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Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
This has been beat to death on other threads, but from what I understand Federal's "recipe" is unique as they use a powder thats not commercially available. However if you go into the reloading depot, you can finds loads that are close.
This has been beat to death on other threads, but from what I understand Federal's "recipe" is unique as they use a powder thats not commercially available. However if you go into the reloading depot, you can finds loads that are close.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage 10fp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been beat to death on other threads, but from what I understand Federal's "recipe" is unique as they use a powder thats not commercially available. However if you go into the reloading depot, you can finds loads that are close. </div></div>
"Beat to death" ? perhaps; however I don't live on this site and only check in when I have access. My search on this forum turned up too much information to read in the time available, therefore I requested a specific piece of load information. I have heard that about Federal before, but I believe they just aren't revealing their powder, which I understand.
I appreciate your help.
Regards,
RVS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage 10fp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been beat to death on other threads, but from what I understand Federal's "recipe" is unique as they use a powder thats not commercially available. However if you go into the reloading depot, you can finds loads that are close. </div></div>
"Beat to death" ? perhaps; however I don't live on this site and only check in when I have access. My search on this forum turned up too much information to read in the time available, therefore I requested a specific piece of load information. I have heard that about Federal before, but I believe they just aren't revealing their powder, which I understand.
I appreciate your help.
Regards,
RVS
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
Use IMR 4064, find a node you like, shoot and enjoy.
Use IMR 4064, find a node you like, shoot and enjoy.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
For the 168 gr? I found 42.8 gr of R-15 came close.
For the 168 gr? I found 42.8 gr of R-15 came close.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
I've also seen a lot of guys "replicate" the load with varget... around 44-45 grains. But like someone else said, do a ladder test and find your node.
I've also seen a lot of guys "replicate" the load with varget... around 44-45 grains. But like someone else said, do a ladder test and find your node.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
I use Varget. 175 SMK 43-45. 168 SMK 44-45. You will have to see what your rifle likes. As someone above mentioned, you can get a better idea what everyone else is using by going to the depot section. People list barrel length, twist, components used, and velocity of the round.
Here is the link:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=323517#Post323517
I use Varget. 175 SMK 43-45. 168 SMK 44-45. You will have to see what your rifle likes. As someone above mentioned, you can get a better idea what everyone else is using by going to the depot section. People list barrel length, twist, components used, and velocity of the round.
Here is the link:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=323517#Post323517
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
I tried that awhile back and couldn't get it exactly. I ended up making a ton of 43.5 varget + win brass for 175 and 178 as that works excellently in every 308 I have.
I tried that awhile back and couldn't get it exactly. I ended up making a ton of 43.5 varget + win brass for 175 and 178 as that works excellently in every 308 I have.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
Ive shot side by side out to 600yds with my buddy using FGMM and me using my handloads. We both used the same dope card out to 700yds and both hit about the same POI. The rifles were a M700 5R and a M700 PSS. The load was as follows:
168 SMK
Lapua brass
42gr RL-15
BR-2's
But, every rifle will be different and if your going to handload, why not just load for your specific rifle instead of trying to replicate a factory load.
Ive shot side by side out to 600yds with my buddy using FGMM and me using my handloads. We both used the same dope card out to 700yds and both hit about the same POI. The rifles were a M700 5R and a M700 PSS. The load was as follows:
168 SMK
Lapua brass
42gr RL-15
BR-2's
But, every rifle will be different and if your going to handload, why not just load for your specific rifle instead of trying to replicate a factory load.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
While I agree with all the posts here about finding your node for your rifle, there is something to replicating a known good factory load. This may seem overly simplistic, but here's what I did:
I bought a few boxes of FGMM 7.62 NATO 175SMK ammo from Palmetto State Armory pretty cheap. I wanted to duplicate the M118LR cartridge and had been unable to get any. I figured since ATK operates LC now, and they make the M118LR, and this FGMM said 7.62 NATO and NOT .308 WIN, it was probably the same thing or at least as close as I was going to get in commercial ammo (which I don't think it really is commercial) I shot a few over the chronograph. I then proceeded to load ammo to the same velocity and OAL for my test rifle using LC Match, 175SMK, CCI 200, and Varget. Only one of my components is the same as the FGMM - the SMK. I noticed that the FGMM bullet was crimped in place at the case neck, so I applied a slight crimp as well. The primers were sealed as well but I have not duplicate this.
I then shot these out of 4 different .308 rifles - Steyr SBS Tactical, Rem SPS, and two different Noveske 18" N6 rifles. All shot sub-MOA with this load.
I then substituted the 178AMAX for the 175SMK and adjusted my seater die a little to get the same OAL. Same results: sub-MOA in every rifle we tried them in.
