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Reticle jump down with dry fire fix?

Joesmurf

Private
Minuteman
Feb 5, 2020
18
1
I dry fire with a basic .223 gas gun and 6 ARC gas gun and my main problem is that when I pull the trigger the POA jumps about 1 MOA down. This is standing supported or tall kneeling supported on a pint sized game changer with some pressure into buttstock to help with spotting shots. When I do more free recoil, it gets much better.

I’m guessing my NPA is off? Any tips or trips would be appreciated.
 
Must be from the hammer striking forward.
So the front of the rifle might not be so well supported. I have sometimes noticed this same issue too.

In my opinion accuracy should not necessary rely on having secure bipod loading, try also removing the bag and replacing it with your palm/fist under the stock. Bags can cause a variety of issues, the moment you start thinking it is doing work for you and use it in a set and forget it - style manner, it becomes a liability.

In fact I use it quite often under my hand just to help rise my hand to support the rifle stock better.
 
Natural Point of Aim,
Rifle Pointed to Target, Body pointed to Rifle

The gross adjustment for NPA Is to set the reticle on target, close your eyes and go through several breathing cycles, (in and out about 3x) open your eyes and see if the reticle is where you left it, if it is not, you have to adjust your body and rifle together to correct this (wash, rinse, repeat)

The Fine Tune Test of NPA - Dry Fire

The reticle should not move or jump... if it jumps off-target, (it usually clicks off an inch or so from the center) if it does that is a indication your NPA needs to be fine tuned
 
That makes a lot of sense and gives me a good place to start. Thanks for the feedback! I will start at the ground and really work on the NPA.
 
This just... happens. The rifle did indeed slightly move either (or both) because of the firing action or your body (unless your scope is loose). Its particularly prevalent in light rifles and I notice it more in chassis rifles that don't dampen the firing action like those heavy "wood" competition stocks. My chassis rifles reticles might move maybe .2 mil... certainly not an ENTIRE mil though. So, yeah, work on dry fire, all that. But I feel like you'd have to duct tape the rifle to a marble platform to prevent this from happening. The rifle in that case cannot move. That's not reality.

In practicing, I was told I released grip on the bag a bit right when I pulled the trigger. That realization improved by rear bag shooting a lot.

Was the reticle pointed where you wanted it when the pin struck? That's what matters.
 
The rifle to body connection cannot be overlooked here. Likewise, the stability of the support structure, the position of the support hand, the pressure on the system, etc.

Practice more, with small targets. Like 1” diamonds at 100 yards for live fire. Make the target you dry fire at very small...no more than .2 mil. If your reticle jumps out of that diamond on dry fire, it’s very unlikely you will have an impact inside the diamond. If the reticle jumps, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE SOMETHING TO KEEP IT STILL. Body position, grip, cheek pressure, pull, push, support hand position, how well the rifle is settled into the bag, or all of the above. The more you practice, the sooner you will figure out which…shoot slow and think about each shot.

@lowlight is not wrong about NPA but you do have to interact with the rifle to press the trigger and you probably have some trigger weight to overcome…so it’s not exactly as simple as making sure the undisturbed rifle is pointing at the target. The “fine tune” that he talks about is critical and as it improves, you’ll realize the “gross adjustment” happens easier too.

A vertical jump would have me looking at pressure against the butt…probably too much. Additionally, if the support/barricade is wobbly, you will see vertical, particularly if you are pushing into it too much. I find a little less pressure helps my standing shots and a little more works better for kneeling, for me, assuming a very stable barricade. There’s a fine line between pushing too much, and “free recoil” and it’s often different for each rifle and for each position. Try a slightly stronger pull with your grasper fingers to help with recoil instead of pushing into the back of the rifle. Overcoming all the propaganda about “driving the rifle” and the usefulness of “barricade stops” is a challenge you will have to sort for yourself but the sooner you do it, the better.

Pay close attention to where your weight/center of gravity is. If you are leaning in to the rifle, I think you are pushing too hard. Keep your weight over your feet/knees. Try a position with the buttstock closer to your midline. This alone makes a noticeable difference in my positional shooting. Meaning, closer to midline, it is noticeably easier to keep the reticle still through dry fire and my groups are measurably smaller in live fire.

Its a process that, more than anything, takes deliberate effort. Go check out riflekraft.com for a helpful drill/analysis tool. No, I’m not affiliated.
 
Digging up this thread, sorry dudes. Can't seem to find an answer anywhere. Question. I've tried all of this. NPA all the fundemtnals. I'm aiming at a 1/4 inch dots at 60 yards. It will jump, but it will stay within the 1/4 dot. Even with snap caps. Is this normal?
 
Try looser rear support, does the jump get stronger?
Then try to tighten first the firing hand grip and then the offhand. Mind the shoulder support = even pressure.
 
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Is there play in your upper and lower receiver fit? Depending on the inputs into the rifle and position, dropping the hammer can make it jump a bit.
There actually is. I have an aero gen 2 I'll tighten it up and see it that helps.
 
Well I just tightened it up and dry fired 25 times. Reticle only jumped once on me, which was probably me. I noticed when the hammer was dropping it would sometimes move maybe 1/8 on an inch but would return to it's spot when the hammer hit the pin. Still need to work on the fundemtnals, but that saved me a shit load of frustration. Much appreciated!!!