Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

[Josh-L]

If I build a Remington 700 in 223 and put an 18 inch barrel on it will it be able to shoot at least moa out 800 yards? If not 800 will it at least do moa at 600?

Edit to add will be shooting Black Hills 69 gr SMKs and barrel is a 1/7 twist.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

Depends on who builds it and who shoots it etc. I think you should consider the 77 or 80 grain SMK. A well built .223 will hold MOA to 1000 with the right bullets. That is barring wind which is not easily barred.
Do you have any rifles that hold MOA to 800 now. If not, this one will not likely do it either. At LR there is a learning curve and driver error figures in as well.

 

[dimar1492]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

Well said, building a rifle that can do it is the easy part.

 

[Josh-L]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

I have only shot past 600 once so I really can't say if my 308 will shoot moa at anything further then 600 but it can at 600. I was thinking of going to a 223 for the lighter weight and cheaper ammo and lighter recoil. I almost never shoot further then 600 so I was thinking I'd be ok with a 223. A class I will be attending though shoots out to 800 but I think that's more to just do it and the qual for the class is only to 600. Do you think the 18 inch barrel is ok or should I go with a 20? I will check the 77 SMKs out also.

 

[dimar1492]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

There won't be much difference wether you go with an 18 or 20 inch barrel. But if you have a 1-7inch twist barrel definately check out the heavier bullets as rth recommended,will help you with the wind a little as you will already be at a disadvantage shooting a .223 at those ranges

 

[Thud]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

I shoot a 223 with 90 gr. bergers and a 7 twist barrel. It will shoot well at 100,200,300, 400 opens up, 500 will hit gong small gong 3" one 3 for 5, 600 large 12"8 out of 10, small 4" 2 out of 8. Wind will be the killer and don't forget the wounderful Texas and Oklahoma Mirage. If I was to do it over again I would go 223AI extra case capicity more speed. Might still do it, just ream and blow the cases out. Try it what do you have to lose. Let us know.

 

[jagged77]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

I have a 700 SPS 1:9, 20" barrel in AICS stock. I have shot it out to 800 yards and it held MOA. Tried it at 1000 but couldn't get on the plate (couldn't spot the shots into grass unfortunately). It is something I will try again but I'm sure the round goes subsonic around 900 yards. Great fun at that sort of range with a .223!

 

[josephberry]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

.223 AI, 21 inch barrel, 75 grain amax, this is how I will set my next one up. I am currently shooting a 1-9 sps T with the 69 grain MK and it does well out to 600.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

I just finished my .223 build, it shoots fantastic, definately moa out to 1000, I almost made some hits at 1300 yesterday. check it out.
I shoot 75 Amax and 24.5 gr RL-15 out of a 20 inch 7.7 twist.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

Not likely at 800. 600 should be fine.

 

[dustingaunder]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

Have Steve cut it for 223AI Josh. I'd leave the barrel at 26 though. I bet it will shoot MOA. The wind is gonna be the bitch.

 

[SuperSeal110]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

I'd op for heavier bullets. 75gr Amax would be my choice.

I shoot them them in (3) different .223ai's and 1 AR and have no problem holding MOA out to 1k.

Fuck the long 26" tubes, 21"/22" is all you need. My original .223ai started with a 26" and it's now 22". Didn't gain nothing but a shit ton of useless weight...

He's a quick 5 shots from 1k with a pencil thin .223ai w/a 21" tube from a couple weeks back... Prior to this group, I was ringing steel at 500/600 one after another. Bet the barrel had 15rds through it before I shot this group.

Wind is no issue with the 75gr Amax.

 

[Josh-L]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

Cool. I think I'll try 22 and if I can do it fairly easy I'll chop it down to 20.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

.223AI = a way of increasing die cost, wearing your barrel and wallet out fire forming while increasing case capacity 5-7% and allowing you to increase velocity 3% safely, or 15% if you drink the AI coolaid.
Remember the laws of physics will not be wrong, 7% more capicity, 3% more velocity. Anything else is over pressure, which can be done just as unsafely with a standard cartridge. And cheaper.
IF you want a bigger case, try a fast twist 22-250, which will not need AI'ed either.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.223AI = a way of increasing die cost, wearing your barrel and wallet out fire forming while increasing case capacity 5-7% and allowing you to increase velocity 3% safely, or 15% if you drink the AI coolaid.
Remember the laws of physics will not be wrong, 7% more capicity, 3% more velocity. Anything else is over pressure, which can be done just as unsafely with a standard cartridge. And cheaper.
IF you want a bigger case, try a fast twist 22-250, which will not need AI'ed either.

