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Gunsmithing Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

MyM40A2

Private
Minuteman
Jul 27, 2011
63
0
52
Pasadena CA
www.csvca.com
Hello everyone,

As you can see from my post count I an new here. I have recently become re-interested in my rifle. What I have is a M40A2 clone that I made myself. Well I guess I shouldn't say made myself since I did not chamber and fit the barrel. But I basically did everything else on it.

She started out as a left handed Remington 26 inch 700VS heavy barrel in 308. At the time I was very interested in sniping and decided to build myself a M40A2. One day while out hunting in Arizona I "accidentally" came across McMillan's factory and decided to stop in and have a look around. As it turned out there wasn't much to look at other then a very small display area with only a few stocks and a reception area. The person who came out to talk to me (whose name I can not remember) mentioned that they had a stock I might be interested in. So he showed me the woodland camo A-2 stock that my Rem700 now resides in. The price was more then right and I left McMillan with a new A-2 stock. As soon as I got back to CA from AZ I glass bedded the barreled action into my new A-2 stock. Next came the scope. She is a Premier Reticle Leopold Vari-X III 6.5-20x50 mil dot Long Range M1. I ordered Badger Ordinance scope base, mounts, and oversized bolt knob. I lapped the rings and installed the scope. I then took my bolt to a gunsmith to have them install the Badger knob. I also lapped the bolt and did some other minor work on the bolt and lugs so that everything was smooth as glass. I also had the trigger adjusted down to 2lbs. (That is the only part that I could have done myself but didn't. At the time I didn't have enough confidence to mess with the trigger and to this day I wish I would have done it myself) I'm sure there are other little things that I did to her that can not remember at this time. But if I remember I will edit this post to reflect everything that was done.

Next came siting her in. I tried a few different manufacturers to see what worked and what didn't. Well to my surprise she shot sub moa with Federal Match 168gr. I figured I would have to load to get decent groups. Since I was getting sub moa with factory loads I figured I'd try loading to see if I could squeeze out any more performance out of her. I worked up 5 loads and did the whole accuracy testing bit and so on and so on. Nothing was that much better then the factory gold medal match from Federal so I stuck with that load and called it a day. (it was more like a couple of months but who's counting)

So far she is sighted in and can hit a 16-24 inch metal plate out to 700 yards. (That is the longest distance that my local range can go to) I know the rifle can go well beyond the 700. I just don't have a place to be able to get my scope dialed in beyond the 700 yard mark.

Well enough about my rifle. Here is my questions. I have since picked up an interest in shooting again after about 5-7 years away from guns. And now I am interested in hunting for Coyote, Deer and mainly Pig. I would love to use my M40A2 for pig, but as you can imagine she is waaaaaay toooo heavy to be hunmpin up and down hills all day on hunts and stocks. So I need to either buy a lighter 308 (and buying a new gun is Never a bad thing) or I can find a way to use this amazing rig I have built. So I essentially need to lighten her up to make her more carry friendly.

What I am researching doing is either cutting the barrel down to 20 inches and/or fluting this barrel. In my research I have found that the 308 was basically designed for a 20 inch barrel and that cutting off the extra 6 inches wont totally destroy the accuracy that she has right now. (which is better then I could have ever hoped for) Now fluting I'm not so sure about

What I need to know is how much weight could I save by cutting off the extra 6 inches? And how much could I save by having the heavy barrel fluted? And my last questions is how will doing either or both of these things effect my accuracy?

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance!
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

Cut it to 20" and flute it! Or just cut it to 20 and call it a day. The weight you save doesnt sound like a lot (might be close to a pound though on a heavy contour), but its allllll the way at the end of the barrel, so the gun feels like it lost twice the weight it actually did.

While youre at it you may as well get it threaded, because I will give it about 6mo max of hanging out here before you will be buying your first suppressor. And you will definitely appreciate the shorter barrel with a can on.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

all this intel on your rifle is worthless without pictures

however......you should know that different jobs demand different tools......if you are so weak as to not be able to muscle around with your go-fast sniper tool....whacking 6" off the end ain't getting you any glory........

its been a topic here for years....move on to the next topic and get a hunting rig or eat your wheaties
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

I forgot to mention that I believe it is a 1:12 twist but I can not remember and can not find any info anywhere even from Big Green to confirm that since they changed the offering in the 700VS. Can anyone confirm the 1:12 twist rate?

And....will the 1:12 twist have a negative effect if I shorten the barrel to 20 inches?
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

Unfortunately I live in CA and my state will not allow us to play with big boy toys! So no soup (err suppressor) for me!

Boy I tell ya that would be a dream come true if I could hunt suppressed!

