have a great recipe going for your 308 loads. The standard full length sizer and seater dies will do you fine. I loaded on them for a few years shooting comps for my 300WM. Just work up an accurate load that your rifle likes, and shoot the heck out of it. I would test your loads at 300, and go from there.
I miss being down in the hill country of Texas. Been to the Salt Lick lately? I'd be there several times a month if I lived where you did. That's my favorite place to eat anywhere.
Re: Reloading for distance
Thanks for the reply. I guess I will shoot some groups a little further out before I go crazy buying stuff.
I haven't been over there in a few months. It is a great place to go enjoy some BBQ.
Here is a picture from this weekend just to give you some Texas Hill Country for the day. I was shooting at the little white dot in the distance that lasered a 890 yards. It was certainly a humbling experience. I haven't attempted anything over 300 until then. To say my wind skills are lacking would be an understatement for sure. Maybe one of these days I will get the hang of it all.
Thanks for the reply. I guess I will shoot some groups a little further out before I go crazy buying stuff.
I haven't been over there in a few months. It is a great place to go enjoy some BBQ.
Here is a picture from this weekend just to give you some Texas Hill Country for the day. I was shooting at the little white dot in the distance that lasered a 890 yards. It was certainly a humbling experience. I haven't attempted anything over 300 until then. To say my wind skills are lacking would be an understatement for sure. Maybe one of these days I will get the hang of it all.
Re: Reloading for distance
Nice pic! Thanks for the tease! Send me an email when you get a chance.
Nice pic! Thanks for the tease! Send me an email when you get a chance.
Re: Reloading for distance
Hey,
If you read my LONG "posts" [articles] in the link below I detail THE most accurate way to work up a long range load, other useful long range loading tips, and I even mention how to tune standard dies for long range loading.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...449#Post1686449
Hey,
If you read my LONG "posts" [articles] in the link below I detail THE most accurate way to work up a long range load, other useful long range loading tips, and I even mention how to tune standard dies for long range loading.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...449#Post1686449
Re: Reloading for distance
Thanks TresMon. I have read this thread a few times because it was so helpful. Next time out I am going try the ladder test.
Thanks TresMon. I have read this thread a few times because it was so helpful. Next time out I am going try the ladder test.
Re: Reloading for distance
I'm new to long range reloading,too, and have very similar equipment and rifle. Using said low tech dies, etc, I took loads and rifle out and shot at 1,000 yards on Saturday for the first time. While I didn't get the first round hit I was hoping for on a 12" diameter plate, I did get a 3rd round hit in strong, gusty, swirling winds.
In my 700 in .308, I'm getting 1/2 moa at 200yds. I didn't shoot a group at 1,000, but I'll bet it's no worse than 1 moa with low wind. I'll bet your current gear will be fine.
I'm new to long range reloading,too, and have very similar equipment and rifle. Using said low tech dies, etc, I took loads and rifle out and shot at 1,000 yards on Saturday for the first time. While I didn't get the first round hit I was hoping for on a 12" diameter plate, I did get a 3rd round hit in strong, gusty, swirling winds.
In my 700 in .308, I'm getting 1/2 moa at 200yds. I didn't shoot a group at 1,000, but I'll bet it's no worse than 1 moa with low wind. I'll bet your current gear will be fine.
Re: Reloading for distance
Do you mind me asking what load you were using?
Do you mind me asking what load you were using?
Re: Reloading for distance
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpistolero02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you mind me asking what load you were using? </div></div>
168g SMK's
43.5g Varget
Lapua Brass
Fed Primers
COAL 2.810
MV = 2650fps @ 40°F
1/2" groups at 100yds
1" groups at 200 yds
1,000 yard data in two weeks.
First loading was with virgin brass. FL resized with Lyman die, bullet seated also with Lyman die. Dies and press were purchased new in 1983. My chamber has a ton of freebore, so I'm a good 0.100" off the lands.
I'm just getting ready for the second loading. I was going to FL size again but got a deal on a neck size die and a body die so am going to try them. I'm about 99.9% certain that if I FL size them again I'll get the same good results. I'm hoping to improve accuracy a bit with the neck die, but my real motive is to make my expensive Lapua brass last a little longer. We'll see.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpistolero02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you mind me asking what load you were using? </div></div>
168g SMK's
43.5g Varget
Lapua Brass
Fed Primers
COAL 2.810
MV = 2650fps @ 40°F
1/2" groups at 100yds
1" groups at 200 yds
1,000 yard data in two weeks.
First loading was with virgin brass. FL resized with Lyman die, bullet seated also with Lyman die. Dies and press were purchased new in 1983. My chamber has a ton of freebore, so I'm a good 0.100" off the lands.
I'm just getting ready for the second loading. I was going to FL size again but got a deal on a neck size die and a body die so am going to try them. I'm about 99.9% certain that if I FL size them again I'll get the same good results. I'm hoping to improve accuracy a bit with the neck die, but my real motive is to make my expensive Lapua brass last a little longer. We'll see.
Re: Reloading for distance
It's good that you have a load that stays sub MOA out to 300 yards. First, I keep your current so called "standard" dies. Obviously, it's working for you. Secondly, just because a load stays sub MOA at 300 yards, it may not do so at 1K. Only way to find out is to shoot it. Just remember, at 1K, your groupings will also reflect the ability and "habits" of the shooter as well. So unless you are shooting F class, and try to get 3 in group at 1K, I wouldn't worry too much about the dies.
It's good that you have a load that stays sub MOA out to 300 yards. First, I keep your current so called "standard" dies. Obviously, it's working for you. Secondly, just because a load stays sub MOA at 300 yards, it may not do so at 1K. Only way to find out is to shoot it. Just remember, at 1K, your groupings will also reflect the ability and "habits" of the shooter as well. So unless you are shooting F class, and try to get 3 in group at 1K, I wouldn't worry too much about the dies.
