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Rotational drift and 22 lr

A

Aquatic_Robotic

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 7, 2011
560
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71
East Texas
Talked with a guy today who has been a long time LR shooter. Mostly shoots Sharps out to 600 meters off "sticks" with open sights. The man can shoot!!

He is wealth of knowledge, but he spoke of "rotational" drift today and I am not sure how this effects 22 lr rounds down range. He was telling me that rotationsl drift could create a need for windage adjustments even when there is no wind. The further the distance the more rotation drift is imparted on the bullet.

Theory or fact??

I understand the concept, but not sure how much it affects the 22 lr round. I did notice that I had to correct my scope 1 MOA left when changing zero from 50 to 100 yards. Could this be the cause?

Maybe I called this phenomenon by the wrong name, but can someone please educate me??

Thanks
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aquatic_Robotic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Theory or fact??</div></div>

Fact, your friend is 100% correct.
W/O starting another shit storm, I'd suggest you PM a guy here that sign's on as DTubb an ask him. Yes, he is from Texas and it's the same guy you may know as David Tubb.

As far as the 22lr goes I don't start to see it until 100yds plus but it is there.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Honestly, as much as a strict interpretation would insist the .22LR and spindrift can probably be mentioned in the same sentence; I'd hesitate to assign the issue a high priority.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

I have heard of guys offsetting this problem by adjusting their zero about 1/8". Not sure if this applies to the rimfire world or not.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Well there you go. I guess that is why I flubbed "The Gauntlet" at the 22 Tactical Steel Challenge last Saturday, and I didn't have any Spin-D in my cooler.
Seriously are we gonna start this excrement up in the rimfire section now? Do we really need onother thread dedicated to this?
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well there you go. I guess that is why I flubbed "The Gauntlet" at the 22 Tactical Steel Challenge last Saturday, and I didn't have any Spin-D in my cooler.
Seriously are we gonna start this excrement up in the rimfire section now? Do we really need onother thread dedicated to this? </div></div>
Yes we do...
laugh.gif
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Sitting here with T.O. eating some Orville Redenbacher Movie Theater Butter!
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Ok I see I've opened a topic that has apparently been thoroughly thrashed out here already. Maybe if I had searched"spin" drift in place of "rotational" drift I would have found the information I was seeking.

Thanks to you that responded with positive input.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

^^ LOL! Don't take it hard AB! Its tough to search something when you aren't up on all the specialized jargon. Just make sure NOT to bring up Counter Sniper scopes!! LMAO!!! (IF you want to see some funny stuff, do a search for that!)

Bottom line, don't sweat spin drift with a rimfire. If you start shooting extended ranges with a centerfire, you'll figure it out then.

Keep learning! None of us are experts!

~ Rico
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

No one has their panties in a wad here AR. No one is saying spin drift doesn't exist. Whether it exists enough to make a difference in a 22 under 250yds in my opinion is highly doubtful. It is also very hard for me to prove or disprove its effect as there are too many variables present on the range from day to day for me to say that 1/2 minute left I put in is due to spin drift.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Boy! This .22 shootin' stuff sure has gotten complicated since I was a kid. Back then, all I needed was a rifle, a couple boxes of whatever ammo they were selling down at the feed store & something to shoot at.
Now days, I gotta' go through all kinds of mumbo-jumbo just to be somewhat assured that the damn bullet will even come out the muzzle!
smile.gif
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr



Coriolis and Spin Drift are not the same thing at all.

Coriolis is caused by the earth's rotation.

Spin drift is caused by the rotation of the bullet.

 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Can anyone give a figure on the spin drift of the bullet on a 22lr at say 250yds? If this number is substantial I want to know. Anyone? Anyone?
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Is there even any spin at that point? Can someone dig up the ballistics chart for a .22 at 200-250? At 100 yards the projectile is already under 900 FPS... at 200 is it under 600 FPS?
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

IMO it wouldn't be substantial enough to make any real calculations. i'd be more worried about canting the rifle or cosine.

sure the 22lr spins, but when you think of using standard, match or subsonic velocity ammo, plus the fact that most "standard" factory barrels are only 1:16 twist, you have to ask yourself this:

is the relatively slow velocity and slow spin rate REALLY going to effect / distort the bullet path enough to even worry about it, even past 150 yards?

yes it exists on a rimfire, just like a centerfire, but enough to compensate for, i really doubt it.

i might consider it in a .17 hmr at 300 ish yards or more, but that would be about it, and probably wouldn't even worry about it in that case either.

i know you may be thinking "what about high or hyper velocity .22s", generally the faster speeds destabilize the bullet enough when it hits the transonic barrier that it'll veer off more due to that than spin drift.

there are a whole bunch more things effecting a .22lr's bullet path than spin drift i wouoldn't give it a second thought.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

If you had to make that big an adjustment from 50 to 100 yards then it's in your scope setup not the ammo drifing off.

