Rimfire scopes and specific questions

sam4886

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I'm looking for a scope to stick on my new CZ 22. Area 419 30 moa rail should be here in a couple hours, so I think any low rings I want should clear just fine with a 50-56mm objective. Is that right?

I was primarily looking at the strike eagle but saw that once the zero stop is installed the travel is limited. Anyone have a strike eagle on a 30 moa rail sword at 50 yards? Does it even need a zero stop or will it be in the first revolution anyway?

Also interested in the midas tac 5-25, but can't find anything about limiting up travel once the zero stop is in. Big Jim seemed to think it was a good compromise on everything.

I've got mostly vortex and athlon glass, so I've mostly been looking at those, but I'm open to pretty much anything. Trying to stay in the $6-800 range with the following features.

34mm tube for elevation adjustment
5-25 ish power: 5-30, 4-24, whatever
Don't give a damn about illumination
2/10 mil tree reticle, 5/10 mil in a pinch
Locking/capped windage would be cool
10 mils per rotation
Short parallax minimum, 15-25 yards


Obviously this is not going to be fantastic glass, but its only gonna go to 300 or so seriously. Longer stuff will be just for fuckery
 
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Blue Warrior

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Check out the Sightron Stac 4-20x50. I have 2, both on Tikka rimfire rifles. Excellent glass, turrets are crisp and eye relief is generous. Camerland has them for 299.
 

sam4886

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That sightron is like exactly the oposite of what I want.

I struggle to get on board with the arken stuff, there's so much variance in the reviews. I'm clearly not against the, realistically, Chinese budget based on my first post, but I'd have to see a lot more good reviews in the arkens before I bite.
 

sjmpcc022

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That sightron is like exactly the oposite of what I want.

I struggle to get on board with the arken stuff, there's so much variance in the reviews. I'm clearly not against the, realistically, Chinese budget based on my first post, but I'd have to see a lot more good reviews in the arkens before I bite.
Spend 5 minutes reading all over this site.
 

st1650

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For 22lr you’d be pants on head retarded by not going with a Midas 5-25 and the Burris bushing rings.

I stayed with the 30mm tube 6-24 and I still get the full 25 mils which is enough for 450yards in winter without hold overs and that’s all I care about. Summer I can get there with 22.5 mils with Eley Tenex.

30-32 mils would get you to 500 yards no problems.
 

sam4886

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Spend 5 minutes reading all over this site.
As in there's a few very vocal arken fans and a ton of guys that don't trust the scope or the guys suggesting them?

Or as in quit asking questions that keep getting repeated?

For 22lr you’d be pants on head retarded by not going with a Midas 5-25 and the Burris bushing rings.

I stayed with the 30mm tube 6-24 and I still get the full 25 mils which is enough for 450yards in winter without hold overs and that’s all I care about. Summer I can get there with 22.5 mils with Eley Tenex.

30-32 mils would get you to 500 yards no problems.

I've got the Burris shim rings on a couple rifles now. I like them.

Anyone know if a 30 moa rail will keep me low enough in the revs to be on the first revolution? Or have an idea of where it will leave me at for a 50 yard zero? Obviously they're all a little different, but....
 

ECK

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I'm looking for a scope to stick on my new CZ 22. Area 419 30 moa rail should be here in a couple hours, so I think any low rings I want should clear just fine with a 50-56mm objective. Is that right?

I was primarily looking at the strike eagle but saw that once the zero stop is installed the travel is limited. Anyone have a strike eagle on a 30 moa rail sword at 50 yards? Does it even need a zero stop or will it be in the first revolution anyway?

I don’t have the SE but here is my experience using the Area 419 30MOA rail on a CZ455 with a USO 5-25x50mm.

When I mounted the scope on top of the 30MOA rail my 50 yd zero was 9 MILs from bottoming the scope out. That left me with about 14-ish MIls of ‘up’ to dial. Being in the winter that was barely enough to dial to 300 yds and I wanted more ‘up’ for some of the matches I was going to. So I switched to the 1” high Burris XTR Signature rings which gave me about 1/4” of clearance between the barrel and objective lens, and used the 20MOA ring inserts to get a total of 50MOA of cant.

Zero-ing at 50 yds, I was 2 MILs and change from bottoming out and had 22 MILs of up.

