Reloading for semi-308 differences?

[timelinex]

Just picked up a JP lrp-07 in 308. I currently load for my bolt action savage with great success. I plan on starting to load for the semi as well. I don't expect benchrest accurat as its not a benchrest gun, but I was hoping for the rifle to be capable of .5moa with my reloads.

Is there anything different that I should be doing, other than insuring to full size everytime and not load into the land?

A couple specific questions too:

1. Currently I have nice redding dies and forster competition seater. Will those do , or do I have to get a small base die that I have read about before?

2. I think I've read that leveling/cleaning the primer pockets and deburring the flash holes on brass is a waste of time for semi's, correct?

3. What brass should I use. I think most recommend lake city. Should I buy new LC brass or once fired from places like wideners is fine?

4. The powders I have on hand that I think would apply are varget and 8208xbr, which would be a better place to start (barrel is 18").

Thanks!

 

[redbullitt]

Get a small base when it seems like you need it lol. FWIW my rifle has done fine with standard dies, so thats what I use.

Brass prep is never a waste of time unless you don't have the time. To me it just depends on my needs for the rifle. For my semi I do the same brass prep as with my bolt. I get very good results, so I just do it. It can be annoying to put that effort in and then have the rifle toss is in the high grass lol.

Any brass should be just fine. Again, the subject of brass tossing comes up. I use once fired in my gasser simply because I lose cases often and the semi is not as gentle on brass. IE I would probably not use my lapua brass in it. Lake city, win, fed. They all get fed to my semi.

I have an 18 barrel on my gasser as well. Varget has worked great with 165-180 bullets. I usually shoot the smks or amax.

I have noticed that the semi seems to like a lower powder charge than my bolt. This is typical from what I understand, so do not expect to run the same load in bolt and semi.

Practice practice practice. Semi was very difficult for me at first. Eventually I have gotten used to it, but it does have a steeper learning curve that a bolt rifle. You have to make sure your form is very good, otherwise you will have consistency problem. Once you get good with the rifle I would think .5 moa is attainable. Do it in steps. Start at CONSISTENT sub 1.5 MOA, then 1.25, then 1.0 etc. Good luck!

 

[timelinex]

Get a small base when it seems like you need it lol. FWIW my rifle has done fine with standard dies, so thats what I use.

Brass prep is never a waste of time unless you don't have the time. To me it just depends on my needs for the rifle. For my semi I do the same brass prep as with my bolt. I get very good results, so I just do it. It can be annoying to put that effort in and then have the rifle toss is in the high grass lol.

Any brass should be just fine. Again, the subject of brass tossing comes up. I use once fired in my gasser simply because I lose cases often and the semi is not as gentle on brass. IE I would probably not use my lapua brass in it. Lake city, win, fed. They all get fed to my semi.

I have an 18 barrel on my gasser as well. Varget has worked great with 165-180 bullets. I usually shoot the smks or amax.

I have noticed that the semi seems to like a lower powder charge than my bolt. This is typical from what I understand, so do not expect to run the same load in bolt and semi.

Practice practice practice. Semi was very difficult for me at first. Eventually I have gotten used to it, but it does have a steeper learning curve that a bolt rifle. You have to make sure your form is very good, otherwise you will have consistency problem. Once you get good with the rifle I would think .5 moa is attainable. Do it in steps. Start at CONSISTENT sub 1.5 MOA, then 1.25, then 1.0 etc. Good luck!

I've shot with my ar15 with good results, so hopefully that will transfer over to the ar10 platform. I understand follow through is very important and made sure to work on that. Anyways, when I refered to .5moa I was speaking of the rifle/ammo capable of it, not necessarily the nut behind it!

So your saying a small base die might not be needed? Would there be any disadvantages of getting and using one instead?

 

[FLIGHT762]

1- Your dies should be fine. Rarely do you need a S/B die. I reload for a SR-25 and GAP 10 and use regular Redding dies. Be sure you're bumping the shoulders back enough. I bump - .003"-.005". If you're sizing Machine Gun fired brass, you might need a S/B die. I use a Redding S/B body die if I really need to size more.

2- I do square the primer pockets for my precision gas guns. I don't deburr the flash hole, but do it if you like. It doesn't hurt.

3- L C brass works well along with other brass. The only brass that gets beat pretty bad for me is Federal GMM 308. I only get 2-4 reloads out of GMM. If you can get LC brass that hasn't been shot out of machine guns, it will last longer than MG brass. Most of the LC brass for sale is MG brass. The brass will last longer if you don't hot rod it. If you do, you'll toast out the primer pockets in 1 or 2 loads.

4- Your powders will work well. Just remember, gas guns will not handle as stout loads as a bolt gun will. I usually drop about 2 grains less than my bolt gun loads.

 

[mdmp5]

In 308 semi, I only have experience loading for an M1a. I do only load 223 for the AR15. But my experiences are quite different with respect to one another, mainly because of the different action. For the AR, I originally bought a couple hundred Lapua cases - yes, I loaded Lapua cases in an AR15. What I have found is that the Lapua brass didn't really yield me much of an advantage over the cat litter bucket full of mixed headstamp brass I have, other than some more uniformity when reloading. My 223 brass is the only brass I have found to get the occasional loose primer pocket, and some cases will not fall all the way into the case gauge. So I am a little hot with my loads, and it shows. A guy like me probably could use a small base die to remedy the case gauge issue, and maybe one day I will grab one.