</div></div>

+1 on the 20-21 inch barrels.
rth1800, I avoided the AI koolaid as you put it, and I haven't looked back yet.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperSeal110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd op for heavier bullets. 75gr Amax would be my choice.
I shoot them them in (3) different .223ai's and 1 AR and have no problem holding MOA out to 1k.
Fuck the long 26" tubes, 21"/22" is all you need. My original .223ai started with a 26" and it's now 22". Didn't gain nothing but a shit ton of useless weight...

He's a quick 5 shots from 1k with a pencil thin .223ai w/a 21" tube from a couple weeks back... Prior to this group, I was ringing steel at 500/600 one after another. Bet the barrel had 15rds through it before I shot this group.

Wind is no issue with the 75gr Amax.

</div></div>

IF he wants to be shooting at bloody massive steel plates he probably will not notice issues going subsonic/transonic IF he shoots in the right conditions/altitude. and of course IF his gun is "fast" and IF he does not mind pushing pressures and IF...

22 inch is pushing it for long range .223. Anyone stating otherwise is pushing something they lack knowledge on. Using the AI version, which is JUST fast enough that you MAY not see the issues, to support going short on a .223 is really misleading, unhelpful and not at all accurate.
FYI, wind IS an issue with the .223 at 1K. Very strange for anyone to claim it's not.

(From someone who uses the .223 out to 1K and has just bought a M10PC...)

 

[JamieD]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

I built my personal .223 with a 1-8 twist Bartlien barrel and kept it 22" and I have no problem to 1000. It shoots the 75 A-max and sits in an AI stock for the new AI mag.

I still train with it and have no problem taking it to matches. It does teach you to look more at the enviroment but with a BC of .435 and speeds of 2900 to 3000 fps it levels the playing field with .308's in both wind and drop. It might not beat it, but it's in there.

I don't regret going 22" on length. Greatest learning tool I own. I don't see a problem for the caliber to hold .5MOA to 800.

Good Luck,
JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994

 

[223ai]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IF he wants to be shooting at bloody massive steel plates he probably will not notice issues going subsonic/transonic IF he shoots in the right conditions/altitude. and of course IF his gun is "fast" and IF he does not mind pushing pressures and IF...

22 inch is pushing it for long range .223. Anyone stating otherwise is pushing something they lack knowledge on. Using the AI version, which is JUST fast enough that you MAY not see the issues, to support going short on a .223 is really misleading, unhelpful and not at all accurate.
FYI, wind IS an issue with the .223 at 1K. Very strange for anyone to claim it's not.

(From someone who uses the .223 out to 1K and has just bought a M10PC...)</div></div>

The whole reason I went 223ai was to get longer barrel velocity out of a 22 inch barrel. I get 2925 fps out of formed brass, 80gr bergers, and a 22 inch Rock barrel...all of which are more than enough to hold MOA to 1000, let alone 800. I know for a fact that I can load them a bit hotter and get to 2950ish with no pressure problems in my rifle. I have 4 firings (including the forming) on my current lot of Lapua brass, and the primer pockets are still as tight as the first loading.

According to my ballistic calculator:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>+----------------------------- Program Inputs ---------------------------------+
| |
+---- Bullet Inputs -----+----Atmosphere Inputs ----+-------Sight Inputs ------+
| Caliber: 0.224 inches | Temperature: 85 degrees | Sight Height: 1.5 inches |
| Weight: 80 grains | Pressure: 29.92 inHg | Zero Range: 100 yards |
| G7 BC: 0.228 lb/in^2 | Humidity: 35 % | Look Angle: 0 degrees |
| G7 Form Factor: 0.999 | Density: 0.07243 lb/ft^3 | |
| MZL Velocity: 2925 fps| Wind Speed: 10 mph | |
| | Wind Direction: 3 O'clock| |
+------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+


+----------------------------- Program Output ---------------------------------+
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (MILS) (sec) (MILS)
0 2925 1520 0.00 0.0000 0.00
100 2726 1320 0.00 0.1062 -0.18
200 2534 1140 -0.44 0.2204 -0.37
300 2350 981 -1.09 0.3433 -0.58
400 2174 839 -1.86 0.4760 -0.81
500 2005 714 -2.72 0.6197 -1.05
600 1844 604 -3.70 0.7757 -1.31
700 1688 506 -4.81 0.9458 -1.59
800 1539 421 -6.06 1.1319 -1.90
900 1396 346 -7.49 1.3366 -2.25
1000 1260 282 -9.14 1.5628 -2.63
</pre></div></div>

The drop and wind is near identical to my .308 pushing 155's at 2900fps, with less powder, less recoil, a lot less trimming, and less muzzle blast.

