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Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
thats crazy did search all over cnn web sight
thats crazy did search all over cnn web sight
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
We had a bad crash here at the Martinsburg, WV ("Thunder Over the Blue Ridge") airshow yesterday too. A T-28 crash killed the pilot, but fortunately, no spectators were injured as the plane crashed away from the crowds. Horrible tragedies for both crashes...my thoughts and prayers are with the families/loved ones of all involved.
We had a bad crash here at the Martinsburg, WV ("Thunder Over the Blue Ridge") airshow yesterday too. A T-28 crash killed the pilot, but fortunately, no spectators were injured as the plane crashed away from the crowds. Horrible tragedies for both crashes...my thoughts and prayers are with the families/loved ones of all involved.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Prayers to the families of the injured. That's just a damn shame.
Prayers to the families of the injured. That's just a damn shame.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Was watching Fox News when it happened and they broke in with "breaking news" showing the cell phone video everyone has seen by now. At that point no one knew anything other than it was a mass casualty situation. Hung around and watched the airfield's press conference about two hours later. They said it took only 62 minutes to clear the scene. Considering the level of trauma and the number of dead/wounded, a big kudos to the first responders who did a first rate job handling it. Apparently there was also a military element that helped transport with helos.
Was watching Fox News when it happened and they broke in with "breaking news" showing the cell phone video everyone has seen by now. At that point no one knew anything other than it was a mass casualty situation. Hung around and watched the airfield's press conference about two hours later. They said it took only 62 minutes to clear the scene. Considering the level of trauma and the number of dead/wounded, a big kudos to the first responders who did a first rate job handling it. Apparently there was also a military element that helped transport with helos.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Kudos to the first responders and race organizers. According to one report, they had conducted a "functional exercise" that morning, simulating a catastrophic event as this. It obviously paid off due to the rapid response.
Kevin
Kudos to the first responders and race organizers. According to one report, they had conducted a "functional exercise" that morning, simulating a catastrophic event as this. It obviously paid off due to the rapid response.
Kevin
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
The announcer sure was cool under fire!
The announcer sure was cool under fire!
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Yeah, I know at the shows around here they practice a lot for this kind of stuff, I guess the pilot was something like 74 years old, in some of the pictures on Yahoo News they show the plane when it was nose down and you cant even see the pilot, IDK but he may have blacked out or had a heart attack. Seems like if he was concuss he would have been fighting it until the last minute you know.
Yeah, I know at the shows around here they practice a lot for this kind of stuff, I guess the pilot was something like 74 years old, in some of the pictures on Yahoo News they show the plane when it was nose down and you cant even see the pilot, IDK but he may have blacked out or had a heart attack. Seems like if he was concuss he would have been fighting it until the last minute you know.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
I was thinking that too, looks to be a P51-A or B model as the D model went to a bubble with low back.
I'm sad for his family, but he died doing what he loved, and I'm sad for all the spectators that lost their lives.
But I'm also sad at the loss of a beautiful aircraft like that.
There was a second airshow crash as well, a T-28 slammed inot a runway.
I was thinking that too, looks to be a P51-A or B model as the D model went to a bubble with low back.
I'm sad for his family, but he died doing what he loved, and I'm sad for all the spectators that lost their lives.
But I'm also sad at the loss of a beautiful aircraft like that.
There was a second airshow crash as well, a T-28 slammed inot a runway.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Its actually a P-51D with a custom cockpit. It does look tricky though. The P-51 A,B,C all had caged cockpits.
Really is a sad story though. From what I haven seen the Jim was a great guy and loved to fly. May he rest in peace.
Aron-
Its actually a P-51D with a custom cockpit. It does look tricky though. The P-51 A,B,C all had caged cockpits.
Really is a sad story though. From what I haven seen the Jim was a great guy and loved to fly. May he rest in peace.
Aron-
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
+1 to winxp, these are usually HEAVILY modified D models for these races.
Also, interesting thing about the picture - the tail wheel is down. These retract in the normal P-51s, and I would assume if you spend millions to streamline one of these and fund a race team to be competitive the tail wheel position would be important. Maybe a clue for the NTSB about something broke in the tail of the plane.
Another interesting observation from some of the news video not mentioned, a restored UH-1 of Vietnam heritage performed medivac flights for some of the wounded to the local hospital. Grand old girl continues taking care of those in harms way even in retirement. Amazing.
Prayers out for all involved
+1 to winxp, these are usually HEAVILY modified D models for these races.
Also, interesting thing about the picture - the tail wheel is down. These retract in the normal P-51s, and I would assume if you spend millions to streamline one of these and fund a race team to be competitive the tail wheel position would be important. Maybe a clue for the NTSB about something broke in the tail of the plane.
Another interesting observation from some of the news video not mentioned, a restored UH-1 of Vietnam heritage performed medivac flights for some of the wounded to the local hospital. Grand old girl continues taking care of those in harms way even in retirement. Amazing.