For the M1a, I DO NOT use any brass worth a shit. I use the kitty litter bucket x-time fired Federal brass, as it probably doesn't have many more firings left in it anyway. Despite my mocking of the quality of this brass, I gotta tell you, 168 SMKs loaded with some care and tenacity shocked the hell out of me in their performance. The first day out with a standard barreled M1a and a Vortex PST, I was scoring repeatable hits on a piece of 6" steel at 500 yds. I was so excited that I built that rifle into an EBR with a Sage chassis (haven't shot it much since though). Anyway, the brass ejected from the rifle (if I could find it) was really beat to shit. Between the dents and the caked on carbon, I made the decision to scrap the brass fired through that rifle for all future range sessions.

That all being said, I am going to address each of your question to the best of my ability, through opinion via my own personal experience.

You can get ½ MOA from a gas gun. I haven't been able to do it repeatedly through my ARs, but I have shot some really tight groups with them, some less than ¼ MOA, but not consistently. I am sure that if I spent the time and resources, I could get them shooting really nice, but I spend most of my range sessions behind a bolt gun. There are some guys on this forum that can really kill it with an AR platform, and I have seen some groups that are truly impressive. It can be done, just not by me right now.

Full length size your brass each and every time, regardless if you are shooting a gas gun or a bolt action. You just make sure you are not setting the shoulder back an extreme amount each time and you will be fine. Neck sizing only went out with the hula hoop and spray deodorant. I never found any advantage to it, but encountered issues with it.

1. For a gas gun, a case gauge is probably not a bad idea. If you encounter cases that are inserting into the gauge smoothly, but that last piece of rim is sticking out, you have an oversized base. Then you might want to think about a small base die. For now, use the dies you have.

2. Primer pocket uniforming can be argued to be a waste of time with any rifle, including a bolt gun. The only time it may be necessary is if you have primer pockets that are so shallow that the primer protrudes outward. Deburring the flash holes is only necessary if you look in the case and see shards protruding, impeding the flash hole. By all means, clean this up.

3. Any brass should suffice. Just make sure your neck tension is adequate with the die you are using, as some brass is thinner than others. For example, Hornady 308 brass requires me to use a 333 bushing to get .002 of neck tension, while Lapua 308 brass requires a 336 bushing for .001-.002 of neck tension. Inspect your fired brass to ensure it is usable for another loading. If it gets beat to shit during the semi auto cycling, think about scrapping it. Most likely, you will be able to keep the majority of your cases for subsequent firings.

4. Varget is just fine, as is RL15, IMR4064 and a bunch of others, including your 8208, which I have no experience with, but it is a good universal powder. Are you asking a good place to start as far as powder charge? For Varget, I see no problem starting with about 42 grains on the very low side.

 

[Pat M]

My DPMS needed the small base dies, and an adjustable gas block helps a lot

 

[timelinex]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'll end up getting small base dies as added insurance and so that I have 2 308 dies and I dont have to adjust them in between my bolt and semi loadings.

 

[timelinex]

If you can get LC brass that hasn't been shot out of machine guns, it will last longer than MG brass. Most of the LC brass for sale is MG brass. The brass will last longer if you don't hot rod it. If you do, you'll toast out the primer pockets in 1 or 2 loads.

Do you know anything about this stuff: LINK

It looks reasonably priced, all the sme headsstamp, and says its factory test fire brass. I'm not sure what that means, maybe someone does. But i assume they don't test fire through machine guns...

 

[FLIGHT762]

I have seen this advertised. From the description, it is not likely to be M/G fired brass, unless the testing at Lake City was with Machine Guns. Before buying it, i would put a call into Widener's and speak to someone to be sure it isn't Machine Gun test brass. The price isn't too bad if it was fired out of bolt guns just to test lot accuracy.

 

[timelinex]

hmmm, just realized that they are all gonna have crimps. Even though I do have a swagger, thats gonna be a big hassle.


What about something like this:

Lake City 7.62 Brass - Processed | Texas Brassworks

It looks like its fully processed and even already all full sized. Would you guys recommend I full size it again with my dies just in case?

It doesn't seem like a bad deal at all.. still half the price of factory brass. Considering I should get atleast 5 more loadings , the difference in price per round between this and the cheapest unprepped LC brass is almost negligible.

Or if thats not a good idea, I've found this:

http://brassbombers.com/308-762-LC-Long-Range-Cleaned-500-Pieces-7627-1-0000.htm


From my understanding LR brass is higher quality in general, and on top of that it doesn't have crimped primer pockets... (EDIT: just realized its out of stock)

 

[MJP68]

I struggled with hand loads for my semi auto .308 for several months, most manuals for .308 loads are based on bolt rifles.. as stated already start at least 2gr below min
and work up or down from there. I use the small base dies in my single stage.
As far as acquiring brass with a known history.. look for some live Lake City 7.62/51 mil surp and use them to get used to your new rifle before expecting tight groups.
My rifle had no issues with cycling or accuracy with any OE ammo but my reloads were to "hot" and caused cycling issues until I backed way off on the powder charge.
just my 2c.

