Did anyone else catch this show on cnbc by any chance? Was very interesting on how Remington as a company has hidden all the mis fires and accidental discharges from the 700 action and any that have the older style safety. I couldnt believe the guy who designed the safety even stated he designed a fix for it prior to release but to save money they opted out of it. Think i will sell my older remingtons now and never purchase another plainly because they will not stand by there products when it came to that issue. How does everyone else feel about it?
- Thread starter nmntz
- Start date
Re: Remington under fire?????
No one saw it, sounds interesting...
let me know when you want to sell all your Remingtons I will give you $250 for them.
No one saw it, sounds interesting...
let me know when you want to sell all your Remingtons I will give you $250 for them.
Re: Remington under fire?????
lol thanks LL. wasnt sure if that was sarcasm about not seeing the show but either way it was very interesting but kinda sad about the kid that was killed.
lol thanks LL. wasnt sure if that was sarcasm about not seeing the show but either way it was very interesting but kinda sad about the kid that was killed.
Re: Remington under fire?????
A kid was killed -- sounds like a couple of firearm safety rules were broken... I personally can't think of a reason to point my gun at a kid, especially considering it goes against the most basic of safety rules regarding their use.
A kid was killed -- sounds like a couple of firearm safety rules were broken... I personally can't think of a reason to point my gun at a kid, especially considering it goes against the most basic of safety rules regarding their use.
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one saw it, sounds interesting...
let me know when you want to sell all your Remingtons I will give you $250 for them. </div></div>
LOL.....I was going to offer $100 for that pos that shoots on it's own
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one saw it, sounds interesting...
let me know when you want to sell all your Remingtons I will give you $250 for them. </div></div>
LOL.....I was going to offer $100 for that pos that shoots on it's own
Re: Remington under fire?????
it actually fired when the bolt was trouched and went through a horse trailer and struck there child in the side, then during the ciourt case the represenative for remington showed the judge how tooperate the rifle and it fired 2 times in court while the safety was being operated needless to say there were no ammo in the rifle however remington "settled" with an un disclosed amount. there are hundreds of cases of this that have been brought to remington and now they are re considering the use of remingtons in the sniper training courses in n.c. they came up with a term calleing "remington condition" video of them barely touching the safety and the gun firing on the line. The trigger was not being manipulated at all in these videos. nor was it in the court case. I myself was shocked with it.
it actually fired when the bolt was trouched and went through a horse trailer and struck there child in the side, then during the ciourt case the represenative for remington showed the judge how tooperate the rifle and it fired 2 times in court while the safety was being operated needless to say there were no ammo in the rifle however remington "settled" with an un disclosed amount. there are hundreds of cases of this that have been brought to remington and now they are re considering the use of remingtons in the sniper training courses in n.c. they came up with a term calleing "remington condition" video of them barely touching the safety and the gun firing on the line. The trigger was not being manipulated at all in these videos. nor was it in the court case. I myself was shocked with it.
Re: Remington under fire?????
o thanks Dave, i searched for it but discovered nothing so thats why i posted.
o thanks Dave, i searched for it but discovered nothing so thats why i posted.
Re: Remington under fire?????
click his link
click his link
Re: Remington under fire?????
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Re: Remington under fire?????
Not rehash, but a poorly maintained as well as a wrongly adjusted trigger will do that... none of which are the fault of Remington.
I actually have an After Market Trigger I need to fix because it does the same thing and it's not a Remington clone. It's just out of adjustment.
Drops the hammer on manipulation.
It's easy to blame Remington when they have deep pockets, but let's review
1. All guns are always loaded and will be treated as such
2. Never point the muzzle of any firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy and take full responsibility for
3. Be absolutely sure of your target and backstop
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target
I think she broke a couple ...
Not rehash, but a poorly maintained as well as a wrongly adjusted trigger will do that... none of which are the fault of Remington.
I actually have an After Market Trigger I need to fix because it does the same thing and it's not a Remington clone. It's just out of adjustment.
Drops the hammer on manipulation.
It's easy to blame Remington when they have deep pockets, but let's review
1. All guns are always loaded and will be treated as such
2. Never point the muzzle of any firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy and take full responsibility for
3. Be absolutely sure of your target and backstop
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target
I think she broke a couple ...
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. Be absolutely sure of your target and backstop
</div></div>
Clearly, horse trailers are good backstops. I'd sue Remington as well. Besides, how else can we keep the Nanny State in power. Next you'll be expecting me to not burn myself with hot coffee at McDonalds...sheesh!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. Be absolutely sure of your target and backstop
</div></div>
Clearly, horse trailers are good backstops. I'd sue Remington as well. Besides, how else can we keep the Nanny State in power. Next you'll be expecting me to not burn myself with hot coffee at McDonalds...sheesh!