Re: Reloading for distance
Tim k,
You seem to be new to long range... I'll bet all the money in my wallet your .5moa 200 yards load will not come close to holding 1 moa @ 1000. There are short range loads that do good, and don't do good at long range. and their are long range loads, that practically never do good at short range- but it's like a 1 in 100 ratio that a load will excel at both short and long ranges.
Read this:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...862#Post1691862
[edit: having reread your load data, 168's @ an intial velocity you stated in your load data- it's 50/50 they'll not be tumbling @ 1000. Never go lighter than a 175 grain bullet for 1000.]
I'm not flaming. I just have real experience at this stuff. I'll help anyway I can. We shoot 1000 yards every monday night. And 168's are the worst performing bullet ever in the transonic region.
I built a new rifle this past winter for this year's 1000 yard matches. I'm not done with load development, but I have two different loads that shoot .25 moa @ 400 yards. But tonight on the 1000 yards line, they BARELY held 2 moa. ! have more load work to do....
Tim k,
You seem to be new to long range... I'll bet all the money in my wallet your .5moa 200 yards load will not come close to holding 1 moa @ 1000. There are short range loads that do good, and don't do good at long range. and their are long range loads, that practically never do good at short range- but it's like a 1 in 100 ratio that a load will excel at both short and long ranges.
Read this:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...862#Post1691862
[edit: having reread your load data, 168's @ an intial velocity you stated in your load data- it's 50/50 they'll not be tumbling @ 1000. Never go lighter than a 175 grain bullet for 1000.]
I'm not flaming. I just have real experience at this stuff. I'll help anyway I can. We shoot 1000 yards every monday night. And 168's are the worst performing bullet ever in the transonic region.
I built a new rifle this past winter for this year's 1000 yard matches. I'm not done with load development, but I have two different loads that shoot .25 moa @ 400 yards. But tonight on the 1000 yards line, they BARELY held 2 moa. ! have more load work to do....
Re: Reloading for distance
Tim K, that load is crap and would only reach 1000 yards supersonically in Colorado, lke maybe near Woodland Park.
The 168gr SMK is notorious and the poster child for bullets that lose stability during transonic flight regime. It's a great bullet to 600 yards where most people live, but after that, it's a crap shoot.
In Texas, we have to do things a little more down to Earth and rule #1 is no 168gr SMK to 1000 yards.
Tim K, that load is crap and would only reach 1000 yards supersonically in Colorado, lke maybe near Woodland Park.
The 168gr SMK is notorious and the poster child for bullets that lose stability during transonic flight regime. It's a great bullet to 600 yards where most people live, but after that, it's a crap shoot.
In Texas, we have to do things a little more down to Earth and rule #1 is no 168gr SMK to 1000 yards.
Re: Reloading for distance
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tim K, that load is crap and would only reach 1000 yards supersonically in Colorado, lke maybe near Woodland Park.
The 168gr SMK is notorious and the poster child for bullets that lose stability during transonic flight regime. It's a great bullet to 600 yards where most people live, but after that, it's a crap shoot.
In Texas, we have to do things a little more down to Earth and rule #1 is no 168gr SMK to 1000 yards. </div></div>
Ballistic FTE predicts it staying above the transonic region past 1250 yards. There are very few things where performance improves with altitude, but rifle ballistics are one of them. It does help to be shooting at 8,900 ft.
This load was developed primarily to shoot tactical comps not exceeding 500 yards. I'll see how it performs at that task this Saturday. If I continue the long distance thing, I'll try a more appropriate bullet.
To the OP, sorry your thread got hijacked.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tim K, that load is crap and would only reach 1000 yards supersonically in Colorado, lke maybe near Woodland Park.
The 168gr SMK is notorious and the poster child for bullets that lose stability during transonic flight regime. It's a great bullet to 600 yards where most people live, but after that, it's a crap shoot.
In Texas, we have to do things a little more down to Earth and rule #1 is no 168gr SMK to 1000 yards. </div></div>
Ballistic FTE predicts it staying above the transonic region past 1250 yards. There are very few things where performance improves with altitude, but rifle ballistics are one of them. It does help to be shooting at 8,900 ft.
This load was developed primarily to shoot tactical comps not exceeding 500 yards. I'll see how it performs at that task this Saturday. If I continue the long distance thing, I'll try a more appropriate bullet.
To the OP, sorry your thread got hijacked.
Re: Reloading for distance
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tim k,
You seem to be new to long range... I'll bet all the money in my wallet your .5moa 200 yards load will not come close to holding 1 moa @ 1000. There are short range loads that do good, and don't do good at long range. and their are long range loads, that practically never do good at short range- but it's like a 1 in 100 ratio that a load will excel at both short and long ranges.
</div></div>
I'm not Tim K but I'll take you up on your bet. EVERY load that I've developed so far that has shot very well at 100 yds has also shot extremely well at 1000yds. Maybe I've just been lucky, but the loads I've settled on by testing at 100 have held roughly true in accuracy all the way to 1K.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tim k,
You seem to be new to long range... I'll bet all the money in my wallet your .5moa 200 yards load will not come close to holding 1 moa @ 1000. There are short range loads that do good, and don't do good at long range. and their are long range loads, that practically never do good at short range- but it's like a 1 in 100 ratio that a load will excel at both short and long ranges.
</div></div>
I'm not Tim K but I'll take you up on your bet. EVERY load that I've developed so far that has shot very well at 100 yds has also shot extremely well at 1000yds. Maybe I've just been lucky, but the loads I've settled on by testing at 100 have held roughly true in accuracy all the way to 1K.
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