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Ruger precision Rimfire progress or lost hope

Jheikki

Private
Minuteman
Mar 15, 2020
96
22
Ishpeming, MI
well about two months ago I bought a nice RPRF had visions of sub MOA shooting at 100 yards, I have done everything I have come across! Trigger done it, bedding done it! Polished bolt done it! Action torque done it! Tried multiple ammos shot many rounds and have managed to go from an average 2.5 MOA at 100 yards to an average of 1.25 MOA.
i am contemplating on ordering a 20” E.R. Shaw barrel, I have read for a SV ammo that a 20” the length

any feed back? Or is this gun just a plincker? I have read many forums with RPRF issues then they went dark and never to be heard from again! Have they settled and accepted it is not what they thought? Or have they found the solution?
 
ive got a few thousand rounds thru mine and im accepting itll never be what im looking for. 1.3 moa at 50 avg over a couple bricks of cci std. CX, Various other mid to high grade ammo gets me near 1 moa, but no better over large samples. i do get a good .4 moa group now and then but its the rare exception. Groups open at longer ranges which is no surprise. Ive had 3 scopes on it, no imrpovement. all the bedding, and other tricks tried. i posted awhile back pix of mine showing the chamber, which was cut crooked. thought about barrels etc, but stumbled on a used V22 locally. The ruger is now my granddaughters.
 
ive got a few thousand rounds thru mine and im accepting itll never be what im looking for. 1.3 moa at 50 avg over a couple bricks of cci std. CX, Various other mid to high grade ammo gets me near 1 moa, but no better over large samples. i do get a good .4 moa group now and then but its the rare exception. Groups open at longer ranges which is no surprise. Ive had 3 scopes on it, no imrpovement. all the bedding, and other tricks tried. i posted awhile back pix of mine showing the chamber, which was cut crooked. thought about barrels etc, but stumbled on a used V22 locally. The ruger is now my granddaughters.
I have never tried shooting mine at 50 yet, we have several feet of snow yet and the range is plowed around and down to 100 yards, I can continually shoot 1.25 - 1.5 MOA at 100 I have had a few times just under MOA. I have had fun plinking at 200 yards on steal but had planned on some competition.
 
I bought one in .22 WMR. I have been pretty disappointed. I bought it as just something fun to shoot while at the range letting my other barrel to cool or whatever. Bedded it, tried a bunch of different ammo, very inconsistent accuracy. I'll keep shooting it see if it comes around.
 
One thing you might consider, not a joke. Benchrest small bore shooters use tuners to adjust the harmonics on their rigs to suit the ammo lots they have bought. If you don't know about tuners, check this out: http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-rimfire-tuners-403

I am not recommending that solution for your rig, but you can accomplish something similar simply but sliding some O rings onto the end of the muzzle. This is trial and error for sure, but if you install somewhere between 3 to 8 O rings, whose diameters would fit tight around the end of your barrel, you will be amazed at the difference it makes in group size.

O rings are available at any hardware store, you want the heavier gauge (thicker material) for the diameter you need. They cost something like $.40 a piece. I did this on an old Remington 40X trainer, it required 5 O rings for some ammo and 8 for other ammo. Suggest you start about 1/2 inch back from the muzzle and just keep adding rings, pushing them toward the breech end of the barrel not toward the muzzle, always keeping the front most ring about 1/2 inch back from the muzzle, and discover what works. I found they work better tightly grouped, rather than spread out -- be thinking a row of O rings each one shoved against the ones around it.

What you are doing here is modifying the barrel harmonics -- even though the rings weigh very little, the harmonics on a .22lr barrel can be modified pretty dramatically with this approach, because the weight of the O rings is out toward the end of the barrel.

You can also try adding these to the mid barrel area -- bench rest small bore shooters use mid barrel tuners as well -- but would suggest you do that only after finding a harmonic node using the O rings near the muzzle first. The mid barrel O rings might give you an additional improvement at 100 yards, but I have found it just not worth the trouble compared to simply shoving some O rings over the muzzle, where they are easier to adjust and manipulate.

There have been tests done on small bore ammunition on accurateshooter.com (link here: https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/) and you can see that small bore rifles are very fussy about the ammo they like. No surprise, they like expensive ammo for the most part, but you can use whatever you wish and tighten the groups as I describe.

You might also try Fiocchi Original 320 ammunition. It comes in a Winter and Summer version, no kidding, and shoots lights out in my Vudoo Tactical rig. A 1/2 inch group on a calm day at 100 yards is pretty routine if I do my part. Pay attention to the Summer and Winter descriptions if you buy some. The Winter shoots great in colder weather and the Summer better in hot weather, presumably because of the powder or load, but both are standard velocity.

Hope this is helpful. Certainly post any questions this raises, I may be able to add something to the outline here.
 
One thing you might consider, not a joke. Benchrest small bore shooters use tuners to adjust the harmonics on their rigs to suit the ammo lots they have bought. If you don't know about tuners, check this out: http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-rimfire-tuners-403

I am not recommending that solution for your rig, but you can accomplish something similar simply but sliding some O rings onto the end of the muzzle. This is trial and error for sure, but if you install somewhere between 3 to 8 O rings, whose diameters would fit tight around the end of your barrel, you will be amazed at the difference it makes in group size.

