Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

[Jason280]

I've owned several heavy barreled 700s over the years, from SPS and LTR .223s to fluted Sendero's in .300 Win Mag. I've also owned a couple of 700 5Rs in .308, and they have all shot reasonably well. The 5Rs have been consistently more accurate, although the standard 700s have shot sub MOA. In fact, I have a 20" tactical that is a solid 3/4" rifle, and has held its own against my 5Rs. But, as I mentioned, the 5Rs have always been consistently more accurate.

So, here's my question. Is it just the barrel that makes the 5R a more accurate rifle, or do you think more effort/time is put into machining the 5R action? Do you think the guys at Remington take more pride in the 5Rs, and therefore put a little more time into building them? For 'smiths who've built on both actions, have you found the 5R receiver to be more square? Or, is it just another stainless action with no distinguishing features other than the barrel? Now, I know the stock does make a difference, especially when comparing the HS with the Hogue or plastic fantastic found on the ADL Varmints. But, in comparing just the actions and barrels, is it the barrel making all the difference?

 

[Macmathews]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

Bump, gonna watch this 1

Kyle

 

[eddief]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

More than anything, I think it's a psychological thing in guys heads.

All the Rem700 receivers are the same, luck of the draw if one is more square than the next.

 

[Slinky001]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

I don' think that there is a whole lot of "pride" that goes into one or the other. These are not custom shop guns where they are highly detaied and personalized in any form.

You have mass produced actions and what I believe are hammer forged barrels with chamber jobs that on a regular basis allow the bolt to close on a NO GO gauge.

Add a .35 cent stock on to it or a "quality" stock that they pay $30 for and can't really see where any of it adds up to anything more than putting lipstick on a pig!

That being said,they are a good basis for building a platform because parts are plentiful and semi reasonably priced.

I had a PSS in .308 that I got from a friend that worked there which shot very well and a few other fctory guns that would hover around .75"-1.00" at a hundred before tearing the barrels off and putting something better on..


If you want to discuss barrel makining, discuss,; Hart, Krieger, Lilja, Border, Bartlein, Obermeyer, etc.....

 

[Jason280]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the Rem700 receivers are the same, luck of the draw if one is more square than the next.</div></div>

I thought that was likely the situation, but it does seem that the 5Rs are routinely more accurate than other factory Remington rifles (short of a 40-X). Maybe it is the barrel, but I don't think it is simply psychological.

 

[SigsauerP229]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

I'd have to lean towards the 5r's being more accurate although not by much. I have a 5r .308 and have had a Sendero .300WM, and I have a Police .308 getting tuned now since it was not as accurate as my 5r. What is the exact reason that I couldn't tell you as I'm no gunsmith.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

Maybe the 5R forging mandrels are newer and in better condition than the standard rifling mandrels, resulting in smoother, more consistent bores.

 

[Anti-Materiel]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

I've heard the only significant thing about 5R rifling is that it helps stabilize the projectile in crosswinds. That may be complete BS. That being said I handled a 5R a few weeks ago & the action was significantly smoother than other stock Model 700's I've handled. Might be coincidence or maybe they're made better. Who knows... for the price tag they should be better than a standard Model 700 though!

 

[Spanky8601]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

The 5R is not a custom rifle. But, it sure is better than the standard 700. Just my opinion.

 

[chaser_2332]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anti-Materiel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've heard the only significant thing about 5R rifling is that it helps stabilize the projectile in crosswinds. That may be complete BS. That being said I handled a 5R a few weeks ago & the action was significantly smoother than other stock Model 700's I've handled. Might be coincidence or maybe they're made better. Who knows... for the price tag they should be better than a standard Model 700 though! </div></div>

Please explain the logic to that?

 

[Anti-Materiel]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chaser_2332</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anti-Materiel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've heard the only significant thing about 5R rifling is that it helps stabilize the projectile in crosswinds. That may be complete BS. That being said I handled a 5R a few weeks ago & the action was significantly smoother than other stock Model 700's I've handled. Might be coincidence or maybe they're made better. Who knows... for the price tag they should be better than a standard Model 700 though! </div></div>

Please explain the logic to that? </div></div>

What do you mean? What part didn't you get?

 

[chaser_2332]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

I just want to know how the # of riflings in a barrel make a difference in the wind. Are you saying 2 barrels with the same twist but different number of groves shooting the same load will have different wind calls?? Doubt it not to any significant margin. By your way of thinking we all messed up by not shooting a lija 3 grove barrel it should hold a straight line through a tornado.

 

[Landis45]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

Score:
Chaser +1
Anti-Materiel -1

Anti, you now have the mic....... Annnnd go!!!