So to answer your questions, 1” high rings clear the CZ with a 50-56mm objective lens. I’ve since swapped scopes to a scope w/ a 56mm obj lens and 1” high rings was high enough to clear the barrel and still run a scope cap.

As far as your other question, if you just use a 30MOA rail you’ll have no problems zero-ing at 50 yds and based on my experience you’ll have about 1/3 of your scope’s elevation travel remaining. Figuring rough math of 6MILs per 20MOA, if you want to make more use of the scope’s elevation travel, get the Burris rings and increase your cant to 40 or 50MOA by adding a 10 or 20MOA ring insert.
 
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st1650

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As in there's a few very vocal arken fans and a ton of guys that don't trust the scope or the guys suggesting them?

Or as in quit asking questions that keep getting repeated?



I've got the Burris shim rings on a couple rifles now. I like them.

Anyone know if a 30 moa rail will keep me low enough in the revs to be on the first revolution? Or have an idea of where it will leave me at for a 50 yard zero? Obviously they're all a little different, but....
Some quick math for you if it helps.
My Midas 6-24 has 26 mils of total travel (1.0 mil more than advertised) with the zero stop removed.
Using a 30moa base and 0 moa mount I would zero it and have about 18.0 mils available and 8 mils not available below the zero.

With the bushing rings, I set it up to add an extra 8 mils / 25 MOA which then allows me to zero at 50m, have 25 mils available up and 1 mil available below zero stop
 
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sjmpcc022

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As in there's a few very vocal arken fans and a ton of guys that don't trust the scope or the guys suggesting them?

Or as in quit asking questions that keep getting repeated?
Allow me to clairify.................. there is a ton of info on Arken scopes all over this part of the forum. Read it all and make your own decision.

The reason many don't voice up on them is the "Chinese" factor. Yet, there are Vortex SE scopes mentioned all over this topic, many on here talk up Primary Arms or SWFA, or Athalon.

I just bought my second Arken scope and I think you would have a hard time matching the value. This one is going on my B14R, as I mentioned above. The first one is on a long barreled AR.

I'm not a commie, nor do I support their ideals, and I fully understand we are fighting them in our own government right now! Shame on you if you voted democrat!

Weed out the criticism of Arken scopes based on where they are made and focus on how they perform. Then you decide.

FYI.................. I had to deal with their CS( I mentioned that above) on a coupon code issue and they stood up big time!
 
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Bobcat86

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I’m fairly new to this, I have a CZ 457 MTR with an egw 30 moa rail adapter. I’m using a whole lot of elevation just to get in zeroed. Scope has 80 moa travel. I thought the whole idea was to give you more useful elevation. I zeroed at 50 yards and I don’t think I could get to 200 yards before running out. Can someone help me wrap my head around this please?
 

spife7980

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I’m fairly new to this, I have a CZ 457 MTR with an egw 30 moa rail adapter. I’m using a whole lot of elevation just to get in zeroed. Scope has 80 moa travel. I thought the whole idea was to give you more useful elevation. I zeroed at 50 yards and I don’t think I could get to 200 yards before running out. Can someone help me wrap my head around this please?
Not sure why you dumped the question in this thread but...

80moa total = 40 up and 40 down. 30moa of cant in the base shifts it so that you get 70 up and 10 down (40+30 and 40-30).

So theoretically you have 70 moa to work with. Where your rifle actually zeros at relative to the scopes internal range is a different thing altogether. Not only the rifles construction but the ballistics as well control how much elevation travel you actually have available to you beyond your zero.

So why dont you tell us what scope and how much actual available elevation travel you have once you are zeroed at 50.
 

Birddog6424

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    One of the great aspects of the Burris Signature rings is the ability to utilize all your scopes travel.

    Not much of an issue in the average centerfire, but very useful in a quality rimfire rifle.

    I zero my rimfire, and dial down to see how much travel I have left. Then adjust the shims to take up all but about 2 to 4 mils of it. I have 31 mils of elevation on my XTRIII 18x, 24mils on my 30x XTR Pro on my PRS Rimfire rifle, and 25 mils on my 300 Norma with an illuminated XTRIII 30x.