O rings are available at any hardware store, you want the heavier gauge (thicker material) for the diameter you need. They cost something like $.40 a piece. I did this on an old Remington 40X trainer, it required 5 O rings for some ammo and 8 for other ammo. Suggest you start about 1/2 inch back from the muzzle and just keep adding rings, pushing them toward the breech end of the barrel not toward the muzzle, always keeping the front most ring about 1/2 inch back from the muzzle, and discover what works. I found they work better tightly grouped, rather than spread out -- be thinking a row of O rings each one shoved against the ones around it.

What you are doing here is modifying the barrel harmonics -- even though the rings weigh very little, the harmonics on a .22lr barrel can be modified pretty dramatically with this approach, because the weight of the O rings is out toward the end of the barrel.

You can also try adding these to the mid barrel area -- bench rest small bore shooters use mid barrel tuners as well -- but would suggest you do that only after finding a harmonic node using the O rings near the muzzle first. The mid barrel O rings might give you an additional improvement at 100 yards, but I have found it just not worth the trouble compared to simply shoving some O rings over the muzzle, where they are easier to adjust and manipulate.

There have been tests done on small bore ammunition on accurateshooter.com (link here: https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/) and you can see that small bore rifles are very fussy about the ammo they like. No surprise, they like expensive ammo for the most part, but you can use whatever you wish and tighten the groups as I describe.

You might also try Fiocchi Original 320 ammunition. It comes in a Winter and Summer version, no kidding, and shoots lights out in my Vudoo Tactical rig. A 1/2 inch group on a calm day at 100 yards is pretty routine if I do my part. Pay attention to the Summer and Winter descriptions if you buy some. The Winter shoots great in colder weather and the Summer better in hot weather, presumably because of the powder or load, but both are standard velocity.

Hope this is helpful. Certainly post any questions this raises, I may be able to add something to the outline here.
I have read about tuning the barrel, but I think I will give it a try tomorrow with o-rings.
Thanks
 
Consistent sub moa results with a 22lr is unlikely at 100 yards.
Especially with anything but top grade ammo.
10 fps difference mv between 2 shots with a 40 grain round nose
produces about 1/4 inch of vertical spread at 100 yards.
Add in visible cartridge defects, wind and shooter error
obtaining consistent trajectories is unlikely no matter
how many claims of "all day long" are posted.
The best rifles in the world in a test tunnel, from a fixture
using the best ammo available
have trouble producing 0.75 inch groups at 100 yards.
1.25 to 1.5 inches for 5 shots outdoors with less than perfect ammo
and a mass produced rifle is to be expected.


This is the best results I've seen with a 22 at 200 yards.
3 inches of spread. Apply the half third rule.
Half the distance one third the spread.

100 yards, 1 inch of spread.
50 yards expect 1/3 inch of spread.
From a purpose built custom rifle and lot tested ammo.

Do you expect to equal that?
I don't.

 
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Consistent sub moa results with a 22lr is unlikely at 100 yards.
Especially with anything but top grade ammo.
10 fps difference mv between 2 shots with a 40 grain round nose
produces about 1/4 inch of vertical spread at 100 yards.
Add in visible cartridge defects, wind and shooter error
obtaining consistent trajectories is unlikely no matter
how many claims of "all day long" are posted.
The best rifles in the world in a test tunnel, from a fixture
using the best ammo available
have trouble producing 0.75 inch groups at 100 yards.
1.25 to 1.5 inches for 5 shots outdoors with less than perfect ammo
and a mass produced rifle is to be expected.


This is the best results I've seen with a 22 at 200 yards.
3 inches of spread. Apply the half third rule.
Half the distance one third the spread.

100 yards, 1 inch of spread.
50 yards expect 1/3 inch of spread.
From a purpose built custom rifle and lot tested ammo.

Do you expect to equal that?
I don't.


"Do you expect to equal that?" :rolleyes:

:eek: I just understand why anyone would expect that kind of performance out of a mass produced $400 gun. o_O
 
Hmmm. Suggest you consider the post, try it, and report back. The major problem with .22.r ammo is inconsistent ignition. On a calm day, no reason you shouldn't see sub MOA groups, and pretty routine to see .5-.75 MOA groups with good ammo and proper tuning.

Have a look at the accurate shooter test data. All combinations of barrels and ammunition are subject to harmonic variance. It is the reason we reload for specific rigs -- trying to find that harmonic sweet spot. Given the variability of .22lr ammunition, you have to adjust the barrel for the ammo, not the reverse.

Or, believe you can't. You will be right either way.
 
Or, you could spend $2.50 on the O rings and see if they work....

As I say, you believe you can or you believe you can't, and you will be right either way.
 
Or, you could spend $2.50 on the O rings and see if they work....