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

The 5R barrel is a good barrel and shoots well for many reasons. The rifles that are out there on the civillian market are made as 'special runs' for a distributor specifically. They are a 700 action, which is a 700 action is a 700 action. The rifles are production, that's it. No special tuning, or anything else. If you got a particularly smooth one as far as action is concerned, it was your lucky day.
The accuracy comes from the 5R barrel, they consistently shoot better (ON AVERAGE) than an even number- 4 or 6, and it makes sense from the standpoint that a bullet isn't stressed at any point during stabilization, because it isn't smammiched between two opposing lands.
I have an SPS that I have SO far done nothing to other than change stocks and trigger job it. OH- and clean and maintain the barrel properly and it shoots as good as my Dad's 5R with MY handloads. The 5R does a much better job on factory ammo, and so far there hasn't been anything stuffed into it that DOES NOT shoot well. The SPS still shoots ok with factory ammo, but not comparativley to the 5r.
Point being- it's all in the barrel, and specifically the fact it's 5R as opposed to 6 groove.
NOT to say there aren't bad 5R barrels that get made.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the 5R forging mandrels are newer and in better condition than the standard rifling mandrels, resulting in smoother, more consistent bores. </div></div>

This seems possible. Several barrel manufacturers (Krieger, for example) say there's no inherent benefit to 5R, but they offer it because people want it.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

Perhaps because the 1:11.25 is more optimum for the bullet you're using.

Barrel makers say the 5R has ZERO advantage.

Another thing to consider, from what I've read, stainless receivers warp less during manufacturing/heat treating and are thus "more true".

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

I couldn't tell you why they shoot better but just like yourself I've had several of these rifles and many other R700's and none of them have shot as good as the 5R's. I'd guess its better barrel quality but thats just a guess.


*waits for the first tard to come in and claim the barrels are M24 over runs or rejects*

 

[SIGTWO]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

Remington rifles are only as good as the people who set up and maintain the machines they are made on,the same for custom barrels that being said. I own several.308 remingtons with factory 5r barrels and several with standard production barrels. All of them shoot well with proper handloads and factory ammo and care. I have two with custom production barrels,Hart and Douglas both cut to the same length and specs.On any given day the Remington production barrels will shoot with the custom barrels. After many rounds down range and countless hours of looking at targets measuring group sizes. Its a personnal choice and how the shooter feels about equipment hes using.Its a proven fact if a shooter likes the weapon he or she is using they will perform better. Its Mental.....

 

[lockedandloaded]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

Here are some copy/paste posts I made about the Remington 5-R barrels in the M24 build thread-


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remington made the decision to include one of the most accurate barrel designs on the M24. It's known as the 5-R™ Pattern. 5 is the number of grooves/lands in the rifling, and R stands for "radial", or ramped, which describes the intersection between the land wall and its groove . The design was perfected by Boots Obermeyer and his family, all of them High Masters Distinguished in High-Power rifle competition. It's basis was derived from prior weapons like the AK-74, the Enfield, etc. Obermeyer refined it, and started using his personally manufactured barrels to win DCM/NRA competitions. There is plenty of info on the internet to fully describe its construction, so I wont bother going into detail. But if you get the chance to run a patch down the tube of a 5R, you will know by feel what this witchcraft is I speak of!</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The benefits of 5R rifling are many:
A major plus is it's ability to resist copper fouling for a longer time, compared to traditional rifling. Having an odd number of lands (5) means that at any location within the bore diameter, there will not be an adjacent land on the opposite side. This helps prevent the bullet jacket from 'gilding' its copper deposits.

The radial design of the land edges is also much more relaxed, somewhere in the area of 110 degrees, compared to standard rifling of 90 degrees. This tends to prevent the jacket of the bullet from getting cut (especially longer length bullets like VLD's), reducing jacket failure.

It also increases the service life of the barrel due to lower internal stress/wear.

And cleaning the bore is much easier as a result of the lower copper fouling.

There is also a small increase in bullet velocity (approx 100fps) due to the reduced contact patch between the lands.

There is (supposedly) no sacrifice in performance over the shorter distances when compared to standard button- or cut-rifling.</div></div>

 

[Landis45]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

I think the barrels are just M24 over runs or rejects.....

 

[Anti-Materiel]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chaser_2332</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want to know how the # of riflings in a barrel make a difference in the wind. Are you saying 2 barrels with the same twist but different number of groves shooting the same load will have different wind calls?? Doubt it not to any significant margin. By your way of thinking we all messed up by not shooting a lija 3 grove barrel it should hold a straight line through a tornado. </div></div>

By my way of thinking? I said I heard that & I didn't know if it was true or complete BS. Didn't you read the whole post?

 

[Anti-Materiel]

Re: Remington 5Rs vs standard 700s

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KyDmax</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Score:
Chaser +1
Anti-Materiel -1

Anti, you now have the mic....... Annnnd go!!! </div></div>

How is that Chaser +1? I clearly stated in my original post:

"I'VE HEARD the only significant thing about 5R rifling is that it helps stabilize the projectile in crosswinds. THAT MAY BE COMPLETE BS."

How is that my logic? I heard it from someone... I never said that I believed it or that any of you should believe it. I think Chaser jumped the gun on that one. When did this become a contest anyway? lol! +1 -1 Who cares!