     

    spife7980

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    I agree on the burris signature with inserts. Couldnt figure out why a win52 had so little travel and poor image quality then I realized that the nightforce rail I put on it was -30 instead of +30. So I went to the rings to get me back into the center of the scopes travel when zeroed at 100 for the paper shooting discipline its used for.
     

    chevy_man

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    That sightron is like exactly the oposite of what I want.

    I struggle to get on board with the arken stuff, there's so much variance in the reviews. I'm clearly not against the, realistically, Chinese budget based on my first post, but I'd have to see a lot more good reviews in the arkens before I bite.

    The strike eagle is a Chinese scope.

    Sightron is Philippines or Japanese.
    Athlon is Chinese.
    Arken is Chinese.

    You need to do your own research. Nobody can tell you the perfect scope in your price range.
     

    Scopeye

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    For the $600-$800 budget your best bets currently are the Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30x56 (China) for as low as $745 at EV with LE/Military discount or if you qualify with your outdoorsy type job. The other option is the $799.99 DEMO SALE Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56 (Made in Europe NOT CHINA) at Scopelist and EuroOptic with free shipping. Maybe get it for even cheaper if you are LE/Military best to inquire when buying.

    Absolutely nothing coming from China sold by any other brand label can touch the Athlon Ares ETR.

    If you want to actually save money and buy a scope that's significantly better than the Vortex Strike Eagle, Element Titan and Bushnell Match Pro ED, the Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 currently on sale for $565.49 at Walmart online with free shipping and free returns within 90 days simply cannot be beat. Just search for this Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50 scope at Walmart online and see their $869.99 (normal typical selling price) option then click it to see the MOA model currently selling for $565.49. Amazon sometimes have them on sale too and it's actually THE Athlon company themselves selling through Amazon.

    If your other 50mm sunshade from your other scopes doesn't fit this scope, then buy the optional Athlon Midas/Ares BTR specific 50mm sunshade and a decent set of flip up scope lens covers and most importantly a set of 30mm Burris Signature XTR rings ($70-$80 search for best deals and free shipping). You will never need to worry about running out of elevation when using Burris Signature XTR rings which never require lapping and never ever leave a single mark or blemish on your scope tube. It will look as though the scope has never been mounted if you ever take them out of these utterly fantastic rings.

    Buy the Arken EP5 5-25x56 (Their best scope so far) for $397.49 current sale price only if budget constraints is stopping you from buying the other scopes I just mentioned. The glass is ok but not great. It's a very good budget scope when used as a 5-20x magnification scope. When you turn the magnification past 20x the image quality starts to go bad while the other previously mentioned scopes are fine all the way till their highest magnification settings. Quality control is a mixed bag with this brand just so you are aware.

    I would have suggested the new Bushnell Match Pro ED 5-30x56 but to me, it's junk in regards to mushy loose feeling turrets and it's sub par below average glass quality compared to the Athlons. Just go and look through one on high magnification at a distance you see the haze and milkiness it's like looking through fog. They must be using really crappy Chinese ED glass since the HD glass used in the Athlon seems to be a lot clearer without the milkiness or fog the Bushnell has. In fact the 6-24x50 Midas Tac looked a lot clearer as well and also without the fog and milkiness.
     

    Scopeye

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    My own eyes simply do not like Arken, in fact none of their models. I get eye strain and fatigue followed by headaches when looking through inferior glass for too long but maybe your eyes may not be sensitive to junk Chinese optics.

    I do not like looking through the Vortex Strike Eagle either specifically their 5-25x56.

    Element Optics Titan and especially the terrible Helix my eyes don't like either.

    There's a lot more but just too many to list.

    My eyes are sensitive to bad or low quality Chinese glass.

    Athlon Midas Tac and Ares BTR G2 seem fine and are both Chinese and I don't get any eye strain or fatigue when using them for long shooting sessions.

    Burris Signature HDs which are also Chinese, my eyes are totally fine with.

    I didn't own the Bushnell Match Pro ED long enough to even allow it to let it give me headaches. The glass was just plain awful and It was only slightly better than the Arkens which is really not saying much.
     

    Team RCBS & Bushnell

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  • Scopeye with the usual AI-like responses. Between all your Reddit accounts and your Youtube account and this one on Sniper's Hide where you post these comments verbatim, it's obvious you have an issue with Bushnell. Say what the deal is and what you'd like for a resolution - If you want one. PM me if you don't want it public.