 

[SuperSeal110]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IF he wants to be shooting at bloody massive steel plates he probably will not notice issues going subsonic/transonic IF he shoots in the right conditions/altitude. and of course IF his gun is "fast" and IF he does not mind pushing pressures and IF...

22 inch is pushing it for long range .223. Anyone stating otherwise is pushing something they lack knowledge on. Using the AI version, which is JUST fast enough that you MAY not see the issues, to support going short on a .223 is really misleading, unhelpful and not at all accurate.
FYI, wind IS an issue with the .223 at 1K. Very strange for anyone to claim it's not.

(From someone who uses the .223 out to 1K and has just bought a M10PC...)</div></div>

The whole reason I went 223ai was to get longer barrel velocity out of a 22 inch barrel. I get 2925 fps out of formed brass, 80gr bergers, and a 22 inch Rock barrel...all of which are more than enough to hold MOA to 1000, let alone 800. I know for a fact that I can load them a bit hotter and get to 2950ish with no pressure problems in my rifle. I have 4 firings (including the forming) on my current lot of Lapua brass, and the primer pockets are still as tight as the first loading.

According to my ballistic calculator:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>+----------------------------- Program Inputs ---------------------------------+
| |
+---- Bullet Inputs -----+----Atmosphere Inputs ----+-------Sight Inputs ------+
| Caliber: 0.224 inches | Temperature: 85 degrees | Sight Height: 1.5 inches |
| Weight: 80 grains | Pressure: 29.92 inHg | Zero Range: 100 yards |
| G7 BC: 0.228 lb/in^2 | Humidity: 35 % | Look Angle: 0 degrees |
| G7 Form Factor: 0.999 | Density: 0.07243 lb/ft^3 | |
| MZL Velocity: 2925 fps| Wind Speed: 10 mph | |
| | Wind Direction: 3 O'clock| |
+------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+


+----------------------------- Program Output ---------------------------------+
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (MILS) (sec) (MILS)
0 2925 1520 0.00 0.0000 0.00
100 2726 1320 0.00 0.1062 -0.18
200 2534 1140 -0.44 0.2204 -0.37
300 2350 981 -1.09 0.3433 -0.58
400 2174 839 -1.86 0.4760 -0.81
500 2005 714 -2.72 0.6197 -1.05
600 1844 604 -3.70 0.7757 -1.31
700 1688 506 -4.81 0.9458 -1.59
800 1539 421 -6.06 1.1319 -1.90
900 1396 346 -7.49 1.3366 -2.25
1000 1260 282 -9.14 1.5628 -2.63
</pre></div></div>

The drop and wind is near identical to my .308 pushing 155's at 2900fps, with less powder, less recoil, a lot less trimming, and less muzzle blast.

</div></div>

Well said, JPipes. Yet, there's still people that don't get that...

Hell, I have 13 firings, on my current .223ai Lapua brass and they're still going strong.

AUJohn, Plz, share your experience with the .223 @ 1k. What bullet are you using?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

SuperSeal, It isnt a AI but my 223 21" Rock should be here tomorrow. With a bit of luck, I will have 1k data in a couple weeks

 

[SuperSeal110]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SuperSeal, It isnt a AI but my 223 21" Rock should be here tomorrow. With a bit of luck, I will have 1k data in a couple weeks

</div></div>

Niles, If you get down to Young anytime soon, shout me a PM. Pending on what I have going on, I'll make a trip as well.

Myself and my gf made a trip down to Young's last saturday to collect some 200-600yd data from our F class shoot near Ann Arbor on Sunday.

What's the spec's of the .223?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

1-7t 21" m24 contour droped in a mcmillan a5 runing the aics mags. Its going to be alittle on the heavy side

I will post pics when it arrives.

 

[SuperSeal110]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

Sounds just like mine, but I'm running M4 on mine and it's at 22".

With my NF, she weighs in at 14lbs, roughly.

Looking forward to some pictures.

 

[Bronco]

Re: Rem 700 in 223 hold moa at 800?

A guy that shoots the monthly 600 yd. f-class match uses a .223 with 90 gr. Bergers, also uses the same rifle for 1000 yd. Last weekend he shot a 197, 12 X on one relay. Rifle has a 30" heavy barrel and was set up to shoot this type of match.

My point with this is, in the right hands the .223 can be very accurate and competitive.
Build the rifle for the work it is intended for. An 18" barrel has it's place but so does a 26".