I've not found it makes any difference out to 300 yard but by then I've not found a 22 ammo brand that is accurate enough to know when it's being affected by spin drift.

Topstrap
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RicosRevenge</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there even any spin at that point? Can someone dig up the ballistics chart for a .22 at 200-250? At 100 yards the projectile is already under 900 FPS... at 200 is it under 600 FPS? </div></div>
Believe it or not at 250 it is still clocking 794fps. Now this is a cheap free ballistics calculator nothing fancy but I use it all the time and it is pretty well spot on for all my real world data. I used the Wolf ammo at 75degF, no wind, .140BC, 1050fps muzzle.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

TP you answered some questions I had for sure. I was also thinking that 1-16 twist and that short bullet did not make for good gyroscopic drift. I don't believe it makes a difference but I was curious whether there were some real world numbers out there. I am not trying to stir this up just curious.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

LMAO!!! You and I were on the same page then... I was not beleiving my calcualations! I was thinking, "There ain't no freakin' way it is still going even that fast."

~ Rico

PS... it still freaks me out when I think that my pellet gun has a higher muzzle velocity than my .22LR! LOL!
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

curiosity is good, it leads to questions, questions lead to paths not taken before, and then eventually discovery. i don't think your stirring anything up and at the very least a good topic to propose.

although it has been beaten to death on SH and elsewhere, there's not much talk of it when it comes to rimfires, and IMO a valid one to throw out there in a rimfire forum for at least some speculation. it probably wasn't really discussed 'cause of the low velocity / barrel twist thing hampering the bullet from being spit out "extremely" enough to have spin drift looked at or considered to even be a factor.

my break is over, gotta go back to remodeling the bathroom!
frown.gif
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VA Gentleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow.. so what happens at the North Pole?</div></div>

what happens at the north pole between an elf and a penguin stays at the north pole.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer: Lapua Description: Long Rifle Master Solid
Caliber: 0.223 in Weight: 40.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.132 G1

Muzzle Velocity: 1066.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 10.0 ft

Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Height: 12.0 in

Temperature: 75.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 30.0 % Altitude: 2500.0 ft

Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: No Include Extra Rows: No
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 10.479 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.06748 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1133.6 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 133 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 113 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 62 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 72.4 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.115 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 1071.9 0.946 102.0 0.000 0.0 ***
5 -1.0 -18.9 0.0 0.2 1063.1 0.938 100.4 0.014 2.5 47.2
10 -0.6 -5.3 0.0 0.4 1054.5 0.930 98.8 0.028 5.0 47.4
15 -0.2 -1.3 0.1 0.6 1046.3 0.923 97.2 0.043 7.5 47.6
20 0.1 0.4 0.2 0.8 1038.3 0.916 95.7 0.057 10.0 47.8
25 0.3 1.0 0.3 1.0 1030.5 0.909 94.3 0.071 12.6 48.0
30 0.4 1.2 0.4 1.1 1023.1 0.903 92.9 0.086 15.1 48.2
35 0.4 1.1 0.5 1.3 1015.8 0.896 91.6 0.101 17.7 48.4
40 0.4 0.9 0.6 1.5 1008.7 0.890 90.4 0.116 20.3 48.5
45 0.2 0.5 0.8 1.7 1001.8 0.884 89.1 0.130 23.0 48.7
50 -0.0 -0.0 1.0 1.9 995.2 0.878 87.9 0.145 25.6 48.9
55 -0.3 -0.5 1.2 2.0 988.7 0.872 86.8 0.161 28.3 49.1
60 -0.7 -1.1 1.4 2.2 982.3 0.867 85.7 0.176 30.9 49.3
65 -1.2 -1.8 1.6 2.4 976.1 0.861 84.6 0.191 33.6 49.4
70 -1.8 -2.4 1.9 2.6 970.0 0.856 83.6 0.207 36.4 49.6
75 -2.5 -3.1 2.1 2.7 964.1 0.851 82.5 0.222 39.1 49.8
80 -3.2 -3.9 2.4 2.9 958.3 0.845 81.6 0.238 41.8 49.9
85 -4.1 -4.6 2.7 3.1 952.6 0.840 80.6 0.253 44.6 50.1
90 -5.1 -5.4 3.0 3.2 947.0 0.835 79.6 0.269 47.4 50.3
95 -6.1 -6.1 3.4 3.4 941.6 0.831 78.7 0.285 50.2 50.4
100 -7.3 -6.9 3.7 3.6 936.2 0.826 77.8 0.301 53.0 50.6
105 -8.5 -7.7 4.1 3.7 931.0 0.821 77.0 0.317 55.8 50.8
110 -9.9 -8.6 4.5 3.9 925.8 0.817 76.1 0.333 58.7 50.9
115 -11.3 -9.4 4.9 4.0 920.7 0.812 75.3 0.350 61.5 51.1
120 -12.9 -10.3 5.3 4.2 915.7 0.808 74.5 0.366 64.4 51.2
125 -14.5 -11.1 5.7 4.4 910.8 0.803 73.7 0.382 67.3 51.4
130 -16.3 -12.0 6.2 4.5 905.9 0.799 72.9 0.399 70.2 51.6
135 -18.2 -12.9 6.6 4.7 901.1 0.795 72.1 0.415 73.1 51.7
140 -20.2 -13.8 7.1 4.8 896.4 0.791 71.4 0.432 76.0 51.9
145 -22.2 -14.7 7.6 5.0 891.8 0.787 70.6 0.449 79.0 52.0
150 -24.4 -15.6 8.1 5.1 887.2 0.783 69.9 0.466 82.0 52.2
155 -26.7 -16.5 8.6 5.3 882.7 0.779 69.2 0.483 84.9 52.3
160 -29.2 -17.4 9.1 5.5 878.2 0.775 68.5 0.500 87.9 52.5
165 -31.7 -18.3 9.7 5.6 873.8 0.771 67.8 0.517 91.0 52.6
170 -34.3 -19.3 10.3 5.8 869.5 0.767 67.1 0.534 94.0 52.8
175 -37.1 -20.2 10.8 5.9 865.2 0.763 66.5 0.551 97.0 53.0
180 -40.0 -21.2 11.4 6.1 860.9 0.759 65.8 0.569 100.1 53.1
185 -43.0 -22.2 12.0 6.2 856.7 0.756 65.2 0.586 103.2 53.3
190 -46.1 -23.2 12.7 6.4 852.5 0.752 64.5 0.604 106.3 53.4
195 -49.3 -24.1 13.3 6.5 848.4 0.748 63.9 0.621 109.4 53.6
200 -52.7 -25.1 14.0 6.7 844.4 0.745 63.3 0.639 112.5 53.7
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Spin drift occurs only in a horizontal plane,and generally has lass effect than wind deflection. since spin drift is a deterministic variable, it is more predictable than wind deflection. For example, wind deflection might be between 5-10' for two consecutive long range shots, but spin drift will always be the same for a given bullet/velocity/spin rate at that range.

Since spin drift is such a subtle effect compared to wind deflection, it would be extremely difficult to measure it experimentally. you would need absolute calm conditions, an extremely precise rifle, perfectly leveled and repeatable sights in order to measure it with any kind of certainty.

Bottom line.....Don't worry about this and concentrate on your wind reading ability/skills.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spin drift occurs only in a horizontal plane,and generally has lass effect than wind deflection. since spin drift is a deterministic variable, it is more predictable than wind deflection. For example, wind deflection might be between 5-10' for two consecutive long range shots, but spin drift will always be the same for a given bullet/velocity/spin rate at that range.

Since spin drift is such a subtle effect compared to wind deflection, it would be extremely difficult to measure it experimentally. you would need absolute calm conditions, an extremely precise rifle, perfectly leveled and repeatable sights in order to measure it with any kind of certainty.

Bottom line.....Don't worry about this and concentrate on your wind reading ability/skills. </div></div>

Thanks Shooter for the charts and video. I agree with all you have said and I am of the same opinion I just wanted to know if I was completely off base or wrong. So basically until I can read winds at 250 down to 1 MPH and the exact angle of said wind then I can completely forget that spin drift exists. That is my take on the subject and has been since the get-go. I just wondered if the actual numbers existed to prove how insignificant gyroscopic drift is to the 250yd 22lr shooter. I can only assume as the range increases that the effects are more pronounced but then so are all the other external factors. Again, I know it exists but if knowing everything about it, can yield nothing useful beyond a spirited arguement, then I say who cares, now lets go do some shooting!
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Yes sir. Forget about spin drift. The wind is our enemy!



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spin drift occurs only in a horizontal plane,and generally has lass effect than wind deflection. since spin drift is a deterministic variable, it is more predictable than wind deflection. For example, wind deflection might be between 5-10' for two consecutive long range shots, but spin drift will always be the same for a given bullet/velocity/spin rate at that range.