    OP - This thread's from last year. I assume you've got your scope figured out already. If not, the Match Pro ED fits what you were after.
     

    Scopeye

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    Scopeye with the usual AI-like responses. Between all your Reddit accounts and your Youtube account and this one on Sniper's Hide where you post these comments verbatim, it's obvious you have an issue with Bushnell. Say what the deal is and what you'd like for a resolution - If you want one. PM me if you don't want it public.

    OP - This thread's from last year. I assume you've got your scope figured out already. If not, the Match Pro ED fits what you were after.
    Why aren't you guys trying to actually fix your BBB F rating? There's a lot of pissed of former Bushnell customers you guys screwed over who were not made right.
     

    Scopeye

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    Scopeye with the usual AI-like responses. Between all your Reddit accounts and your Youtube account and this one on Sniper's Hide where you post these comments verbatim, it's obvious you have an issue with Bushnell. Say what the deal is and what you'd like for a resolution - If you want one. PM me if you don't want it public.

    OP - This thread's from last year. I assume you've got your scope figured out already. If not, the Match Pro ED fits what you were after.
    You can blame your parent company Vista Outdoor who owns and manages Bushnell company too since even your parent company has an F rating by the BBB as well.

    Why the deceptive practices? Why does the Bushnell Match Pro ED and Match pri with illuminated reticle only have a limited one year electronics warranty for the illuminated reticles which isn't stated on your ironclad lifetime warranty?

    Why does some of your products state they have a two year warranty but they're one year for their electronics?

    Why do you in fact offer cheaper inferior lower quality items for warranty replacement on discontinued items when it's supposed to be at least equal to if not better than the actual item purchased? Why is there no warranty in cases such as discontinued models wjen cost of repair exceeded value of item and just leave the customer screwed over?

    Why are warranty items just returned/ sent back to your customers unrepaired with no detailed explanation?

    Why is it so difficult next to impossible to get a customer service rep on the phone when you really need them?

    Why label or claim the Bushnell Match Pro ED uses ED glass when Athlon Midas HD and above uses only HD glass and is clearer than Bushnell's ED glass?
     

    Team RCBS & Bushnell

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  • The Match Pro ED absolutely has ED glass. If your perception is some other optic is better that's your perception. Fact is, MPED has ED prime. The current warranty on electronics is 5 years, not 1 as you keep spreading. https://www.bushnell.com/bu-warranty.html Our CS gets busy at times, but they're here in Overland Park doing their best to keep up with all the brands they service under one roof. If anybody on here or Reddit ever has an issue they can always hit me up and I help get people in touch with them directly.
     

    Budrichard

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    I have the Athlon Optics Ares BTR GEN2 4.5-27x50 - APLR3 FFP IR MOA HD on my Ruger Competition 10/22.
    Nice scope purchased from CameraLand.
    But I fucked myself up by purchasing the new Zeiss S3 6-36 from CameraLand for a Ruger RPR I am now shooting at 200 yds.
    Bad decision because the difference is so much but so is the price.
    -Richard
     
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    Scopeye

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    The Match Pro ED absolutely has ED glass. If your perception is some other optic is better that's your perception. Fact is, MPED has ED prime. The current warranty on electronics is 5 years, not 1 as you keep spreading. https://www.bushnell.com/bu-warranty.html Our CS gets busy at times, but they're here in Overland Park doing their best to keep up with all the brands they service under one roof. If anybody on here or Reddit ever has an issue they can always hit me up and I help get people in touch with them directly.
    That is good to hear. Thank you.
     

    Scopeye

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    I have the Athlon Optics Ares BTR GEN2 4.5-27x50 - APLR3 FFP IR MOA HD on my Ruger Competition 10/22.
    Nice scope purchased from CameraLand.
    But I fucked myself up by purchasing the new Zeiss S3 6-36 from CameraLand for a Ruger RPR I am now shooting at 200 yds.
    Bad decision because the difference is so much but so is the price.
    -Richard
    Why do you feel like you F'd up? The Zeiss S3 6-36x at 4x the price should be a nicer better quality Japan made scope vs the Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x which are made in China.

    If it's based on the quantifiable justification of paying quadruple the price, I can understand that especially after comparing the Athlon Ares BTR G2 to the Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 and bought two more Ares scopes instead of another NF but I paid $700 for each (triple not quadruple) instead of the current $565.49 Walmart online price.