Re: Remington under fire?????
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Re: Remington under fire?????
I think it's a crock of shit, I wouldn't believe anything CNBC has to say about any gun company. Only 75 law suits when there are over 5 million 700's out there, not to mention the 722 and 721 that use the same trigger. I would bet a lot of those law suits are people that did something stupid and for legal or insurance reasons made up a story to divert blame away from themselves.
I don't put any stock in a Remington employee being told not to acknowledge a potential product defect either, all major companies do the same thing. Try calling Toyota and asking them about their recent troubles or call Honda and ask them about their recently claimed airbag system failures. They will tell you the same thing, just because they won't or can't talk about a subject doesn't mean it's real or fabricated, it just means someone decided not to talk about it. I work for a huge company that is frequently the subject of false claims on the internet, we chose not to pursue it because it gives back door credibility to the accuser.
I own a lot of older Remington rifles and have never had an AD. I have also fixed a lot of Remingtons that Bubba tried to do a trigger job and screwed up the sear engagement making the rifle unsafe. That's one of the reasons Remington rifles have thread lock on the trigger screws. If you mess with the trigger and send it back to Remington for any reason they replace the trigger and charge you for a new one. Remington will also not sell any trigger parts to a non-FFL holder.
I think it's a crock of shit, I wouldn't believe anything CNBC has to say about any gun company. Only 75 law suits when there are over 5 million 700's out there, not to mention the 722 and 721 that use the same trigger. I would bet a lot of those law suits are people that did something stupid and for legal or insurance reasons made up a story to divert blame away from themselves.
I don't put any stock in a Remington employee being told not to acknowledge a potential product defect either, all major companies do the same thing. Try calling Toyota and asking them about their recent troubles or call Honda and ask them about their recently claimed airbag system failures. They will tell you the same thing, just because they won't or can't talk about a subject doesn't mean it's real or fabricated, it just means someone decided not to talk about it. I work for a huge company that is frequently the subject of false claims on the internet, we chose not to pursue it because it gives back door credibility to the accuser.
I own a lot of older Remington rifles and have never had an AD. I have also fixed a lot of Remingtons that Bubba tried to do a trigger job and screwed up the sear engagement making the rifle unsafe. That's one of the reasons Remington rifles have thread lock on the trigger screws. If you mess with the trigger and send it back to Remington for any reason they replace the trigger and charge you for a new one. Remington will also not sell any trigger parts to a non-FFL holder.
Re: Remington under fire?????
I saw the show and it was an eye opener for me.
The factory rep for Remington stated on video during a deposition that the 700 has a known issue where the safety can cause the gun to fire. Safe handeling is one issue, but its hard to be safe when even the factory states the gun can go off by itself.
I saw the show and it was an eye opener for me.
The factory rep for Remington stated on video during a deposition that the 700 has a known issue where the safety can cause the gun to fire. Safe handeling is one issue, but its hard to be safe when even the factory states the gun can go off by itself.
Re: Remington under fire?????
As I said, I will offer up cash to anyone looking to sell their 700...
As I said, I will offer up cash to anyone looking to sell their 700...
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they have done the math and concluded that a few lawsuit settlements is cheaper than a $300 million recall. </div></div>
It's not cheaper to settle gross negligence law suits because punitive damages come into play, punitive damages are usually based on the companies net worth.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think they have done the math and concluded that a few lawsuit settlements is cheaper than a $300 million recall. </div></div>
It's not cheaper to settle gross negligence law suits because punitive damages come into play, punitive damages are usually based on the companies net worth.
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nmntz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it actually fired when the bolt was trouched and went through a horse trailer and struck there child in the side,<span style="color: #990000"> then during the ciourt case the represenative for remington showed the judge how tooperate the rifle and it fired 2 times in court while the safety was being operated needless to say there were no ammo in the rifle however remington "settled" with an un disclosed amount</span>. there are hundreds of cases of this that have been brought to remington and now they are re considering the use of remingtons in the sniper training courses in n.c. they came up with a term calleing "remington condition" video of them barely touching the safety and the gun firing on the line. The trigger was not being manipulated at all in these videos. nor was it in the court case. I myself was shocked with it. </div></div>
According to CNBC...
There are so many deficiencies, questions un-asked and suspicious or compromised "experts" in the "Remington under fire" presentation (re-aired last night) that make the whole story deeply flawed.
