- Thread starter rommel500
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I now have the Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor in hand but don't plan on going down to 6MM with it. I do have both 6.5 and 6 Creeds and have plenty of brass for both in the Hornady brand. Contrary to what others say I get very good service life and superb accuracy from it. I see absolutely no reason this Lapua brass can't be "down-sized" to 6MM as long as the work is performed in a competent manner.
Have some Lapua 6.5 CM brass on the way that I plan on resizing to 6mm CM and will let you know how it goes. I have had good results with Hornady CM brass for my precision rifles and see no need to change for them. The Lapua brass will be used in my FO mid range rifle.
Forming 6.5 L down to 6L is an easy one step process in a non-bushing die.
When I got my lapua 6.5 CM samples from SHOT, I ran them into my forster 6x47L die (same shoulder angle and nearly identical shoulder dia) to make them into 6CM.
In short, if you have a 6CM die, you should be good. Only caveat would be bushing dies. The bushings arent ideal for this. They typically dont size the whole neck(if you wanted to), and their inside chamfer may not be friendly to taking a .019 larger neck. The workaround would be to use an intermediate size bushing to break the necking operation into two steps. Ive done both ways with various cartridges. Get a forster non bushing die, they're nicer than redding dies, and cheaper. IMO
Something else to note is that the Lapua brass is short in headspace. About .005-.006 short of a go gauge. The necking process would give you the opportunity to create a false shoulder in the neck, which the case could headspace off of during the first firing.
edited: loaded round neck diameter for my 6CM test samples were .2714. .268-.269 bushings would work.
When I got my lapua 6.5 CM samples from SHOT, I ran them into my forster 6x47L die (same shoulder angle and nearly identical shoulder dia) to make them into 6CM.
In short, if you have a 6CM die, you should be good. Only caveat would be bushing dies. The bushings arent ideal for this. They typically dont size the whole neck(if you wanted to), and their inside chamfer may not be friendly to taking a .019 larger neck. The workaround would be to use an intermediate size bushing to break the necking operation into two steps. Ive done both ways with various cartridges. Get a forster non bushing die, they're nicer than redding dies, and cheaper. IMO
Something else to note is that the Lapua brass is short in headspace. About .005-.006 short of a go gauge. The necking process would give you the opportunity to create a false shoulder in the neck, which the case could headspace off of during the first firing.
edited: loaded round neck diameter for my 6CM test samples were .2714. .268-.269 bushings would work.
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I'm interested as well.
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^^^^ What he said, I would also recommend sticking with a Forster non-bushing die or a Hornady 6CM die. You can use a bushing die if you plan on expanding the necks to perform neck turning, which I also highly recommend you do.
I did a piece of sample brass I snagged from SHOT show. Loaded neck diameter is basically identical to that of Hornady 6 creed headstamp. Just used a Redding non-bushing die.
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It's been about 10 months, and 6.5 Creed Lapua brass is not really a "new" thing anymore. Also, 6 Creed continues to rise in popularity, so I'm looking to revive this thread.
I'm switching my AR-10 from 243 to 6 Creed and would like to use the same Lapua brass as my 6.5. The small primers are a selling point for me.
I'm switching my AR-10 from 243 to 6 Creed and would like to use the same Lapua brass as my 6.5. The small primers are a selling point for me.
Does anyone have more info on this? I'd like to use a bushing die, but is it better to use a non-bushing die for the initial neck-down? Is neck-turning a must?
Is it better to do it in a two-step process like discussed for the 6x47L here: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/10/smart-way-to-neck-down-65x47-to-6mm/
?
Is it better to do it in a two-step process like discussed for the 6x47L here: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/10/smart-way-to-neck-down-65x47-to-6mm/
?
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It is better to use a non bushing in the first size down as a bushing die doesn’t go the entire length of the neck. You’ll have 90% 6 with a donut of 6.5 for the bottom 10% with a bushing.
Turning is a must depending on the neck of your chamber so I can’t say.
Yes incremental steps is best so that each section goes gradually and evenly and resists the temptation to fold or warp in some way with a large step. Now whether you’ll have those issues we can’t say until you try it but the safe way is the best way in my mind. Lapua is consistent stuff though.
Turning is a must depending on the neck of your chamber so I can’t say.
Yes incremental steps is best so that each section goes gradually and evenly and resists the temptation to fold or warp in some way with a large step. Now whether you’ll have those issues we can’t say until you try it but the safe way is the best way in my mind. Lapua is consistent stuff though.
I’ve done both methods, and either seems to work. When I use a bushing die, I always do two steps. The bushings, with their minimal chamfer, don’t like one step. Lapua creedmoor brass is fairly short in headspace, so if you ended up with a slight false shoulder it likely wouldn’t affect you. I cant imagine your ar-10 chamber being smaller than saami in the neck. I’ve never had to turn any neck when just going down one caliber.
One-step sizing in a non-bushing die is all that's needed when sizing down Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor to 6mm Creedmoor, followed by expanding and neck-turning into the neck-shoulder junction as the shoulder material in Lapua brass is thicker than the neck and DOES create a donut when sized down to 6mm Creedmoor.
That doesn’t make sense. When you’re going down a step, the base of the old neck becomes the top of the new shoulder, so if anything, you’re moving further away from a donut. I’ve never neck turned a necked 47 or creedmoor case.
necking up may cause what you’re describing.
necking up may cause what you’re describing.
When sizing down (especially in the case of forming down with Lapua and Norma brass as their shoulder material is thicker than the neck material) you are turning shoulder material into neck material and increasing the overall length of the case itself.
6mm Creedmoor fired case baseline headspace:
Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor Headspace
Sized 6.5 CM to 6mm CM - Headspace INCREASED in length
6.5 CM OAL length before sizing
6mm CM OAL INCREASED 0.010" after sizing
Lapua 6mm before expanded (notice flared case mouth and donut at the base) I've checked the inside of the case mouth at this point with pin gauges and there is a donut that is created.
Lapua 6mm expanded, donut has been expanded to the outside and ready for neck turning.
6mm Creedmoor fired case baseline headspace:
Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor Headspace
Sized 6.5 CM to 6mm CM - Headspace INCREASED in length
6.5 CM OAL length before sizing
6mm CM OAL INCREASED 0.010" after sizing
Lapua 6mm before expanded (notice flared case mouth and donut at the base) I've checked the inside of the case mouth at this point with pin gauges and there is a donut that is created.
Lapua 6mm expanded, donut has been expanded to the outside and ready for neck turning.
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The shoulder of your die is contacting the shoulder of the case, which is where your growing headspace dimension is coming from. The neck is growing for the same reason. What you’re calling a donut on outside of the base of the neck is just unsized neck. In the same fashion that the mouth is flairing, there’s deformation as the neck squeezes the into the bushing, which is what your pin gauge is likely running into. Your mandrel should correct this. Any chamber with proper freebore will keep the boat tail/bearing surface junction away from there anyway, and once fired, it will iron any deformation out. In no way is any shoulder material becoming neck upon necking down.
In my experience, prior to expanding, my pin gauge seats all the way into the case mouth until it runs into the neck-shoulder junction, not before.
True, the boattail of the bullet never gets there anyways.
True, the boattail of the bullet never gets there anyways.
I understood what you meant about where the pin gauge stops. Its the neck deforming inward, not extra material from the shoulder area. You can test this by firing the newly formed case, and doing the pin gauge test again, assuming you have the appropriate larger pin gauge.