    Only thing I feel bad about is the made in China part and their current sale price. I sort of feel ripped off paying $700 for Chinese but at least they're good enough and better than the Midas Tac.
     

    cuz

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    One of the great aspects of the Burris Signature rings is the ability to utilize all your scopes travel.

    Not much of an issue in the average centerfire, but very useful in a quality rimfire rifle.

    I zero my rimfire, and dial down to see how much travel I have left. Then adjust the shims to take up all but about 2 to 4 mils of it. I have 31 mils of elevation on my XTRIII 18x, 24mils on my 30x XTR Pro on my PRS Rimfire rifle, and 25 mils on my 300 Norma with an illuminated XTRIII 30x.


    BirdDog,
    I like the idea of this, so I just ordered a set of the Signature XTR Rings for my scope. But, I'm not exactly sure how to do what you said you did. Any chance you can provide a bit more detail about the process?

    Thanks.
     
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    Team RCBS & Bushnell

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  • BirdDog,
    I like the idea of this, so I just ordered a set of the Signature XTR Rings for my scope. But, I'm not exactly sure how to do what you said you did. Any chance you can provide a bit more detail about the process?

    Thanks.
    This may be helpful. You can get pretty close to the amount you need to adjust the shims and/or base with some simple math. https://www.bushnell.com/bu-blog-precision-shooting/scopemountingfordistancetakinga22lr450yards.html I'm working on getting that range extended out. I'm hoping to get that rifle out to 500 at least, maybe 600 some day but I'll have to get those same rings on it to have any chance of that (and basically zero wind).
     

    spife7980

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    BirdDog,
    I like the idea of this, so I just ordered a set of the Signature XTR Rings for my scope. But, I'm not exactly sure how to do what you said you did. Any chance you can provide a bit more detail about the process?

    Thanks.
    To do? Set it up and shoot it.

    Once you have shot it then see how much elevation adjustment there is in your elevation turret under your 0.

    If you have 10 or 20 or however much moa below you can swap the inserts in and out to provide the additional cant into the scope mounting solution to convert what would have been downward travel into the upward travel side of things.
    1695396725585.png

    1695396883459.png


    So to recap: Set it up, shoot it to zero, reset it up with the most appropriate inserts to achieve max up travel and then shoot it again to verify.
     

    Birddog6424

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    To do? Set it up and shoot it.

    Once you have shot it then see how much elevation adjustment there is in your elevation turret under your 0.

    If you have 10 or 20 or however much moa below you can swap the inserts in and out to provide the additional cant into the scope mounting solution to convert what would have been downward travel into the upward travel side of things.
    View attachment 8233037
    View attachment 8233039

    So to recap: Set it up, shoot it to zero, reset it up with the most appropriate inserts to achieve max up travel and then shoot it again to verify.

    Excellent post.
     

    Emerson0311

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    Keep in mind the amount of MOA that the shims actually adjust your scope depends on the spacing of the rings. I’ve used several sets of these rings. Now, on my match rifle, I run an Athlon Ares with a proper zero stop and a 50MOA rail. With a cheaper scope and crappy zero stop that would use up a lot of elevation, the XTR rings allowed me to zero less than 1 turn from the bottom of the elevation travel. The rings are not cheap though. I also found they seemed to move a bit in a centerfire boomer.
     

    Birddog6424

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    Keep in mind the amount of MOA that the shims actually adjust your scope depends on the spacing of the rings. I’ve used several sets of these rings. Now, on my match rifle, I run an Athlon Ares with a proper zero stop and a 50MOA rail. With a cheaper scope and crappy zero stop that would use up a lot of elevation, the XTR rings allowed me to zero less than 1 turn from the bottom of the elevation travel. The rings are not cheap though. I also found they seemed to move a bit in a centerfire boomer.

    Reef them baby's down!! 🤣

    Kidding of course. I know a lot of ELR guys that swear by them. I use them on my 300 Norma, a 338 Lapua, and a Steyr 50 cal at 22inlbs. Never had a creep..

    I use them anywhere from 20 to 22inlbs on the rings, 50inlbs on the base.
     

    carbonbased

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    Re: XTR Signature rings (or any Signature rings)

    One thing to be be a little careful about when tightening the ring caps on Signature rings is don’t keep going back over and over and over the bolts with the torque wrench waiting for the bolts to stop tightening.

