I removed my barreled action from the bedded HS Precision stock it was in, and then re-nstalled it. Prior to doing this I marked the bottom metal and bolts, thinking when I put it back I could align the marks and all would be the same. I'm not a very good shot, but prior to doing this I was getting consistent 1/2 to 3/4moa 5shot groups with FGMM. After, my point of impact was about 4" low at 100yds, and it has stayed there since. My groups have also opened up. I haven't had a sub moa group since. Any suggestions for what could have caused this or what I should try to do to fix it? Thanks a lot.
Gunsmithing Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
- Thread starter chawk
- Start date
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
You've probably got a problem with the bedding, namely the recoil lug area. There are a lot of guys who do not relieve the recoil lug either before or after bedding the barreled action.
The action has probably been torqued due to the recoil lug shaving some of the bedding material into the lug cavity.
When I bed and action, the front sides and bottom of the lug are taped to eliminate this after bedding problem.
Take a sharp chisel or scraper and relieve those portions of the lug bedding; not the back side.
You've probably got a problem with the bedding, namely the recoil lug area. There are a lot of guys who do not relieve the recoil lug either before or after bedding the barreled action.
The action has probably been torqued due to the recoil lug shaving some of the bedding material into the lug cavity.
When I bed and action, the front sides and bottom of the lug are taped to eliminate this after bedding problem.
Take a sharp chisel or scraper and relieve those portions of the lug bedding; not the back side.
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
I will give that a try. The action was VERY tight when trying to get it out (and back in), because the bedding was so snug around the recoil lug on all sides. What you're saying makes sense i think.
I will give that a try. The action was VERY tight when trying to get it out (and back in), because the bedding was so snug around the recoil lug on all sides. What you're saying makes sense i think.
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
gundoktr nailed it, the Recoil lug should be loose everywhere except the backside. My guess is that with it tight on the bottom, your recoil lug is not fully seating into the bottom of its pocket. That would keep the bottom of the front of your action from full bedding contact.
-matt
gundoktr nailed it, the Recoil lug should be loose everywhere except the backside. My guess is that with it tight on the bottom, your recoil lug is not fully seating into the bottom of its pocket. That would keep the bottom of the front of your action from full bedding contact.
-matt
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
While I'm asking questions, have any of you ever seen an action that was out of square where it mates to the trigger?
That was my initial reason for pulling the barreled action. I thought the trigger assembly itself was bent or crooked, so I pulled the barreled action and swapped in a known “straight” trigger from a different M700 I have. It fit exactly the same way, so it must be the action that is messed up.
Background info is that it's been like that since day one. As soon as I brought the gun home (probably 10years ago now) I had noticed it. I tried returning it to the store where I had purchased it, but they wouldn't take it back or exchange it. I sent it to Remington figuring they would fix it, but instead I received the same gun back, months later, in the same condition. At that point I was so disgusted I just took a file to the bottom metal where it contacted the trigger assembly and relieved it enough to clear. Fast forward to a few months back… I had it trued and re-barreled. Then, just a few weeks ago I was considering getting a new stock and some nice bottom metal. In order to make sure I wouldn't have to hack on the new bottom metal I investigated what I had always assumed was a trigger issue and realized it was the action that’s screwed up.
Sorry for the long, poorly written summary. Hopefully it gets the important info out there. Anyone seen something like this before? I assume there is no cost-effective way to fix it?
While I'm asking questions, have any of you ever seen an action that was out of square where it mates to the trigger?
That was my initial reason for pulling the barreled action. I thought the trigger assembly itself was bent or crooked, so I pulled the barreled action and swapped in a known “straight” trigger from a different M700 I have. It fit exactly the same way, so it must be the action that is messed up.
Background info is that it's been like that since day one. As soon as I brought the gun home (probably 10years ago now) I had noticed it. I tried returning it to the store where I had purchased it, but they wouldn't take it back or exchange it. I sent it to Remington figuring they would fix it, but instead I received the same gun back, months later, in the same condition. At that point I was so disgusted I just took a file to the bottom metal where it contacted the trigger assembly and relieved it enough to clear. Fast forward to a few months back… I had it trued and re-barreled. Then, just a few weeks ago I was considering getting a new stock and some nice bottom metal. In order to make sure I wouldn't have to hack on the new bottom metal I investigated what I had always assumed was a trigger issue and realized it was the action that’s screwed up.
Sorry for the long, poorly written summary. Hopefully it gets the important info out there. Anyone seen something like this before? I assume there is no cost-effective way to fix it?
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
I would have to disagree, every rifle I've bedded get the recoil lug fully contacted on all sides and I've had nothing but lights out performance from those rifle's. I want a complete snug stress free fit from all directions.