Prayers out for all involved
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Another interesting observation from some of the news video not mentioned, a restored UH-1 of Vietnam heritage performed medivac flights for some of the wounded to the local hospital. Grand old girl continues taking care of those in harms way even in retirement. Amazing.
Prayers out for all involved </div></div>
Huey's are my favorite, if ever I make it to a millionaire or more I will own one!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Another interesting observation from some of the news video not mentioned, a restored UH-1 of Vietnam heritage performed medivac flights for some of the wounded to the local hospital. Grand old girl continues taking care of those in harms way even in retirement. Amazing.
Prayers out for all involved </div></div>
Huey's are my favorite, if ever I make it to a millionaire or more I will own one!
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Here is another link with what seems to capture the problem of the plane
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/1...probed/#photo-1
Aron-
Here is another link with what seems to capture the problem of the plane
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/1...probed/#photo-1
Aron-
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
I wouldnt think a missing trim tab would cause that level of problem, but could be indicative of other issues. Then again at 400mph...
Looking at the picture just before impact, he's starting to angle away from the crowd. Wonder if that was pilot induced in an effort to avoid the crowd.
I wouldnt think a missing trim tab would cause that level of problem, but could be indicative of other issues. Then again at 400mph...
Looking at the picture just before impact, he's starting to angle away from the crowd. Wonder if that was pilot induced in an effort to avoid the crowd.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
The tail wheel being down is due to the extreme G's the plane was pulling in the dive. Pilot was knocked unconscious and pinned against the dashboard which is why he is not visible. There are some photos of the ghost when it is inverted and you can see Jimmy's helmet against the dashboard. The trim tab can cause some very serious issues, another highly modded mustang had the same problem many years back but went straight up and at around 9k feet the pilot regained consciousness and brought her in safely. At over 450 mph bad things happen when things fail and/or fall off of airplanes. It was a real tragedy and my heart goes out to all those involved and to the pilot, he was a real nice man and a great pilot.
The tail wheel being down is due to the extreme G's the plane was pulling in the dive. Pilot was knocked unconscious and pinned against the dashboard which is why he is not visible. There are some photos of the ghost when it is inverted and you can see Jimmy's helmet against the dashboard. The trim tab can cause some very serious issues, another highly modded mustang had the same problem many years back but went straight up and at around 9k feet the pilot regained consciousness and brought her in safely. At over 450 mph bad things happen when things fail and/or fall off of airplanes. It was a real tragedy and my heart goes out to all those involved and to the pilot, he was a real nice man and a great pilot.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
This mustang had 5 feet shaved off EACH wing, meaning a 10 foot reduction in wingspan.
To me it looked like he tip stalled but he was at 500mph so that's unlikely.
As Boise says...
This mustang had 5 feet shaved off EACH wing, meaning a 10 foot reduction in wingspan.
To me it looked like he tip stalled but he was at 500mph so that's unlikely.
As Boise says...
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
I'm sorry for the guy, he could have been the nicest guy in the world. But I'm really sorry to see such an important part of our military history first mangled nearly beyond recognition and then destroyed.
I'm sorry for the guy, he could have been the nicest guy in the world. But I'm really sorry to see such an important part of our military history first mangled nearly beyond recognition and then destroyed.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Most of the Unlimited gold p-51's are highly modded. Check out voodoo, strega and dago red if you want to see more. I agree it is a shame to cut up a great piece of history like they do, but on the other hand it is part of the sport.
Most of the Unlimited gold p-51's are highly modded. Check out voodoo, strega and dago red if you want to see more. I agree it is a shame to cut up a great piece of history like they do, but on the other hand it is part of the sport.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
Good point BT about the tail wheel. I've since learned the hydraulics for a P51 tail wheel will fail around 8gs. Snap 8+gs on anyone, let alone a 75 year old guy, and you're going to sleep. Tragic.
Good point BT about the tail wheel. I've since learned the hydraulics for a P51 tail wheel will fail around 8gs. Snap 8+gs on anyone, let alone a 75 year old guy, and you're going to sleep. Tragic.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boise Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pilot was knocked unconscious and pinned against the dashboard which is why he is not visible. </div></div>
What are you basing THAT statement on?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boise Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pilot was knocked unconscious and pinned against the dashboard which is why he is not visible. </div></div>
What are you basing THAT statement on?
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boise Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pilot was knocked unconscious and pinned against the dashboard which is why he is not visible. </div></div>
What are you basing THAT statement on? </div></div>
1. The two photos in this thread show no pilot in the cockpit. He cant go backwards in the pit so that leaves one direction to go.
2. Photo attached shows Jimmy's white helmet against the dash.
3. Onboard telemetry showed 10.5 g's, and I dont know anyone who would not go to sleep with that many g's.
4. Similar situation many years back when voodoo lost a trim tab, knocked the pilot out and thankfully just went straight up and he was able to regain consciousness and land the plane safely. That situation registered 10 g's on the pilot at the time of pitch up.