    The bolts on regular rings will usually stop moving after one or two “re-tightenings.”

    But the Signatures, well, sometimes it seemed like I could go over and over those bolts ad infinitum as the bolt kept on getting a little bit tighter at each torque wrench pass. Not sure if it has to do with the scope texture, humidity, the design of the rings, or some other voodoo.

    Edit to add: the scope, ring interiors, and ring inserts had been degreased.

    I have read others complain about that too. I always checked myself and stopped tightening before the scope tube was crushed. I’d do two passes, maybe three max (if the bolts were really loose), and stop.

    But as a first timer with the rings, the urge to “do it perfectly correct” can take over.

    Be safe out there in scope-land.
     
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    ocabj

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    Why aren't you guys trying to actually fix your BBB F rating? There's a lot of pissed of former Bushnell customers you guys screwed over who were not made right.
    Every other day with the BBB rating and Bushnell posts.

    I have no skin in the game here, but anytime someone brings up BBB, I cringe worse than I do reading bad Yelp reviews.

    However, if you want to know how a company fixes BBB rating: Only focus on complaints filed with the BBB and give the BBB money to be 'accredited'.

    I'd rather trust a crowdsourced rating system because at least, statistically it will balance it out with wider sampling. Granted, we all know how viral campaigns can tank any crowdsourced rating, even when unwarranted.
     

    Scopeye

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    Every other day with the BBB rating and Bushnell posts.

    I have no skin in the game here, but anytime someone brings up BBB, I cringe worse than I do reading bad Yelp reviews.

    However, if you want to know how a company fixes BBB rating: Only focus on complaints filed with the BBB and give the BBB money to be 'accredited'.

    I'd rather trust a crowdsourced rating system because at least, statistically it will balance it out with wider sampling. Granted, we all know how viral campaigns can tank any crowdsourced rating, even when unwarranted.
    If that's the case why do so many other unaccredited scope companies who didn't pay the BBB still got an A+ rating?
     

    Scopeye

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    Every other day with the BBB rating and Bushnell posts.

    I have no skin in the game here, but anytime someone brings up BBB, I cringe worse than I do reading bad Yelp reviews.

    However, if you want to know how a company fixes BBB rating: Only focus on complaints filed with the BBB and give the BBB money to be 'accredited'.

    I'd rather trust a crowdsourced rating system because at least, statistically it will balance it out with wider sampling. Granted, we all know how viral campaigns can tank any crowdsourced rating, even when unwarranted.
    I just rechecked Bushnell Outdoors BBB and noticed Bushnell Outdoors managed to somehow delete all of their negative reviews. I thought it wasn't possible for a business to delete all of their own negative customers' reviews when there were in fact three whole pages of negative reviews from disgruntled Bushnell Outdoors customers. I really wonder how much they had to pay off or bribe an employee working at the BBB to get that incredibly impossible feat done?

    There were in fact three whole pages of Bushnell Outdoors complaints that just recently mysteriously disappeared.

    Some disgruntled customers even stated HOW DARE YOU BUSHNELL for closing their claims and ignoring them after that and some others even called the company out over their deceptive warranty practices after getting screwed over by Bushnell Outdoors.

    The Bushnell Outdoors BBB somehow has an error message now and need to manually type in Bushnell Outdoor on the BBB website but still have their three pages of complaints disappeared.

    Now Google searches it mysteriously has a Canada Bushnell BBB website with an A+ rating VEEEEEEERY... INTERESTING...INDEED!!!
     
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    Scopeye

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    Every other day with the BBB rating and Bushnell posts.

    I have no skin in the game here, but anytime someone brings up BBB, I cringe worse than I do reading bad Yelp reviews.

    However, if you want to know how a company fixes BBB rating: Only focus on complaints filed with the BBB and give the BBB money to be 'accredited'.

    I'd rather trust a crowdsourced rating system because at least, statistically it will balance it out with wider sampling. Granted, we all know how viral campaigns can tank any crowdsourced rating, even when unwarranted.
    Feel free to search other well known popular scope brands on the BBB and you will find that in fact, the majority who didn't pay or give them money to get accredited currently have an A+ rating. Including several which have actual customer complaints posted that the company quickly resolved and made it right for their customers.