Since then, I loaded up a bunch and when I'm at the range and there's a guy shooting a .308 next to me I ask them to try a few of mine to see if they're accurate in his rifle. All rifles tried so far (about 9) shoot sub-MOA with this load.
Now I have a load for the Steyr that shoots sub-half-MOA. It is custom tailored for the rifle. But this FGMM clone with 178AMAX is remarkably consistent in everything I've ever tried it in. I have shot one 5-shot one-hole group at 200 yards with the Steyr, and had one group with the Rem SPS that was 4 touching and the 5th made it 1" at 200 yards but I pulled it and called it before I saw the impact.
My load: LC Match brass (old headstamps like 70-72 - I came across a few thousand once fired cases and am happy with them), 178AMAX, 42.8gr Varget, CCI 200, COAL 2.805, slight crimp.
Another guy here uses 42.5gr and COAL 2.785 and his results are the same as mine.
With WIN brass, go to 44.0gr Varget.
So it can be done. You can come up with a generic load that shoots consistently well in many rifles - like Federal does with the FGMM. It will probably not be THE BEST load in any particular rifle, but it will be acceptable in nearly all.
I have another load that shoots equally well in all rifles I've tried, but it's not quite as sexy: 168SMK, Win brass, CCI 200, 41.0gr Varget, no crimp, COAL 2.805. Velocity is low but it is extremely accurate in every rifle I've tried it in and perfect for punching paper at 200.
While I agree with all the posts here about finding your node for your rifle, there is something to replicating a known good factory load. This may seem overly simplistic, but here's what I did:
I bought a few boxes of FGMM 7.62 NATO 175SMK ammo from Palmetto State Armory pretty cheap. I wanted to duplicate the M118LR cartridge and had been unable to get any. I figured since ATK operates LC now, and they make the M118LR, and this FGMM said 7.62 NATO and NOT .308 WIN, it was probably the same thing or at least as close as I was going to get in commercial ammo (which I don't think it really is commercial) I shot a few over the chronograph. I then proceeded to load ammo to the same velocity and OAL for my test rifle using LC Match, 175SMK, CCI 200, and Varget. Only one of my components is the same as the FGMM - the SMK. I noticed that the FGMM bullet was crimped in place at the case neck, so I applied a slight crimp as well. The primers were sealed as well but I have not duplicate this.
I then shot these out of 4 different .308 rifles - Steyr SBS Tactical, Rem SPS, and two different Noveske 18" N6 rifles. All shot sub-MOA with this load.
I then substituted the 178AMAX for the 175SMK and adjusted my seater die a little to get the same OAL. Same results: sub-MOA in every rifle we tried them in.
Since then, I loaded up a bunch and when I'm at the range and there's a guy shooting a .308 next to me I ask them to try a few of mine to see if they're accurate in his rifle. All rifles tried so far (about 9) shoot sub-MOA with this load.
Now I have a load for the Steyr that shoots sub-half-MOA. It is custom tailored for the rifle. But this FGMM clone with 178AMAX is remarkably consistent in everything I've ever tried it in. I have shot one 5-shot one-hole group at 200 yards with the Steyr, and had one group with the Rem SPS that was 4 touching and the 5th made it 1" at 200 yards but I pulled it and called it before I saw the impact.
My load: LC Match brass (old headstamps like 70-72 - I came across a few thousand once fired cases and am happy with them), 178AMAX, 42.8gr Varget, CCI 200, COAL 2.805, slight crimp.
Another guy here uses 42.5gr and COAL 2.785 and his results are the same as mine.
With WIN brass, go to 44.0gr Varget.
So it can be done. You can come up with a generic load that shoots consistently well in many rifles - like Federal does with the FGMM. It will probably not be THE BEST load in any particular rifle, but it will be acceptable in nearly all.
I have another load that shoots equally well in all rifles I've tried, but it's not quite as sexy: 168SMK, Win brass, CCI 200, 41.0gr Varget, no crimp, COAL 2.805. Velocity is low but it is extremely accurate in every rifle I've tried it in and perfect for punching paper at 200.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
Try this load. Berger 168gr. Match bullets, 45 to 45.5gr. Varget, CCI 250 primers and Nosler brass. I pulled this data from an accuracy test. I have not reloaded my own yet i'm still shooting my M118LR.
Try this load. Berger 168gr. Match bullets, 45 to 45.5gr. Varget, CCI 250 primers and Nosler brass. I pulled this data from an accuracy test. I have not reloaded my own yet i'm still shooting my M118LR.
