Rifle Balance. What is it?

IPoutdoors

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you here this term thrown a lot in PRS. this or that balances better. But what is the standard fulcrum we use to measure this? how far forward of the magazine?
 

Mordamer

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    For the most part everyone is just throwing weight at their rifles and claiming they needed to do that to balance the rifle. Instead of placing a weight limit on open class rifles we all just decided to carry around 25 lb rifles at matches and whenever someone from outside the sport questions the practicality of our ridiculous rifles we tell them that we had to add the weight to get the rifle to "balance". If people were really seeking to "balance" their rifle they'd be taking weight off of certain areas just as much as adding it in other areas.

    I'm an avid competitor in PRS. I hear the balance term thrown around all the time. Whenever someone adds 2 lbs of weight to the butt and then adds 2 pounds of weight to the forend and claims it is to "balance" I find it funny. The balance point probably didn't move at all, but the weight increased.

    I find the desirable balance point of a PRS rifle to be in front of the front action screw about 3 inches. Most positional shooting will place the rifle on a bag in this area of the forend. If the balance point of the rifle is just in front of the center of support of the bag it helps keep muzzle rise down under recoil because the recoil has to lift the rifles weight.

    The whole unlimited weight thing drives me crazy. If we had an 18 lb limit for scope+rifle then we could all carry around lighter weight rifles and the best shooters would still win. Now I'm forced to compete with a tank of a rifle just to keep from having a disadvantage. End rant. haha
     
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    IPoutdoors

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    I am with you on that. what I find funny is people paying a lot of money on adding weights at the forend instead of just getting a thicker profile barrel to begin with. that way the weight is being utilized for something like heat dissipation etc...

    good info about the balance point and recoil lifting the forward weight. although, I do think too much weight is a thing in PRS especially with 6br variant cartridges.
     

    XLR308

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    I am with you on that. what I find funny is people paying a lot of money on adding weights at the forend instead of just getting a thicker profile barrel to begin with. that way the weight is being utilized for something like heat dissipation etc...

    good info about the balance point and recoil lifting the forward weight. although, I do think too much weight is a thing in PRS especially with 6br variant cartridges.
    Have you ever actually built a rifle or put any consideration into any you have bought ?
     

    Baron23

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    In airplanes we required a forward center of gravity (balance point) as if it got far back it was less responsive in pitch and if bad enough it would kill you.

    I’m really a rifle novice and the shooting on bag off of a barricade was a good point about where to balance for that sport. Hadn’t thought about that. At 68, I don’t think I’m shooting PRS, but I’m often wrong.

    But I’m finding a slightly rear heavy gun to be more stable (really don’t think I’m looking for responsiveness here) off of bench and prone.

    With a 2 x 4, a can as a fulcrum, and some weight, you can easily demonstrate this.

    Carry on, I need another scotch. :)
     
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    Dthomas3523

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    yes. yes. your point?
    His point is likely that from your posts, you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the subject.Most people are running m24, mtu, or straight taper barrels. Your suggestion that people aren’t using heavier barrels implies you don’t have much experience with this.

    Balance is the exactly what it says, balance. Some balance the rifle after adding a bunch of weight and others just add weight to balance the rifle.

    And balance is subjective. Some like the rifle to be rearward heavy so they can use their support hand to move rifle vertically. Others like it to balance just ahead of the magwell. I personally like mine to balance a few inches ahead of magwell. When I set the rifle on a bag, I can walk away and the rifle will sit there.
     

    want2learn

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    when i consider balance, i think of it in both dynamic as well as static terms. by altering weight and distribution (in addition to many other factors) one can notably alter or modify comfort, agility, stability, harmonics, cycling, response to recoil forces etc. I found this to be particularly true in the pistol and shotgun sports where i had much more experience.....i would imagine that these effects would similarly be noted in rifle as well.

    if you have the good fortune to shoot a"well balanced and well fitting shotgun" you will note that the shotgun will feel light in hand (not too light and not too heavy), it swings beautifully, controlled....not to hard to get moving and doesn't overshoot the swing.... and so we feel confident in the way it handles resulting often in a more reproducible and efficient shot. I have similarly felt this on some well crafted, well balanced and well fit pistols.

    i.e. If you throw off harmonics or alter the response to angular momentum you will perceive a change in dynamic balance.

    for the PRS shooter i would imagine these characteristics would/could play an even more significant effect when positional shooting, free hand shooting and shooting movers.
     
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    mtruong

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    25 lbs is only heavy if you think it's heavy. Might need to work on that fitness if you want to take advantage of the benefits of a beefier rifle.
     
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    Mordamer

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    25 lbs is only heavy if you think it's heavy. Might need to work on that fitness if you want to take advantage of the benefits of a beefier rifle.
    Wrong. 25 lbs is heavy for any man portable weapon system regardless of what I or you think.
     