If this were a court proceeding, the lack of questions regarding tampering by owners, lack of maintenance, the indifference to the likelihood of a loaded round in the chamber while covering any and every point of the compass with their muzzles, and the unwillingness to accept any responsibility for a terrible occurrence that came from their fire arm, while in their hands, would at least have gotten some scrutiny. Not on NBC though.
Outrageously, what passes for journalism today seems to be comprised of a majority of people who drink the same flavor-ade and who's main qualification is that they vote for and support leftists.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nmntz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it actually fired when the bolt was trouched and went through a horse trailer and struck there child in the side,<span style="color: #990000"> then during the ciourt case the represenative for remington showed the judge how tooperate the rifle and it fired 2 times in court while the safety was being operated needless to say there were no ammo in the rifle however remington "settled" with an un disclosed amount</span>. there are hundreds of cases of this that have been brought to remington and now they are re considering the use of remingtons in the sniper training courses in n.c. they came up with a term calleing "remington condition" video of them barely touching the safety and the gun firing on the line. The trigger was not being manipulated at all in these videos. nor was it in the court case. I myself was shocked with it. </div></div>
According to CNBC...
There are so many deficiencies, questions un-asked and suspicious or compromised "experts" in the "Remington under fire" presentation (re-aired last night) that make the whole story deeply flawed.
If this were a court proceeding, the lack of questions regarding tampering by owners, lack of maintenance, the indifference to the likelihood of a loaded round in the chamber while covering any and every point of the compass with their muzzles, and the unwillingness to accept any responsibility for a terrible occurrence that came from their fire arm, while in their hands, would at least have gotten some scrutiny. Not on NBC though.
Outrageously, what passes for journalism today seems to be comprised of a majority of people who drink the same flavor-ade and who's main qualification is that they vote for and support leftists.
Re: Remington under fire?????
I was just watching the cnbc review, sucks that's lives have been lost/injured. But I'm going to call this BS! I'm am guilty of a few things like making the trigger so light where I closed the bolt and the round went off. Also when you see that a rifle/pistol in engaged but just pull the trigger to release it(in a safe direction) which I believe that's what happened to the mother that shoot her son. Why don't the just admit they're the one responsible for the accident instead of just pointing fingers
I was just watching the cnbc review, sucks that's lives have been lost/injured. But I'm going to call this BS! I'm am guilty of a few things like making the trigger so light where I closed the bolt and the round went off. Also when you see that a rifle/pistol in engaged but just pull the trigger to release it(in a safe direction) which I believe that's what happened to the mother that shoot her son. Why don't the just admit they're the one responsible for the accident instead of just pointing fingers
Re: Remington under fire?????
In a world where 2/3rds of the billboards are for scumbag injury attorneys, it is little wonder that taking responsibility for one's actions are going the way of the dodo.
On the one hand people want to cash in if there is any chance a defendant (Or more correctly, his insurance company) will cave in and settle, even when the defendant is completely blameless.
On the other, defendants must be ever vigilant to keep their traps shut for fear of making their messes even more costly.
I feel completely unpersuaded by the Remington story as presented by CNBC. It is worthless in my opinion and devoid of the credibility one must bring to have standing when expecting to influence people.
And regarding the billboards, the oversupply of lawyers is fueling the double digit growth in the lawsuit industry.
In a world where 2/3rds of the billboards are for scumbag injury attorneys, it is little wonder that taking responsibility for one's actions are going the way of the dodo.
On the one hand people want to cash in if there is any chance a defendant (Or more correctly, his insurance company) will cave in and settle, even when the defendant is completely blameless.
On the other, defendants must be ever vigilant to keep their traps shut for fear of making their messes even more costly.
I feel completely unpersuaded by the Remington story as presented by CNBC. It is worthless in my opinion and devoid of the credibility one must bring to have standing when expecting to influence people.
And regarding the billboards, the oversupply of lawyers is fueling the double digit growth in the lawsuit industry.
Re: Remington under fire?????
Again....
The factory rep for Remington stated on video during a deposition that the 700 has a known issue where the safety can cause the gun to fire.
Forget everything CNBC said, how do you explain what Remington said under oath?
Again....
The factory rep for Remington stated on video during a deposition that the 700 has a known issue where the safety can cause the gun to fire.
Forget everything CNBC said, how do you explain what Remington said under oath?
Re: Remington under fire?????
was it in context with the entire response... like if you mis adjust it, or if it is particularly unkept ?
There are ways to manipulate anything said simply by pulling it out of context
was it in context with the entire response... like if you mis adjust it, or if it is particularly unkept ?
There are ways to manipulate anything said simply by pulling it out of context
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again....
The factory rep for Remington stated on video during a deposition that the 700 has a known issue where the safety can cause the gun to fire.
