Suppressors rookie handgun user with a question...

[mparker88]

I have a question on accuracy using handguns.

For a rifles accuracy I'll shoot a 5 shot group at 100yrds and measure the group size. 100yrds to me seems like the standard range to see the rifles ability( 1moa, .5moa, .25moa...) So when I hear about a rifle that shoots .5moa I have an idea of the accuracy of that rifle.

For handguns I have no idea what range is used to base its accuracy on. Is there a standard range used? What is considered a good group size at that range? I understand the smaller the group the better but to have an idea of a realistic group size at a specific range would be helpful.

For example lets say I shoot a 5 shot group that measures 5" at 15yrds. To me that seems pretty good but idk what the gun is capable of. Idk if its unrealistc to think the gun is capable of 1" groups at that range or would a 3" group be a realistic number.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

Most group shooting with handguns are done at 25yds. Good accuracy for a service pistol is <3" at 25yds. Competition pistols can group under 2" at 25yds and most National Match pistols will push <2" groups at 50yds.

Keep in mind this is for full size pistols fired from a rest. Compact handguns will have significantly larger groups depending on just how short the barrel is.

More and more lately I've seen some of the gun rags using a 15yd standard for grouping. I think this is due to some of them having a vested interest to their advertisers that pay the bills, so to make them look better they show smaller group sizes and hope the reader doesn't look at the fine print of the firing distance.

 

[Lindy]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

Another thing to consider is that most people are not bullseye competitors, but people who have a pistol for defensive purposes.

For defensive purposes, pistol accuracy is mostly irrelevant, as most defensive pistol applications occur at very close ranges, and the shooter is not trying to hit a small target.

 

[jbgleason]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

+1 to that last comment. I never worry about "groups" with a pistol. To me, when talking handguns, it is more important what the pistol can do given the design/sights/trigger/etc at realistic combat distances. It is truly irrelevant what it can do from a rest unless it is a benchrest pistol. Shoot the handgun from standing, sitting, prone, one hand, two hands, off-hand, etc and see if it is hitting the target. If you can do that, then you have a pistol that fits you and is accurate enough for its intended purpose. That being said, if it is all over the place then it is time to bench it and determine if the problem is the gun or the shooter. If it is the gun, get it fixed or get rid of it. If it is the shooter, well, training and practice are in order. Good luck.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

A lot of perceived accuracy with a handgun has to do with your experiential level, both personally, and with the platform. Moreover, it's a matter of two vs. one-handed, weak vs. strong, SA vs. DA, supported vs. unsupported, etc.

The truest baseline for the <span style="font-style: italic">handgun's</span> accuracy is to stick it in a Ransom Rest, which is outside the scope of 99% of us. For practical purposes, find a way to support yourself while shooting in a single action mode, if the weapon permits, so that you eliminate wavering from the breathing cycle and arm motion as much as possible. That should give you a reasonable idea of what the handgun is capable of in a best-case scenario, with no distractions; with some handguns you can make one ragged hole all day long.

However, practical shooting with an eye towards self-defense is more demanding and introduces factors that will increase the size of your groups at a given distance. Lindy's bullseye comment above is spot-on; it's unrealistic to expect that one ragged hole in combat-type shooting. Think more along the lines of mastering the basics of breathing, sight picture, balance, stance, etc. and keeping everything at ten or fifteen yards on a blank sheet of standard typewriter paper. Don't worry about speed. Worry about smooth and steady at first and keeping the front sight in sharp focus and over the target. As you spend more time at this and pick up skills, you should find the groups getting smaller, to the point where, once you've moved to a bull as a focusing point, the back of your fist should cover everything at a point around seven to ten yards out or so. One thing to keep in mind about armed encounters with a handgun is the rule of 3s: three yards, three seconds, three rounds.

 

[mparker88]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

Thanks for the help. I understand a hit is a hit when it comes to self defense so I was mostly wondering about target shooting/group sizes.

 

[CavalrySoldier3ACR]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

I would agree that with a defensive weapon, like a handgun, any hit is better than none, but I still think accuracy is important. A well placed shot can mean the difference between stopping the threat with one shot or needing multiple shots to acheive the same effect. I am not so much interested in bench rest accuracy for a pistol as I am with individual training with that weapon so that I can hit critical points on an assailant as quickly as possible using various supported and unsupported positions. Weak hand training on the same is also critical. A smooth draw from a concealed carry is part of the regiment also. Fifteen yards really is, in my opinion, the outside of your typical hangun battle range, especially if you are using a compact pistol.

 

[Downzero]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

I think mechanical accuracy of a pistol is absolutely worthless, so long as you first verify that it will shoot 6" or less at 25 yards.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mparker88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... I was mostly wondering about target shooting/group sizes.</div></div>

A "target pistol" should be more accurate than you are, for one, but that amount of inherent accuracy in a pistol is a function of its caliber and design. .22 LR pistols such as are used in competitive shooting at the highest levels of precision are capable of incredible accuracy. Check out the test target on this page: http://www.prc68.com/I/Hammerli150.shtml

Here's an example of what one might turn out with a "non target" handgun:

YMMV, of course, but in theory you should get to the point where you can stay in the black. I was off with the first DA shot and then shot the other five SA, purposefully off the bull, for group.

Check out the rapid-fire 25M event. The hits show up on the target graphic:

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[kentactic]

Re: rookie handgun user with a question...

bassically every modern pistol you put in your hands will shoot better then you can... so you will only be measuring your own abilitys and not that of the pistol. with that said if you make one hole at 25 yards with a full mag your doing fine.

but if your able to hit center mass every shot at any range you plan to shoot a bad guy then your doing fine aswell.

this guy will explain it better then me.

Pistol Accuracy Video