    JustSendit

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    25 lbs is only heavy if you think it's heavy. Might need to work on that fitness if you want to take advantage of the benefits of a beefier rifle.
    Lol nah dude 25lbs is heavy for a bolt gun I don’t care the application. I mean I got it, PRS is a game bring whatever you want but don’t pretend 25lbs is practical for anything else besides moving around at a PRS comp.
     

    Nfrantz87

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    I'm starting to rethink my whole build now. I was going for light to move quicker and easier. My RimX is light but now cloning it for a Centerfire. I shot my first centerfire match a few weeks ago and was hooked other than how crazy heavy especially nose heavy the loaner rifle was. I never considered the weight to help mitigate recoil and stay on target easier. The one guy that basically wins ever rimfire match we go to has a Vudoo that weighs 24lbs. I never understood it.
     

    Tommy m

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    I too just recently started shooting prs competitions and I’m hooked. I have an rpr that I’ve done a lot to over the years. It has a Magpul prs stock and is still rear heavy even with a 26” LRI barrel. I’m switching to a catalyst arms hand guard with Arca rail and a 6mm barrel. Part of the reason I’m switching to that hand guard is so I can add mlock weights to the front to balance it where it rests on the bag in front of the magazine. I never weighed the rifle and wasn’t planning on it, I just wanted to balance it. Does that make me bad? Lol. So many people & so many opinions, I’m still learning.
     

    CraigG1

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    rifle balance? It's the balance in your bank account after buying rifle+ glass+ extraneous doo dads that you seem to need/want/wish for :ROFLMAO:
     
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    Birddog6424

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    For the most part everyone is just throwing weight at their rifles and claiming they needed to do that to balance the rifle. Instead of placing a weight limit on open class rifles we all just decided to carry around 25 lb rifles at matches and whenever someone from outside the sport questions the practicality of our ridiculous rifles we tell them that we had to add the weight to get the rifle to "balance". If people were really seeking to "balance" their rifle they'd be taking weight off of certain areas just as much as adding it in other areas.

    I'm an avid competitor in PRS. I hear the balance term thrown around all the time. Whenever someone adds 2 lbs of weight to the butt and then adds 2 pounds of weight to the forend and claims it is to "balance" I find it funny. The balance point probably didn't move at all, but the weight increased.

    I find the desirable balance point of a PRS rifle to be in front of the front action screw about 3 inches. Most positional shooting will place the rifle on a bag in this area of the forend. If the balance point of the rifle is just in front of the center of support of the bag it helps keep muzzle rise down under recoil because the recoil has to lift the rifles weight.

    The whole unlimited weight thing drives me crazy. If we had an 18 lb limit for scope+rifle then we could all carry around lighter weight rifles and the best shooters would still win. Now I'm forced to compete with a tank of a rifle just to keep from having a disadvantage. End rant. haha
    For every guy like you, there's a guy like me. I dont believe weight restrictions should exist in Open class. Its Open class, anything goes. Let's not become a sport of rules and regulations and go tumbling down the USPSA rabbit hole.

    We just voted on five new rules for the PRS Rule Book for 2021. I think they are good, make sense changes. They need to happen. So much so that they are passing pretty overwhelmingly in the vote. And I'm sure the shooters will all agree they are good changes.

    Making changes to the Open class by adding restrictions will not go over well with shooters OR the manufacturers supporting the sport.
     
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    mtruong

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    For every guy like you, there's a guy like me. I dont believe weight restrictions should exist in Open class. Its Open class, anything goes. Let's not become a sport of rules and regulations and go tumbling down the USPSA rabbit hole.

    We just voted on five new rules for the PRS Rule Book for 2021. I think they are good, make sense changes. They need to happen. So much so that they are passing pretty overwhelmingly in the vote. And I'm sure the shooters will all agree they are good changes.

    Making changes to the Open class by adding restrictions will not go over well with shooters OR the manufacturers supporting the sport.
    What are the new rules for PRS in 2021?
     

    XLR308

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  • Mar 22, 2018
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    yes. yes. your point?
    I wasnt entirely trying to be a shit head but being serious.
    This thread got lost in the boring zone and just saw it again.
    My pount was what do you consider most benificial in regards to balance ?
    My personal preference is balanced in 2-3" in front of the forward action bolt so i can set it on a bag and walk away without it becoming a my rifle survided this thread.
    I personally call this nuetral balance but i am nowhere near as schooled as some of the competitive shooters it just works for me and what i use since i hunt with my rifles as much as i target shoot with them.
    My 6.5CM is a 23" M24 in A5 pattern stock and my 6.5x47 is a 24" medium palma in a XLR carbon that both ballance the same even though they are much different in weight.