 

[samnev]

i haven't noticed much of a difference in group size or case longevity with LC, LC match, Federal, Winchester or RP brass. I do full length resize and trim every time i resize. I only use Lapua 308 brass in my TRG or AIAW. I keep all my loads in the moderate range because that is where I get the best groups. However I do segregate my brass by brand after reloading.

 

[No1]

For consistent 1/2 moa ammo (if your rifle is capable),
Do not use an expander on the neck. I use a full length bushing die and set the shoulder back .003". A regular die will work without the expander but you will be over working the neck.
Competition seater.
I sort by runnout.
I get the same results with LC brass, Winchester, or Hornady for my precision work. Same bullets same charge of powder. All other cases get used for spray and pray ammo.
If you want more precision case prep is where it's at.

 

[timelinex]

For consistent 1/2 moa ammo (if your rifle is capable),
Do not use an expander on the neck. I use a full length bushing die and set the shoulder back .003". A regular die will work without the expander but you will be over working the neck.
Competition seater.
I sort by runnout.
I get the same results with LC brass, Winchester, or Hornady for my precision work. Same bullets same charge of powder. All other cases get used for spray and pray ammo.
If you want more precision case prep is where it's at.

Are you saying you can mix your brass brands and get good groups, as long as you do the case prep?

I thought lc brass is thicker and would require less charge for the same poi

 

[No1]

Yes, those are my results. Your mileage may vary.
I worked up loads with commercial brass. Then reworked with LC brass, some of late 6X- early 7X series and some mid-9X series. And ended up with the same powder charge, group size and velocity. It hasn't always been that easy.
Loading for AR10T.

 

[timelinex]

Interesting... I have a small drawer full of mixed 308 range brass I've collected over the years. Might have to give that a try sometime.

Even if it only gives 1moa, that's still great for some the times I would be shooting at steel using different positional shooting.

 

[forrestgump01]

If you have a LE Wilson trimmer , flip the case around and trim / square the back / base of the case . Semi's are violent in nature when they eject a case and will tweak it out of square. When you trim it you will notice it will take 1-2 thousandth off of one side on the headstamp . I was taught that by hook bouton who was the go to guy for competitive shooting with m1a's

 

[FLIGHT762]

Are you saying you can mix your brass brands and get good groups, as long as you do the case prep?

I thought lc brass is thicker and would require less charge for the same poi

For my GAP 10 and SR-25, I use the same case prep and use Redding S bushing dies as I do with my Precision bolt Rifles. My GAP 10 is a .5 MOA or sometimes better shooting Rifle. The SR-25 is a 1 MOA Rifle. I do NOT mix brass for precision loads. I will tell you this, I can shoot 43.0 grains of AR Comp with a 155 Match bullet in a Winchester or Hornady case with no problems. If I shoot that same load in a Federal GMM case, I will blow primer pockets.

If you want to use a conservative load in mixed brass, you might get a load that will shoot 1 MOA, or if your very lucky maybe better. If I want better ammo than that, I segregate cases and use the same prep I do for accurate bolt guns. This has worked out for me.

 

[timelinex]

Ok guys, fast forward a few months and I have started load development. I bought 1x fired brass with crimp already removed (mix of LC and SBS mostly). The biggest portion is SBS so I started with that. Looks like my node will be around 43.5-44.5gr varget behind my 175smk's. I seated the bullets to be 2.815 which is the standard semi 308 size.

Here are the results:



I'm fairly sure the 44.5 flier can be disqualified because the primer backed out on that shot. I don't think its from pressure, but rather the pocket was probably over swagged.

Anyways. Whats my next step? On my bolt rifles I would generally just pick a charge in the middle of that node, like 44gr and then load a bunch up of different seating depths. However, seating depth seems pretty set on ARs, right?

What would you guys do next?

 

[timelinex]

So do you guys play with seating depth for your Ar's or not?

 

[ArmyJerry]

If you shoot SMK's seating is not as important as others like the amax, I would just stick with 2.8 OAL for the AR. If you do start messing with the seating depth get the Hornady tool to measure the throat.

 

[Screwgunner]

If you shoot SMK's seating is not as important as others like the amax, I would just stick with 2.8 OAL for the AR. If you do start messing with the seating depth get the Hornady tool to measure the throat.

9

 

[Screwgunner]

my best load for my ar is 42 gr. Of 3031 and a 168 gr a max . Gives me one bug hole at 100 yards with 5 rounds. 2.8 o.a.l.

 

[Screwgunner]

my best load for my ar is 42 gr. Of 3031 and a 168 gr a max . Gives me one bug hole at 100 yards with 5 rounds. 2.8 o.a.l.

Winchester brass .

 

[whatsupdoc]

You replied to a 8 year old post and you quoted a Banned member.