Re: Replicating the Federal Gold medal match ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: colt933</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I agree with all the posts here about finding your node for your rifle, there is something to replicating a known good factory load. This may seem overly simplistic, but here's what I did:
I bought a few boxes of FGMM 7.62 NATO 175SMK ammo from Palmetto State Armory pretty cheap. I wanted to duplicate the M118LR cartridge and had been unable to get any. I figured since ATK operates LC now, and they make the M118LR, and this FGMM said 7.62 NATO and NOT .308 WIN, it was probably the same thing or at least as close as I was going to get in commercial ammo (which I don't think it really is commercial) I shot a few over the chronograph. I then proceeded to load ammo to the same velocity and OAL for my test rifle using LC Match, 175SMK, CCI 200, and Varget. Only one of my components is the same as the FGMM - the SMK. I noticed that the FGMM bullet was crimped in place at the case neck, so I applied a slight crimp as well. The primers were sealed as well but I have not duplicate this.
I then shot these out of 4 different .308 rifles - Steyr SBS Tactical, Rem SPS, and two different Noveske 18" N6 rifles. All shot sub-MOA with this load.
I then substituted the 178AMAX for the 175SMK and adjusted my seater die a little to get the same OAL. Same results: sub-MOA in every rifle we tried them in.
Since then, I loaded up a bunch and when I'm at the range and there's a guy shooting a .308 next to me I ask them to try a few of mine to see if they're accurate in his rifle. All rifles tried so far (about 9) shoot sub-MOA with this load.
Now I have a load for the Steyr that shoots sub-half-MOA. It is custom tailored for the rifle. But this FGMM clone with 178AMAX is remarkably consistent in everything I've ever tried it in. I have shot one 5-shot one-hole group at 200 yards with the Steyr, and had one group with the Rem SPS that was 4 touching and the 5th made it 1" at 200 yards but I pulled it and called it before I saw the impact.
My load: LC Match brass (old headstamps like 70-72 - I came across a few thousand once fired cases and am happy with them), 178AMAX, 42.8gr Varget, CCI 200, COAL 2.805, slight crimp.
Another guy here uses 42.5gr and COAL 2.785 and his results are the same as mine.
So it can be done. You can come up with a generic load that shoots consistently well in many rifles - like Federal does with the FGMM. It will probably not be THE BEST load in any particular rifle, but it will be acceptable in nearly all.
I have another load that shoots equally well in all rifles I've tried, but it's not quite as sexy: 168SMK, Win brass, CCI 200, 41.0gr Varget, no crimp, COAL 2.805. Velocity is low but it is extremely accurate in every rifle I've tried it in and perfect for punching paper at 200. </div></div>
Bingo, That's right where my tests have taken me, with one exception. CCI BR2 is my primer. I was hoping to get a confirmation. I concur with your opinion. Node testing or not, a good quality ammo that test well in a litany of quality test rifles is possible.
I appreciate you sharing your findings.
Best Regards, RVS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: colt933</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I agree with all the posts here about finding your node for your rifle, there is something to replicating a known good factory load. This may seem overly simplistic, but here's what I did:
I bought a few boxes of FGMM 7.62 NATO 175SMK ammo from Palmetto State Armory pretty cheap. I wanted to duplicate the M118LR cartridge and had been unable to get any. I figured since ATK operates LC now, and they make the M118LR, and this FGMM said 7.62 NATO and NOT .308 WIN, it was probably the same thing or at least as close as I was going to get in commercial ammo (which I don't think it really is commercial) I shot a few over the chronograph. I then proceeded to load ammo to the same velocity and OAL for my test rifle using LC Match, 175SMK, CCI 200, and Varget. Only one of my components is the same as the FGMM - the SMK. I noticed that the FGMM bullet was crimped in place at the case neck, so I applied a slight crimp as well. The primers were sealed as well but I have not duplicate this.
I then shot these out of 4 different .308 rifles - Steyr SBS Tactical, Rem SPS, and two different Noveske 18" N6 rifles. All shot sub-MOA with this load.
I then substituted the 178AMAX for the 175SMK and adjusted my seater die a little to get the same OAL. Same results: sub-MOA in every rifle we tried them in.
Since then, I loaded up a bunch and when I'm at the range and there's a guy shooting a .308 next to me I ask them to try a few of mine to see if they're accurate in his rifle. All rifles tried so far (about 9) shoot sub-MOA with this load.
Now I have a load for the Steyr that shoots sub-half-MOA. It is custom tailored for the rifle. But this FGMM clone with 178AMAX is remarkably consistent in everything I've ever tried it in. I have shot one 5-shot one-hole group at 200 yards with the Steyr, and had one group with the Rem SPS that was 4 touching and the 5th made it 1" at 200 yards but I pulled it and called it before I saw the impact.
My load: LC Match brass (old headstamps like 70-72 - I came across a few thousand once fired cases and am happy with them), 178AMAX, 42.8gr Varget, CCI 200, COAL 2.805, slight crimp.
Another guy here uses 42.5gr and COAL 2.785 and his results are the same as mine.
So it can be done. You can come up with a generic load that shoots consistently well in many rifles - like Federal does with the FGMM. It will probably not be THE BEST load in any particular rifle, but it will be acceptable in nearly all.