I would have to disagree, every rifle I've bedded get the recoil lug fully contacted on all sides and I've had nothing but lights out performance from those rifle's. I want a complete snug stress free fit from all directions.
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry for the long, poorly written summary. Hopefully it gets the important info out there. Anyone seen something like this before? I assume there is no cost-effective way to fix it?
</div></div>
Pretty simple actually, the recoil lug is crooked. Have your smith loosen the barrel slight and move the recoil lug a few degrees. It doesn't take much to get the trigger crooked, since you've only got maybe 1/8" or so of play almost 2 inches from the action centerline. That's only about 3.5 degrees.
-matt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry for the long, poorly written summary. Hopefully it gets the important info out there. Anyone seen something like this before? I assume there is no cost-effective way to fix it?
</div></div>
Pretty simple actually, the recoil lug is crooked. Have your smith loosen the barrel slight and move the recoil lug a few degrees. It doesn't take much to get the trigger crooked, since you've only got maybe 1/8" or so of play almost 2 inches from the action centerline. That's only about 3.5 degrees.
-matt
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
That sounds simple but i wonder why it was like that when it came from Remington, and then the exact same way after it was trued, re-barreled and bedded by the gunsmith.
Also, it looks like if the action was rotated enough to make the trigger straight, the bolt wouldn't close all the way before hitting the stock.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I really appreciate it.
Edit to add that the Action screws seem straight also, it is only the trigger that is crooked.
That sounds simple but i wonder why it was like that when it came from Remington, and then the exact same way after it was trued, re-barreled and bedded by the gunsmith.
Also, it looks like if the action was rotated enough to make the trigger straight, the bolt wouldn't close all the way before hitting the stock.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I really appreciate it.
Edit to add that the Action screws seem straight also, it is only the trigger that is crooked.
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
Also check and make damn sure the mag box is set correctly into the receiver AND the floorplate if this is a 700 which I assume it is. I have purchased numerous used rifles over the yrs that the mag box was either wedged into the reciever and normally rear not fully seated. The others have had the floorplate set in place and then tightened down. The mag box spreads in the rear and either sides or rear can keep it from entering the recess cast into the bottom metal. This then pushes up on receiver when screws are tightened and it isn't pulled into your bedding properly.
Also I think for every smith or tinkerer that fully beds a lug there are probably 20 that don't!! I have never seen in writing that the lug should be bedded completely for obvious reasons. To each his own however. If it works for ya it is pretty hard to argue against it. Just my .01 (inflation) worth
Also what monteboy said about the lug. A few thousandths cant will make the trigger look off and contact side of bottom metal, especially if it has been tightly bedded.
Respectfully,
Dennis
Also check and make damn sure the mag box is set correctly into the receiver AND the floorplate if this is a 700 which I assume it is. I have purchased numerous used rifles over the yrs that the mag box was either wedged into the reciever and normally rear not fully seated. The others have had the floorplate set in place and then tightened down. The mag box spreads in the rear and either sides or rear can keep it from entering the recess cast into the bottom metal. This then pushes up on receiver when screws are tightened and it isn't pulled into your bedding properly.
Also I think for every smith or tinkerer that fully beds a lug there are probably 20 that don't!! I have never seen in writing that the lug should be bedded completely for obvious reasons. To each his own however. If it works for ya it is pretty hard to argue against it. Just my .01 (inflation) worth
Also what monteboy said about the lug. A few thousandths cant will make the trigger look off and contact side of bottom metal, especially if it has been tightly bedded.
Respectfully,
Dennis
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
chawk:
It's very easy to get the lug crooked when tightening action to the barrel, because the lug follows the barrel and can get canted while torquing. It wouldn't surprise me that the same thing happened at Remington and the independent smith, as it's a common problem if they don't catch it.
I've had a gun where the bolts would still go in just fine, but the handle hit and the safety was hitting the trigger guard. The action screw holes are sloppy enough that you can usually get the screws theaded in whether or not the action is canted.
-matt
chawk:
It's very easy to get the lug crooked when tightening action to the barrel, because the lug follows the barrel and can get canted while torquing. It wouldn't surprise me that the same thing happened at Remington and the independent smith, as it's a common problem if they don't catch it.
I've had a gun where the bolts would still go in just fine, but the handle hit and the safety was hitting the trigger guard. The action screw holes are sloppy enough that you can usually get the screws theaded in whether or not the action is canted.
-matt
Re: Remove/Re-install barreled action= major POI shift
Thanks for the advice everyone. Guess i need to send it back to the smith.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Guess i need to send it back to the smith.