Since spin drift is such a subtle effect compared to wind deflection, it would be extremely difficult to measure it experimentally. you would need absolute calm conditions, an extremely precise rifle, perfectly leveled and repeatable sights in order to measure it with any kind of certainty.

Bottom line.....Don't worry about this and concentrate on your wind reading ability/skills. </div></div>

Thanks Shooter for the charts and video. I agree with all you have said and I am of the same opinion I just wanted to know if I was completely off base or wrong. So basically until I can read winds at 250 down to 1 MPH and the exact angle of said wind then I can completely forget that spin drift exists. That is my take on the subject and has been since the get-go. I just wondered if the actual numbers existed to prove how insignificant gyroscopic drift is to the 250yd 22lr shooter. I can only assume as the range increases that the effects are more pronounced but then so are all the other external factors. Again, I know it exists but if knowing everything about it, can yield nothing useful beyond a spirited arguement, then I say who cares, now lets go do some shooting! </div></div>
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Ok, so I am way late on the topic but I was doing some reading and found this topic and tnought I could shed some light on the situation. I am only 23yrs old and have practiced with my .22lr more than any gun I know. And if there is one thing I know about it is how it shoots. I sight it in for 20yds but take shots out to 100 yds. At that distance my bullets drift over 3" to the right. Now this may throw the people who shoot long range off a bit but here is why.

Although the spin on a .22lr bullet is low and so is the distance the B.C. is so much lower that you will find that a .22lr bullet at 100yds has similar flight paterns to a .308 at 400yds. I shoot super sonic bullets out of my rifle that don't hit the trans-sonic barrier until about 250yds but at that distance u better have some good equations to account for the "spin drift".

Now I don't want to start any fights on my first post so I will redirect you to a tv show. Recently on Top Shot one of the conestents shot a golf ball at 100yds with a .22lr and the other 2 ppl weren't even close. That is because he knew what the bullet would do out at that distance. I shoot spent 12gauge shells with my 22lr at 100yds all the time for fun. You should try it some time. Alot of fun.

Fyi an air gun at 100yds is even wors with spin drift.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

How the F*** have I not seen this thread before????

I guess it's a good thing... truth has been covered well enough without my .02 so I'll leave it be.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bullbarrel78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I am way late on the topic but I was doing some reading and found this topic and tnought I could shed some light on the situation. I am only 23yrs old and have practiced with my .22lr more than any gun I know. And if there is one thing I know about it is how it shoots. I sight it in for 20yds but take shots out to 100 yds. At that distance my bullets drift over 3" to the right. Now this may throw the people who shoot long range off a bit but here is why.

Although the spin on a .22lr bullet is low and so is the distance the B.C. is so much lower that you will find that a .22lr bullet at 100yds has similar flight paterns to a .308 at 400yds. I shoot super sonic bullets out of my rifle that don't hit the trans-sonic barrier until about 250yds but at that distance u better have some good equations to account for the "spin drift".

Now I don't want to start any fights on my first post so I will redirect you to a tv show. Recently on Top Shot one of the conestents shot a golf ball at 100yds with a .22lr and the other 2 ppl weren't even close. That is because he knew what the bullet would do out at that distance. I shoot spent 12gauge shells with my 22lr at 100yds all the time for fun. You should try it some time. Alot of fun.

Fyi an air gun at 100yds is even wors with spin drift.</div></div>

I have no obviously measureable spin drift when moving from 25 to 100 yards. In dead calm conditions, supersonic and standard velocity loads shot from my Marlin both stay true as far as windage is concerned. Do not take this as a personal attack, but 3" to the right at 100 yards seems a little much...

Just my .02. Wind and shooter error, in my experiences with .22, show a hell of a lot more deviance than spin drift.

-Travis
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bullbarrel78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I am way late on the topic but I was doing some reading and found this topic and tnought I could shed some light on the situation. I am only 23yrs old and have practiced with my .22lr more than any gun I know. And if there is one thing I know about it is how it shoots. I sight it in for 20yds but take shots out to 100 yds. At that distance my bullets drift over 3" to the right. Now this may throw the people who shoot long range off a bit but here is why.

Although the spin on a .22lr bullet is low and so is the distance the B.C. is so much lower that you will find that a .22lr bullet at 100yds has similar flight paterns to a .308 at 400yds. I shoot super sonic bullets out of my rifle that don't hit the trans-sonic barrier until about 250yds but at that distance u better have some good equations to account for the "spin drift".