I have another load that shoots equally well in all rifles I've tried, but it's not quite as sexy: 168SMK, Win brass, CCI 200, 41.0gr Varget, no crimp, COAL 2.805. Velocity is low but it is extremely accurate in every rifle I've tried it in and perfect for punching paper at 200. </div></div>
Bingo, That's right where my tests have taken me, with one exception. CCI BR2 is my primer. I was hoping to get a confirmation. I concur with your opinion. Node testing or not, a good quality ammo that test well in a litany of quality test rifles is possible.
I appreciate you sharing your findings.
Best Regards, RVS
My load: LC Match brass (old headstamps like 70-72 - I came across a few thousand once fired cases and am happy with them), 178AMAX, 42.8gr Varget, CCI 200, COAL 2.805, slight crimp.
Another guy here uses 42.5gr and COAL 2.785 and his results are the same as mine.
With WIN brass, go to 44.0gr Varget.
So it can be done. You can come up with a generic load that shoots consistently well in many rifles - like Federal does with the FGMM. It will probably not be THE BEST load in any particular rifle, but it will be acceptable in nearly all.
I have another load that shoots equally well in all rifles I've tried, but it's not quite as sexy: 168SMK, Win brass, CCI 200, 41.0gr Varget, no crimp, COAL 2.805. Velocity is low but it is extremely accurate in every rifle I've tried it in and perfect for punching paper at 200.[/QUOTE]
If you don't mind me asking, how much of a jump are using?
Another guy here uses 42.5gr and COAL 2.785 and his results are the same as mine.
With WIN brass, go to 44.0gr Varget.
So it can be done. You can come up with a generic load that shoots consistently well in many rifles - like Federal does with the FGMM. It will probably not be THE BEST load in any particular rifle, but it will be acceptable in nearly all.
I have another load that shoots equally well in all rifles I've tried, but it's not quite as sexy: 168SMK, Win brass, CCI 200, 41.0gr Varget, no crimp, COAL 2.805. Velocity is low but it is extremely accurate in every rifle I've tried it in and perfect for punching paper at 200.[/QUOTE]
If you don't mind me asking, how much of a jump are using?
This is what Im loading and it shoots identical to the FGMM load.
IMR 4064 at 42gr
175 SMKs
FGMM trimmed to 2.005
Federal 210 primers
OAl 2.800
Out of a stock 700 SPS barreled action I shot a .58 5 shot group last weekend at 100 yards. I will be testing this more this weekend.
Here is a thread to check out:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...l-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a-3.html
IMR 4064 at 42gr
175 SMKs
FGMM trimmed to 2.005
Federal 210 primers
OAl 2.800
Out of a stock 700 SPS barreled action I shot a .58 5 shot group last weekend at 100 yards. I will be testing this more this weekend.
Here is a thread to check out:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...l-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a-3.html
Just a thought on duplicating a load from factory ammo, perhaps im over simplifying this but it seems through some investigation this could be done. I would say start by shooting this load over a chronograph record avg. speed. Then measure a cartridge from same batch, then pull it to recover powder and bullet. You would want to measure crimp, case, ogive length, C.O.A.L.. You would then look at the powder is it ball, flake, or cylindrical, i don't know as I've never pulled a GMM cartridge. So now you know the speed, you know powder weight, all dimensions including amount of crimp. Look at powder compared to other powders if it is a shrt cylinder shape then begin your search there with all powders of that shape. Take those powders and go to the books and find a powder that would produce the same velocities with the identical amount. This I know may be tricky as some factory loads exceed tables but you would be close at this point and should be able to work up to this while checking it. Dont rule out looking at color of the powder when searching as this is a good hint to type of powder, I have a large array of powders and when compared side by side they are different colors...simply a hint though. Once you have found a powder that produces the identical speed, takes up same amount of case capacity, same shape of kernnells, have loaded same dimensions with identical crimp I would say you have found this load. My only question is why would you want to do all this, just work up a load that shoots out of a good powder you have and enjoy shooting this...lol. I have seen rifles that didnt shoot that great with federal GMM, but would shoot quite well with a load worked up for that particular rifle. Just a thought, maybe Im way off here but simply an idea of how to find an unknown load. 
Many years ago I attended a law enforcement training seminar where a representative of Federal was giving a talk. He was asked that question. He said that because they buy powder in huge bulk containers, they have to chrono each batch. They try to get to the best velocity consistency right around 2600 fps, and call it good. I have gotten faster speeds off my chrono with their ammo, but maybe I have a fast barrel.
A load that has worked great for me is Lake city NM brass, CCI BR2 primers, 175 SMK bullet, and 43.5 of Varget.
A load that has worked great for me is Lake city NM brass, CCI BR2 primers, 175 SMK bullet, and 43.5 of Varget.
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