From the research I have done I don't see any reason not to cut it to 20 inches. The loss of velocity of 150 fps is not enough to keep me from doing it. I'll probably cut to 20 then see how I like the weight and shift in center mass of the rifle. Plus it is the more affordable of the two option. Then if I still feel the need to shave off some weight I'll go to the fluting.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

wow....buying shit you know nothing about, and asking US here to divine and read the tea leaves.........wow
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

been my experience that when you shorten a barrel you dont know if it will negatively or positively affect or accuracy till you do it, ive personally seen it go both ways
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

I do not see a way to post pictures here unless I can link them to another website. And I don't have any pics up on any other website. If there is a way to load them directly to this site please let me know and I'll gladly post em.

As for the weight considerations, humping around a 13.25lb (and yes I just weighed it) rifle for hunting anything other then another human being is just plain unnecessary IMHO. Can it be done? yes, am I willing to do it? Hell no. Not when there are other alternatives out there.

Sure I can go buy a Howa combo with a POS nikko sterling scope for $599 that weighs 7.15 lbs. Will it take down a dear or a hog? Sure it will. But would I get as much satisfaction taking a hog with a Turners special as I would from taking a hog with the rifle that I built with my own hands? Of coarse not.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow....buying shit you know nothing about, and asking US here to divine and read the tea leaves.........wow </div></div>

My apologies if I can not remember the twist rate of every single firearm that I have purchased over the past 22 years. As for being able to devine and read tea leaves??? Well I just thought I would ask a question to people who I thought might know the answer. If you personally need to read the tea leaves to be able to answer a question I feel sorry for you. If you don't know the answer to the questions then just don't answer it. Just crawl back to your tea kettle and wait for a question that you do know the answer to.

Are there any black and white answers when it comes to accuracy? No! What works with one barreled action may not work for another of the same factory specs in the same exact situation. But when the same exact situation is replicated many times you can get a feel if something works or does not work. If you sir do not have the experience or knowledge to answer the question then WTF are you speaking up for?
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow....buying shit you know nothing about, and asking US here to divine and read the tea leaves.........wow </div></div>



. If you sir do not have the experience or knowledge to answer the question then WTF are you speaking up for?</div></div>




dude.............
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow....buying shit you know nothing about, and asking US here to divine and read the tea leaves.........wow </div></div>



. If you sir do not have the experience or knowledge to answer the question then WTF are you speaking up for?</div></div>




dude............. </div></div>

Intelligent comeback. Kudos Einstein

Please re-read my initial post that you quoted. Rinse and repeat.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: customgun1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">been my experience that when you shorten a barrel you dont know if it will negatively or positively affect or accuracy till you do it, ive personally seen it go both ways </div></div>

On the ones that you have seen negatively affect accuracy how bad was it? I've only heard from people that it very slightly affected accuracy. Nothing that couldn't be overcome by a new reload being worked up for the rifle. And the rest said that the accuracy was nearly the same. Just Crono'd slower. Which was or coarse expected.

I don't mind working up a new load. In fact I'm going to need to anyway because I want to switch from the Seirra 168gr. MatchKing to something with a little more stopping power for hunting I will be doing.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I need to know is how much weight could I save by cutting off the extra 6 inches?</div></div>

A bit over 1/2 a pound.
I'm local to you if you need the job done.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

Cut it down to 20", you'll love it. It may not be a ton of weight but its being removed from the best place possible.


Shortening a barrel will not hurt accuracy. Its increasing rigidity, increasing muzzle pressure slightly, and decreasing velocity slightly.

Muzzle pressure isnt helping but isnt a problem. 20" rifles shoot as well as any length.

There are reasons a rifle may not shoot well after being shortened, but the reason is NOT that its a shorter length.



Fluting it might hurt accuracy, but Im not going to say it will.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I need to know is how much weight could I save by cutting off the extra 6 inches?</div></div>

A bit over 1/2 a pound.
I'm local to you if you need the job done. </div></div>

Thank you, I am interested. What city are you in and where do you shoot locally?

You can send me a PM with contact info.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shortening a barrel will not hurt accuracy. Its increasing rigidity, increasing muzzle pressure, and decreasing velocity.

There are reasons a rifle may not shoot well after being shortened, but the reason is NOT that its a shorter length.



Fluting it might, I wont debate it either way. </div></div>

Thank you, I was reading about that earlier on the 6mmBR site.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shortening a barrel will not hurt accuracy. Its increasing rigidity, increasing muzzle pressure, and decreasing velocity.

There are reasons a rifle may not shoot well after being shortened, but the reason is NOT that its a shorter length.