Now I don't want to start any fights on my first post so I will redirect you to a tv show. Recently on Top Shot one of the conestents shot a golf ball at 100yds with a .22lr and the other 2 ppl weren't even close. That is because he knew what the bullet would do out at that distance. I shoot spent 12gauge shells with my 22lr at 100yds all the time for fun. You should try it some time. Alot of fun.

Fyi an air gun at 100yds is even wors with spin drift. </div></div>

Sorry dude spin drift isn't the culprit. The wind is getting you,your're canting the rifle or have the scope mounted with the reticle not plum.Possibly there's something wrong with the nut behind the butt. I've run across the latter a few times.
 
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Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

Or, there's also the possibility that the shooter does not pull the trigger directly to the rear of the rifle, but instead at an angle; specifically to the left. This would cause the movement being discussed as well. But again, this falls under the category of, "shooter error" and is specifically called torquing the rifle. Basically just misaligning the sights at the worst possible moment as a result of an un-true trigger pull.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

3 inches at 100 yards??? I think your bore and your scope mount are not parellel or something.

With a 1:16 twist barrel at 100yrds, the bullet is turning 225 times based on no speed loss. At most it is turning 300 times? In 80 yards (100-20yrd zero) it is going to shift 3 inches?

Shoot it at a high enough angle and the bullet will come around and hit you.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bullbarrel78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I am way late on the topic but I was doing some reading and found this topic and tnought I could shed some light on the situation. <span style="color: #FF0000">NOPE you can't.</span> I am only 23yrs old and have practiced with my .22lr more than any gun I know.<span style="color: #FF0000"> I am 43 and can say the same thing as well most folks I know can say the same. Which ultimately means I probably know more than you, see my post above. </span>And if there is one thing I know about it is how it shoots. I sight it in for 20yds but take shots out to 100 yds. At that distance my bullets drift over 3" to the right. Now this may throw the people who shoot long range off a bit but here is why. <span style="color: #FF0000">ROTFLMMFAO!!</span>
Although the spin on a .22lr bullet is low and so is the distance the B.C. is so much lower that you will find that a .22lr bullet at 100yds has similar flight paterns to a .308 at 400yds.<span style="color: #FF0000">OK something I can agree with you.</span> I shoot super sonic bullets out of my rifle that don't hit the trans-sonic barrier until about 250yds <span style="color: #FF0000">Do WHAT!?!? Now I know you are sniffing glue, there is no 22LR that is anywhere close to transonic at 250yds.They are ALL SUB sonic long before 250.</span> but at that distance u better have some good equations to account for the "spin drift". <span style="color: #FF0000">LMAO sorry, I can't help myself.</span>
Now I don't want to start any fights on my first post so I will redirect you to a tv show. Recently on Top Shot one of the conestents shot a golf ball at 100yds with a .22lr and the other 2 ppl weren't even close. That is because he knew what the bullet would do out at that distance. I shoot spent 12gauge shells with my 22lr at 100yds all the time for fun. You should try it some time. Alot of fun. <span style="color: #FF0000">Dustin is an excellent all around shooter and has excllent form and natural ability, which ultimately means he probably does not cant his rifle when shooting prone. What does this have to do with proving your spin drift theory if I may be so bold as to ask? </span>
Fyi an air gun at 100yds is even wors with spin drift. </div></div> <span style="color: #FF0000"> </span>

Now go tell the mods I picked on you and you were bullied but remember this:
If you are going to make profound statements about subjects that you so obviously know very little about then you better grow some thick skin. Your post was very entertaining and certainly added weight to some theories I have about the true demographics on this site.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
 
Re: Rotational drift and 22 lr

My input on RF spindrift.
I have a range at my house so I can shoot in any condition. It is not so tough to find dead calm. In a dead calm at 200 yards with Eley 10X I use 3 clicks left to center from a 50 yard no wind zero. I do not worry about it at 100 yards. I am sure it is there. Likely about a bullet with or so. Groups are sub MOA at 100 and sub 1.5 MOA at 200. So, I can tell if the drift is there or not in a dead calm. This is with 1/8th MOA clicks so .75" at 200. With 3" groups, does it matter? That is up to you. Considering wind is near always present, likley not. Do I consider it when taking a 200 yard shot at a crow, yes.
I have spoken to David Tubb about spin drift as well. As I remember, he agreed with me that most people underestimate it due to the lack of time or place to truly establish a no wind, no cant zero. A true no wind, no cant zero is not established in a day or two. It is arrived at by taking careful notes, using precision leveled reticules or scopes, wind gauge, wind flags and watching dust drifts from POI's at various ranges out to the final POI. When the little dust puff's just hang, there is no wind. Is it for everyone, likey not. Does it exist as measurable, repeatable data. Absolutely.
 
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Ernest 5.56
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