    Vortex, Leupold, Burris, Sightron, Athlon just to name a few all have A+ BBB ratings. A+ is their "highest" possible rating while F is their "lowest" possible rating BTW...

    It appears as though Bushnell sort of tried to fix all their their negative BBB complaints in fact literally three whole pages worth by SOMEHOW having the BBB delete them all. Then SOMEHOW make it difficult to even search Google "Bushnell BBB" since it then leads you to a error message then a broken link "page not found".

    I didn't say to HIDE ALL OF BUSHNELL OUTDOOR BBB COMPLAINTS, I SAID FIX IT MEANING TAKE CARE OF ALL YOUR DISGRUNTLED CUSTOMERS WHO STILL FEEL SCREWED OVER AMD GOTTEN RIPPED OFF.

    Are you also able to delete all of the 100% negative (There are ZERO POSITIVE REVIEWS BTW) "Bushnell Outdoor Products" reviews on YELP as well?

    How about this one can they silence their negative reviews here as well?
    Bushnell Outdoor Products


    "Bushnell customer service complaints, reviews, ratings and comments" https://www.customerservicescoreboard.com/Bushnell
    What's very disturbing is based on these negative reviews, they don't seem to actually want to honor their limited one year or 2 year or even 5 year electronics warranty in fact there's complaints from disgruntled customers of product failures which occurred in less than one year and Bushnell refused to honor their warranty.

    "Bushnell Customer Service Complaints - page 2" https://www.customerservicescoreboard.com/Bushnell/negative/?page=2

    Here's what pissed consumers have to say... 5 pages or so of pissed off customer complaints. Not honoring their 2 year electronics warranty stating it was a misprint??? Saying just about anything to weasel out of honoring their own printed warranty???

    "Bushnell Reviews | bushnell.com @ PissedConsumer" https://bushnell.pissedconsumer.com/review.html#reviews

    Hey might as well try to delete ALL evidence of Bushnell customer complaints while you're at it why don't you?
     
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    Scopeye

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    Scopeye with the usual AI-like responses. Between all your Reddit accounts and your Youtube account and this one on Sniper's Hide where you post these comments verbatim, it's obvious you have an issue with Bushnell. Say what the deal is and what you'd like for a resolution - If you want one. PM me if you don't want it public.

    OP - This thread's from last year. I assume you've got your scope figured out already. If not, the Match Pro ED fits what you were after.
    Humble apologies for the mixup in regards to the one year limited electronics illuminated reticle in Bushnell scopes and hunting rangefinders and so on. This article which was posted earlier this year most certainly needs detailed clarification.

    WHICH SPECIFIC SCOPES and red dot sights with illuminated reticles or dots fall under the Bushnells limited one year electronics warranty and what specific rangefinders etc also falls under the one year warranty? Matter of fact please list specific items according to the one year limited warranty so there's zero confusion going forward thank you.

    See Bushnells limited one year warranty.

    "Bushnell Warranty Information | Scopes Reviews" https://scopesreviews.com/bushnell-warranty-information/

    If you can somehow manage to successfully delete this one on Google search too as you may have done with BBB then it will offer more clarification to their actual warranty and not make people mistakenly think Bushnells only have a one year limited warranty and may in fact perhaps have two or maybe even five years of warranty on their electronics?

    "Bushnell Warranty Information | Scopes Reviews" https://scopesreviews.com/bushnell-warranty-information/

    Another question regarding the Bushnell Match Pro with illuminated reticles and the Match Pro ED illuminated reticle which you stated have a 5 year limited warranty (thanks for the correction BTW) for their electronics/illuminated reticles, does it cover the second or third owner of those scopes were sold to other people amdhow do you know exactly how long is the 5 years warranty going to be for if you don't have the original receipt? Either purchased the illuminated MP or MPED second or third hand or if the original owner lost the receipt purchased through second party dealers?

    Is the 5 year warranty going to be just like SIG which has date of birth serial number which warranty starts ticking away the minute it's off the assembly line in China? Or is it from actual date of purchase? In other words does the 5 year warranty start to get used up if they've been sitting in a warehouse for a while before they were actually purchased. Hypothetically speaking. Reason for this question = Bushnell Ironclad warranty stares no receipt required so how do you know when the 5 years warranty is already expired? Do you plan on doing any in house repairs for out of warranty electronics? Or are they disposable throw away Bushnell branded items just like SIG that need to be purchased all over again after they fail past their limited warranty periods?
     