As I say, you believe you can or you believe you can't, and you will be right either way.
I bought O-rings today I will have a chance Wednesday to go out again and test! I also ordered a match barrel and chamber throat reamer to further experiment! I don’t give up to easy, it is more of a challenge than anything.
 
i figured if the RPR would hold 1 moa at 50 id be happy. jheikki please let us know how the testing goes. if you see a significant improvement w the barrel swap i may order one. im also curious to see what if any measurable improvement you get w orings or other tuning options. i have always assumed tuning a rimfire barrel got the BR guys a bit more accuracy w the best equipment and ammo, which is important in their chosen sport. I never imagined a short barreled factory gun would see a measureable improvement w mid grade ammo. im curious what measurable results folks have gotten w oring tuning, or with an installed tuner
 
i figured if the RPR would hold 1 moa at 50 id be happy. jheikki please let us know how the testing goes. if you see a significant improvement w the barrel swap i may order one. im also curious to see what if any measurable improvement you get w orings or other tuning options. i have always assumed tuning a rimfire barrel got the BR guys a bit more accuracy w the best equipment and ammo, which is important in their chosen sport. I never imagined a short barreled factory gun would see a measureable improvement w mid grade ammo. im curious what measurable results folks have gotten w oring tuning, or with an installed tuner
You bet! I will be happy to post results, at each stage whether good or bad
 
Just some feedback/info from my experience with the RPRR. Mine currently has a GM 16" replacement barrel, it shoots on average with CCI SV and SKRM around MOA at 50yd and creeps a little further outside of that at 100yd. I say around MOA as for the average of all my recorded shooting on paper (I have not kept all targets or even scored them all) I am a little over 0.50" @ 50 yd. I don't have a lot of records of 100yd targets but do remember it creeping outside of MOA @ 100.

Some other background and info, I struggled a bit to find any form of acceptable accuracy with the rifle initially but was dedicated to figuring it out. I found that the composite/plastic chassis would twist at the buttstock connecting wrist with any real pressure on the cheek riser. I had to learn to keep a lighter cheek weld (I prefer to really dig my cheek in typically). I also found that the grip angle caused me to wrap my thumb and torque the grip slightly, I replaced the grip with a more vertical grip and this made things a little better so I decided to replace with a full vertical grip, this allowed me to avoid wrapping my thumb and reduced that grip torque.

Barrel came next, I had seen someone comment that removing the thread protector improved their 50yd accuracy so I gave it a try and it did significantly improve for my rifle. I have read others state this did nothing for their rifle, but for mine it did make a difference. This actually got my rifle to an acceptable platform. I went ahead and replaced the barrel hoping this would be the thing to get me to sub MOA, the barrel replacement was smooth and simple, but didn't really improve the accuracy as much as I expected and disappointed me a bit. I did leave the GM barrel and have accepted that this is the limit I will go to for this rifle and I am happy with the results I get.

I did also do a significant amount of work on the trigger and eventually replaced with a Timney as part of their beta program. The trigger can be made to be pretty damn good with a little stoning, spring replacement, and shim work.

To add another note, I use the TandemKross double magazine bodies. They are longer for the ability to grab as well as they fit in the chassis much tighter than others I have tried.

RangeDay_2-20-20_RPRR_1.jpg
6_Spades_RPR_9-15-2018_OUT.jpg
IMG_0175.jpg
 
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Just some feedback/info from my experience with the RPRR. Mine currently has a GM 16" replacement barrel, it shoots on average with CCI SV and SKRM around MOA at 50yd and creeps a little further outside of that at 100yd. I say around MOA as for the average of all my recorded shooting on paper (I have not kept all targets or even scored them all) I am a little over 0.50" @ 50 yd. I don't have a lot of records of 100yd targets but do remember it creeping outside of MOA @ 100.

Some other background and info, I struggled a bit to find any form of acceptable accuracy with the rifle initially but was dedicated to figuring it out. I found that the composite/plastic chassis would twist at the buttstock connecting wrist with any real pressure on the cheek riser. I had to learn to keep a lighter cheek weld (I prefer to really dig my cheek in typically). I also found that the grip angle caused me to wrap my thumb and torque the grip slightly, I replaced the grip with a more vertical grip and this made things a little better so I decided to replace with a full vertical grip, this allowed me to avoid wrapping my thumb and reduced that grip torque.

Barrel came next, I had seen someone comment that removing the thread protector improved their 50yd accuracy so I gave it a try and it did significantly improve for my rifle. I have read others state this did nothing for their rifle, but for mine it did make a difference. This actually got my rifle to an acceptable platform. I went ahead and replaced the barrel hoping this would be the thing to get me to sub MOA, the barrel replacement was smooth and simple, but didn't really improve the accuracy as much as I expected and disappointed me a bit. I did leave the GM barrel and have accepted that this is the limit I will go to for this rifle and I am happy with the results I get.

I did also do a significant amount of work on the trigger and eventually replaced with a Timney as part of their beta program. The trigger can be made to be pretty damn good with a little stoning, spring replacement, and shim work.

View attachment 7286593View attachment 7286595View attachment 7286597
Very nice write up, tomorrow I am going to text the tune theory and will post. My barrel comes tomorrow as well but will install that tomorrow night and I also have a thought on the bullet jump and plan to ream a .04 jump for CCI SV ammo, I have checked multiple other brands and they all very but my most common CCI SV, Luapa center X and SK Long Range are all within .02 variance