Fluting it might, I wont debate it either way. </div></div>

^^ WHAT KEITH SAID!! ^^

As long as the work (cutting and recrowning) is performed by a competent smith (like Keith) and not some idiot in a garage or basement with a hacksaw and a dremel, you should lose between 0.5lbs to 0.75lbs of weight (maybe just a tad more if you go to 18" instead of 20") and not have any ill effects on the accuracy. Fluting is wasted at this point as you aren't going to lose much weight and you could easily screw up your barrel (although...its a factory tube, so it is no real loss if you do. Just replace it with a better barrel in a lighter contour of your chosing).
wink.gif


As far as the 1:12 twist goes with a shorter barrel (and reduced velocity that goes with it)...you MAY see some ill effects if you try running anything heavier than the 168gr pills and you may be able to safely/accurately get up to 175gr. The only way to know is to try them.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you, I am interested. What city are you in and where do you shoot locally?</div></div>

I help run the precision rifle matches at Angeles.
Best way to reach me is to sign up on caprc.com and you will easily find me there...
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as the 1:12 twist goes with a shorter barrel (and reduced velocity that goes with it)...you MAY see some ill effects if you try running anything heavier than the 168gr pills and you may be able to safely/accurately get up to 175gr. The only way to know is to try them. </div></div>

Agreed. Ive heard of people shooting up to the 190s with a 1-12, but I'd prefer a 1-10. Ive even heard of people using the 1-12 twist to shoot 208gr Amaxs! But... I dunno....

If its for hunting, Id stick with some 168 Gamekings if they make Gamekings in 168, or some Nosler ballistic tips in that weight range.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

Thanks Keith,

I just checked and they do not make a 168gr. Gameking but they do make a 175gr. I hope the gamekings shoot like the matchkings because my handloads were 175gr matchkings and shot extremely well. Maybe I will get lucky and the gamekings will shoot as well as my MK loads did. I have had good success with .22 Nosler Balistic Tips in a couple other rifles. They shot extremely well and the terminal performance was exceptional.

Any idea what the terminal performance on the Matchkings are like? I would guess they are pretty decent on game considering it used to be the standard bullet for a lot of snipers. If it can drop a man it should work for pigs and deer.
Anyone have any experience with Matchkings on game?
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have any experience with Matchkings on game? </div></div>

I am not about to go there.......... heres a link
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

Dont use matchkings on game.
I dont like the "hunting grade" Berger VLDs either. Not on coyotes anyways.

Gamekings are amazingly accurate. The times Ive seen them shot or I shot them myself I almost wondered, "why go back"(to SMKs)

Nosler ballistic tips are great terminally, and are accurate enough.




Hornady Amaxs......
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

If you are at all local to Randall (CAPRC), and he is offering to help, IMHO you should heed that. I have been learning from him online for years. I had Lawson of Tucson cut and crown my 700 to 22" for $35 and am thrilled with the results.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: carbinero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had Lawson of Tucson cut and crown my 700 to 22" for <span style="font-weight: bold">$35</span> and am thrilled with the results. </div></div>


Thats a hell of a price
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: carbinero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are at all local to Randall (CAPRC), and he is offering to help, IMHO you should heed that. I have been learning from him online for years. I had Lawson of Tucson cut and crown my 700 to 22" for $35 and am thrilled with the results. </div></div>

That is my plan!
wink.gif
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont use matchkings on game.
I dont like the "hunting grade" Berger VLDs either. Not on coyotes anyways.

Gamekings are amazingly accurate. The times Ive seen them shot or I shot them myself I almost wondered, "why go back"(to SMKs)

Nosler ballistic tips are great terminally, and are accurate enough.




Hornady Amaxs...... </div></div>

What I would like to know is if I could use my same exact load and just switch out the SMK to the SGK's and not loose accuracy. Meaning will they both shoot to the same point of impact because they are both the same weight and design?

Do you happen to know if switching form SMK to SGK works? Or does it basically act as an entirely new and different load?
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfjames22</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have any experience with Matchkings on game? </div></div>

I am not about to go there.......... heres a link </div></div>

Thank you for the link. Very interesting reading. And I have only begun to scratch the surface with that link.

what would be a good forum website for me check out for reloading/bullet performance/terminal ballistics in your opinion? Or I guess a better question would be what website do you go to for reloading and ballistic info? Yes I know I could do a google search and find many sites. But I would like to cut thru all the useless sites and focus on one or two that actually offers good information.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MyM40A2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I need to know is how much weight could I save by cutting off the extra 6 inches?</div></div>

A bit over 1/2 a pound.
I'm local to you if you need the job done. </div></div>

Is your home range Angeles Shooting Range?
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is your home range Angeles Shooting Range? </div></div>

Yes
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

I have not read the entire thread and it may have already been said, but the weight that fluting removes is neglagable, figures out to about a hundred bucks an ounce, plus a lot of guys here seem to think it looks cool, god knows why, to me it looks stupid.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

You'll more tan likely see a difference in the loads and pressures, going from 168gr to 175gr....best to start all over, or check the load tables at Sierra and see what they are recommending.
 
Re: Rem700 brl Fluting and or Length reducing? (Long)

I'm pretty sure Sierra makes a 165 Gameking. Best way to find out if the accuracy and POI is the same,.... shoot some to find out.

Nosler makes a 165 Ballistic tip that is scary accurate. Same with their 180 grain. They are just super proud of them and it reflects in the price.