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    cuz

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    A price bump, but the XTRIII can be had at Cameraland for $999. It checks all the boxes, has a solid reputation, and is a phenomenal value at that price.

    Where is the XTR III made? Is it Japanese, Chinese, or something else?
    I'm shopping for a 3-18'ish scope for my Begara BXR semi-auto and am trying to decide between the XTR III and the Athlon Ares ETR UHD. They seem pretty close by spec comparison. I know the Ares ETR is made in China, but not sure about the Burris.
     

    cuz

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    To do? Set it up and shoot it.

    Once you have shot it then see how much elevation adjustment there is in your elevation turret under your 0.

    If you have 10 or 20 or however much moa below you can swap the inserts in and out to provide the additional cant into the scope mounting solution to convert what would have been downward travel into the upward travel side of things.
    View attachment 8233037
    View attachment 8233039

    So to recap: Set it up, shoot it to zero, reset it up with the most appropriate inserts to achieve max up travel and then shoot it again to verify.

    Thanks!
    I got the 1" high rings in yesterday, and there is plenty of clearance with my 56mm scope.
    I have a 20 moa rail on my B-14R, and I took a guess and put the 0 moa inserts in the rear ring, and in the front ring, I put the -10 in the bottom and the +10 on top. So I "think" that gives me an extra 10 moa of cant.

    I sighted it in today at 25 yards, and after getting it zeroed, I am exactly 3.0 mils from the bottom, which gives me 29 mils of elevation.
    I realize I need to bump my zero out to 50 yards, and I'll do that, which I think adds another 0.5 mils to the bottom.

    My question is whether or not I should be trying to get closer to the bottom, or is 3.5 mils about where I want to be?
    Thanks.
     

    Rob01

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    Where is the XTR III made? Is it Japanese, Chinese, or something else?
    I'm shopping for a 3-18'ish scope for my Begara BXR semi-auto and am trying to decide between the XTR III and the Athlon Ares ETR UHD. They seem pretty close by spec comparison. I know the Ares ETR is made in China, but not sure about the Burris.

    The XTR III is made in the Philippines now.
     
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    Mxridr

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    Any problems with xtr 3? These look like great scopes. I can get a great deal on one
     

    Rob01

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    Any problems with xtr 3? These look like great scopes. I can get a great deal on one
    Nope. They are good optics. Great FOV and good eye box and the SCR2 is a very good reticle.
     
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    cuz

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    They are made to be matching pairs. Though I guess if what you have is holding then maybe it’s fine.
    View attachment 8239833
    I see no reason to chase three mils
    I thought that was exactly what I did???
    I have the +10 with the -10 in front and the 0 with 0 in the rear.

    I seems the Ballistic AE app is way off, and led me to believe that the 29 mil of adjustment would only reach out to 120 yards. I wanted to get to 200. But I just checked the GeoBallistics app and 29 mils gets me out to 400+ yards which is more than I’ll ever need.
     

    spife7980

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    I thought that was exactly what I did???
    I have the +10 with the -10 in front and the 0 with 0 in the rear.

    I seems the Ballistic AE app is way off, and led me to believe that the 29 mil of adjustment would only reach out to 120 yards. I wanted to get to 200. But I just checked the GeoBallistics app and 29 mils gets me out to 400+ yards which is more than I’ll ever need.
    Crap, I guess I read it all wrong before. Sorry for the confusion
     

    carbonbased

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    I took a guess and put the 0 moa inserts in the rear ring, and in the front ring, I put the -10 in the bottom and the +10 on top. So I "think" that gives me an extra 10 moa of cant.
    So, I’ve reread the manual on these rings as it’s been a while since I used them (I prefer the Arc M10/Mbrace rings).

    The way you did it is ok. But what you may have not taken into consideration is that the distance between the rings has an effect on the angle and thus the MOA number too. @spife7980 gave you this chart some ways above but here is it for your convenience. Pardon if you’ve figured all of this out already.

    I found and attached the signature rings manual too, in case you don’t have it. I feel your pain, I used to get confused each time I set up the rings/scope.

    1696217339552.png
     

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