Forget everything CNBC said, how do you explain what Remington said under oath?
</div></div>
I didn't see the video of the Remington rep saying this under oath. I saw where a mealy mouthed NBC pussy, who himself couldn't keep from placing his finger on the trigger, said a Remington rep admitted this under oath.
See the difference?
Did I miss this damning admission when I went to take a leak?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again....
The factory rep for Remington stated on video during a deposition that the 700 has a known issue where the safety can cause the gun to fire.
Forget everything CNBC said, how do you explain what Remington said under oath?
</div></div>
I didn't see the video of the Remington rep saying this under oath. I saw where a mealy mouthed NBC pussy, who himself couldn't keep from placing his finger on the trigger, said a Remington rep admitted this under oath.
See the difference?
Did I miss this damning admission when I went to take a leak?
Re: Remington under fire?????
actually quee i think it was a lady who stated it under oath, not completely sure ill watch it again today
actually quee i think it was a lady who stated it under oath, not completely sure ill watch it again today
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not rehash, but a poorly maintained as well as a wrongly adjusted trigger will do that... none of which are the fault of Remington.
I actually have an After Market Trigger I need to fix because it does the same thing and it's not a Remington clone. It's just out of adjustment.
Drops the hammer on manipulation.
It's easy to blame Remington when they have deep pockets, but let's review
1. All guns are always loaded and will be treated as such
2. Never point the muzzle of any firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy and take full responsibility for
3. Be absolutely sure of your target and backstop
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target
I think she broke a couple ... </div></div>
Quoted for truth. I personally know of more than one occasion where this very thing has happened. People that do not respect firearms usually do not live as long as they could have.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not rehash, but a poorly maintained as well as a wrongly adjusted trigger will do that... none of which are the fault of Remington.
I actually have an After Market Trigger I need to fix because it does the same thing and it's not a Remington clone. It's just out of adjustment.
Drops the hammer on manipulation.
It's easy to blame Remington when they have deep pockets, but let's review
1. All guns are always loaded and will be treated as such
2. Never point the muzzle of any firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy and take full responsibility for
3. Be absolutely sure of your target and backstop
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target
I think she broke a couple ... </div></div>
Quoted for truth. I personally know of more than one occasion where this very thing has happened. People that do not respect firearms usually do not live as long as they could have.
Re: Remington under fire?????
and didnt the guy who designed the trigger say that there was a defect with it, and they shoul;dnt name it "safety"
and didnt the guy who designed the trigger say that there was a defect with it, and they shoul;dnt name it "safety"
Re: Remington under fire?????
Yup... Looks like you took a piss at the wrong time.
Yup... Looks like you took a piss at the wrong time.
Re: Remington under fire?????
It was a metaphorical leak!
More likely I turned the channel out of disgust or took the dogs out for some "weight loss"!
Seriously, is there actual video of the testimony of the Remington rep. admitting there is a problem with the trigger?
It was a metaphorical leak!
More likely I turned the channel out of disgust or took the dogs out for some "weight loss"!
Seriously, is there actual video of the testimony of the Remington rep. admitting there is a problem with the trigger?
Re: Remington under fire?????
Yes.
It went something like this..
Lawyer to Remington
Is it true that under certain conditions the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled.
Remington
Yes
Is it true that this condition has been known to Remington for several years
Remington
Yes
I dont remember the exact wording, but it clear enouugh and put the nail in the coffin for me...
Over 99 percent of Remington owners dont know how to zero their scopes properly, let alone adjust the trigger so I dont believe this is from modifying the gun. The stack of letters to Remington from gun owners was rather significant, and even though I believe its an isolated problem, one gun that fires when taking the safety off is not acceptable in my book, and Remington should fix it.
Yes.
It went something like this..
Lawyer to Remington
Is it true that under certain conditions the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled.
Remington
Yes
Is it true that this condition has been known to Remington for several years
Remington
Yes
I dont remember the exact wording, but it clear enouugh and put the nail in the coffin for me...
Over 99 percent of Remington owners dont know how to zero their scopes properly, let alone adjust the trigger so I dont believe this is from modifying the gun. The stack of letters to Remington from gun owners was rather significant, and even though I believe its an isolated problem, one gun that fires when taking the safety off is not acceptable in my book, and Remington should fix it.
Re: Remington under fire?????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> one gun that fires when taking the safety off is not acceptable in my book, and Remington should fix it.
</div></div>
Would this 'statement' go before or after the famous statement <span style="font-weight: bold">"if it will save one childs life it will be worth it </span> ?????
Have absolutely nothing against children except when money grubbing thieves with an agenda use the term 'child or children' to further their cause!!!