5. As stated earlier in this thread it takes around 8 g's for the hydraulic system to fail and deploy the tail gear.
High g's are rough on pilots especially when you are not expecting them. This situation the pilot was faced with a high g pitch up and then a high g dive, no pilot regardless of their age would have been able to stay conscious during this event.
I have attended the races since I was 8. I did not go this year thankfully, but i had family there and they are ok. I am just going off of the information that is available to the public.
I am not an expert nor am I claiming to be. Just going off of what I know about airplanes and the photos, videos and information that is available to the public if you do some research and know where to look.
I am sick of seeing all the bullshit the media is coming up with and the disinformation that is out there on this subject.
Jimmy was an excellent pilot and he would have done everything in his power to avoid the crowd, but with all the photos and video I just don't think he was awake to try.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boise Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pilot was knocked unconscious and pinned against the dashboard which is why he is not visible. </div></div>
What are you basing THAT statement on? </div></div>
1. The two photos in this thread show no pilot in the cockpit. He cant go backwards in the pit so that leaves one direction to go.
2. Photo attached shows Jimmy's white helmet against the dash.
3. Onboard telemetry showed 10.5 g's, and I dont know anyone who would not go to sleep with that many g's.
4. Similar situation many years back when voodoo lost a trim tab, knocked the pilot out and thankfully just went straight up and he was able to regain consciousness and land the plane safely. That situation registered 10 g's on the pilot at the time of pitch up.
5. As stated earlier in this thread it takes around 8 g's for the hydraulic system to fail and deploy the tail gear.
High g's are rough on pilots especially when you are not expecting them. This situation the pilot was faced with a high g pitch up and then a high g dive, no pilot regardless of their age would have been able to stay conscious during this event.
I have attended the races since I was 8. I did not go this year thankfully, but i had family there and they are ok. I am just going off of the information that is available to the public.
I am not an expert nor am I claiming to be. Just going off of what I know about airplanes and the photos, videos and information that is available to the public if you do some research and know where to look.
I am sick of seeing all the bullshit the media is coming up with and the disinformation that is out there on this subject.
Jimmy was an excellent pilot and he would have done everything in his power to avoid the crowd, but with all the photos and video I just don't think he was awake to try.
Re: RENO AIR SHOW CRASH!
I think Boise is right. One thing I have learned about crashes is that you really dont know until you know, and sometimes you can never know. But in this case Boise's theory is pretty sound based on what is known right now.
They key isnt the amount of G, it is the onset. Trained individuals can handle even sustained nine and ten g pulls IF they are ready. Dont get me wrong, even then it is tough. If you are not ready to get "on top" of the G when it begins then you cannot recover until the G subsides. The higher the onset rate, the tougher it is to get in front of it, and once you are behind it can be difficult to impossible to catch up. The best student pilot I ever trained was dead less than a year after my last flight with him...GLOC in an F-16. This guy was a world class athlete (was asked to attend NFL training camp), but went and did a two year masters degree from Harvard instead. Smart, talented, humble, a real pro. He knew on that flight it was coming yet it still got him - thats how tough it is.
A rapid unexpected pitch up with extreme g is likely to result in immediate G-LOC for anyone.
Prayers for the families involved. I have a friend who was about 75 feet away, the concussion knocked them over but he was not hit by debris. The scene was horrific. Thankfully the aircraft was at angle away from the stands. If it had corkscrewed left instead of right, it would have been directed into the grandstands instead of slightly away,even worse than it already is.
I think Boise is right. One thing I have learned about crashes is that you really dont know until you know, and sometimes you can never know. But in this case Boise's theory is pretty sound based on what is known right now.
They key isnt the amount of G, it is the onset. Trained individuals can handle even sustained nine and ten g pulls IF they are ready. Dont get me wrong, even then it is tough. If you are not ready to get "on top" of the G when it begins then you cannot recover until the G subsides. The higher the onset rate, the tougher it is to get in front of it, and once you are behind it can be difficult to impossible to catch up. The best student pilot I ever trained was dead less than a year after my last flight with him...GLOC in an F-16. This guy was a world class athlete (was asked to attend NFL training camp), but went and did a two year masters degree from Harvard instead. Smart, talented, humble, a real pro. He knew on that flight it was coming yet it still got him - thats how tough it is.
A rapid unexpected pitch up with extreme g is likely to result in immediate G-LOC for anyone.
Prayers for the families involved. I have a friend who was about 75 feet away, the concussion knocked them over but he was not hit by debris. The scene was horrific. Thankfully the aircraft was at angle away from the stands. If it had corkscrewed left instead of right, it would have been directed into the grandstands instead of slightly away,even worse than it already is.
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