Money and monetary gain should <span style="font-weight: bold">ALWAYS </span> be the end result to fix Stupid, Greed, Carelessness, Incompetency etc.
Remember "its for the children"!!!!
The comedian Ron White(sp?) says "you can't fix stupid" but he hasn't met a trial attorney who likes money and has low morales either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> one gun that fires when taking the safety off is not acceptable in my book, and Remington should fix it.
</div></div>
Would this 'statement' go before or after the famous statement <span style="font-weight: bold">"if it will save one childs life it will be worth it </span> ?????
Have absolutely nothing against children except when money grubbing thieves with an agenda use the term 'child or children' to further their cause!!!
Money and monetary gain should <span style="font-weight: bold">ALWAYS </span> be the end result to fix Stupid, Greed, Carelessness, Incompetency etc.
Remember "its for the children"!!!!
The comedian Ron White(sp?) says "you can't fix stupid" but he hasn't met a trial attorney who likes money and has low morales either.
Re: Remington under fire?????
Under "Certain Conditions" is a catch phrase...
If the owner of the rifle improperly adjusts the trigger it will fire -- that is under certain conditions
If the rifle was not properly maintained by the owner and allows excessive build up to occur -- is under certain conditions.
So while the rep from Remington is admitting it "can" happen "under certain" conditions, that is not to say, when you buy a Remington and open the box it will happen ?
Allowing the trigger to be adjusted by the end user is knowing it can happen...
Under "Certain Conditions" is a catch phrase...
If the owner of the rifle improperly adjusts the trigger it will fire -- that is under certain conditions
If the rifle was not properly maintained by the owner and allows excessive build up to occur -- is under certain conditions.
So while the rep from Remington is admitting it "can" happen "under certain" conditions, that is not to say, when you buy a Remington and open the box it will happen ?
Allowing the trigger to be adjusted by the end user is knowing it can happen...
Re: Remington under fire?????
This whole thing is ridiculous. Does this happen with "factory" stock triggers? Not that I have heard yet. The factory trigger with the heavier pull is remingtons product. The poorly over adjusted trigger that allows misfires is the OWNERS product. I don't see fault here with anyone but the rifle owner.
This whole thing is ridiculous. Does this happen with "factory" stock triggers? Not that I have heard yet. The factory trigger with the heavier pull is remingtons product. The poorly over adjusted trigger that allows misfires is the OWNERS product. I don't see fault here with anyone but the rifle owner.
Re: Remington under fire?????
actually NLY205 it was a factory trigger assembly that was un-altered, i had to watch the show again today but none the less also, any firearm i own loaded or unloaded i always treat as loaded weapon and would never point in an unsafe direction.
actually NLY205 it was a factory trigger assembly that was un-altered, i had to watch the show again today but none the less also, any firearm i own loaded or unloaded i always treat as loaded weapon and would never point in an unsafe direction.
Re: Remington under fire?????
The need to fix a mechanical problem and people getting shot are two separate issues, IMHO. I have had AD's with different weapons throughout the years and in each case, no one was injured because I was following the rules of safe handling. To look at this issue through the lens of an automotive recall example is totally off base. If your brakes fail or throttle sticks while driving, it is hard to overcome the issue by driving "safer." A firearm, on the other hand, is ALWAYS considered loaded and dangerous. An AD, while surprising, does not need to cause physical harm.
The need to fix a mechanical problem and people getting shot are two separate issues, IMHO. I have had AD's with different weapons throughout the years and in each case, no one was injured because I was following the rules of safe handling. To look at this issue through the lens of an automotive recall example is totally off base. If your brakes fail or throttle sticks while driving, it is hard to overcome the issue by driving "safer." A firearm, on the other hand, is ALWAYS considered loaded and dangerous. An AD, while surprising, does not need to cause physical harm.
Re: Remington under fire?????
+1000
+1000
Re: Remington under fire?????
I haven't seen the show, but I have heard plenty enough controversy. I decided to invest a bit of time toward my own version of an unbiased, informed opinion.
CNBC put together all their highlights here;
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936/
Remington put their response/defense here;
http://m.remington700.tv/#
After you decide to get rid of your inherently unsafe Remingtons, I'll pay $100.00 each, for the first twenty offered.
I haven't seen the show, but I have heard plenty enough controversy. I decided to invest a bit of time toward my own version of an unbiased, informed opinion.
CNBC put together all their highlights here;
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936/
Remington put their response/defense here;
http://m.remington700.tv/#
After you decide to get rid of your inherently unsafe Remingtons, I'll pay $100.00 each, for the first twenty offered.
