Rules of a gun fight...

[750SpiritRdr]

Got this from my Dad tonight...

A- Guns have only two enemies rust and politicians.

B- Its always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

C- Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

D- Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arms length.

E- Never say "I've got a gun." If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

F- The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes, the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

G- The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win - cheat if necessary.

H- Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it'll be empty.

I- If you're in a gun fight:

1. If you're not shooting, you should be loading.

2. If you're not loading, you should be movin,

3. If you're not movin', you're dead.


J- In a life and death situation, do something -- It may be wrong, but do something!


K- If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?


L- You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much a universal language.

 

[DustyJacket]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

true words...

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

M _ Gun ready in your hand will beat any fast-draw holster_

 

[750SpiritRdr]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

Yes, he is a Clint Smith fan if you can't tell.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M _ Gun ready in your hand will beat any fast-draw holster</div></div>

Don't bet on that.

When I was a LE instructor, we trained on drawing on someone who has the drop on you, in most cases the guy doing the drawing has the advantage.

Just reciently I was working with one of the local deputies. I was training him with his Model 66 as he got premission to carry the revolver if he could qualify with it.

I was telling him about drawing against someone who had the drop on you. He didn't believe me until I beat him three out of three times.

What we did, I had him point his gun at the target, ready to fire. As soon as he saw me starting to draw, he was to fire.

Like I said, I beat him three out of three times.

Did the same thing with my daughter when I took her to the range when I was in Portland. My wife told her I could draw from my pocket and hit a target at 25 feet in less then .5 seconds.

Daughter wanted to see so I gave her the shot timer, when the buzard went off, I drew and fired.... 0.45 seconds.

Then I told her I could draw and shoot before she could shoot. I told her to get ready. She said she was, I asked "are you sure you're ready" she said yes, "bamb"... Daughter says she wasn't ready. We did this over and over again.

Now in training and the other guy knows you are going to draw, is one thing, but on the street, no one expects you to draw so suprise is on your side.

The thing is if you get the guy pointing his gun talking, its all over, you can't talk and shoot at the same time.

Suprise is on your side. You can act faster then you can re-act.

I know most of you will say I'm full of crap........before you start ranting go out and try it. Get your shooting partner to point at his target, and fire when he sees you start to draw. You probably wont be able to do it at first, but with a bit of practice you'll be supprises.

Now also take into account I pretty much always have my hands in my pocket, always have, and I have my hand on my revolver which is always in my pocket.

The best is when people tell me about the 21 ft rule, meaning if the bandit is with in 21 feet he can get to you before you can draw. Don't bet on it. I don't know anyone who can cover 21 feet from a dead stop in 1/2 second.

I practice that with my granddaughter who's a fast little shit, big in to vollyball, basketball and track.

I'm old and slow, but age has nothing to do with drawing a pistol or revolver if you practice a bit.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

Kraig I am not doubting you at all. I will offer you this challenge. I will stand at ready gun aimed. When the timer beeps I will give you a crisp hundred if you can beat my shot and every time you beat my shot. If I beat you other way round. Last I checked my reaction time at the buzzer with an aimed pistol was .21-.25 seconds really a bit slow but beats .45sec.
Now if you are talkin watchin you from my peripheral, your hand in your pocket, yeah it'd be touch and go. Absoluetely doable.

If the situation is just right this is the best way to get the drop on a pulled pistol

:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SREed7TT5_s"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SREed7TT5_s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

We're talking two differant situations.

The draw from the pocket in < .5 seconds is from the timer.

The drawing and firing before the other guy who has his piston on the target can fire is one on one, no timer in,volved.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

Yeah I figured that is what you meant, as I say, absolutely doable.

 

[wilecoyote]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

my M reply was intented as the difference beteween BEING READY with the gun to the intended target(w. the next IMMEDIATE step being only pull the trigger),versus the necessity to REACTING FAST,including the time to place the hand on the holstered gun,to draw,to shoot_

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

We dont wanna take a fun thread and turn it into a debate, but we recently did force on force training.

I was the bad guy. The responding officers knew I had a gun (tucked in waistband), and were at a low-ready position. I gave them ALL kinds of non-verbal cues that things were about to go bad before I drew on them. Unless I badly fumbled my draw, I got a shot off on probably 80% of them.

 

[SturmHead]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

Quote from Kraig:The thing is if you get the guy pointing his gun talking, its all over, you can't talk and shoot at the same time.

This is true, I have demonstrated it myself.

 

[Guest]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gave them ALL kinds of non-verbal cues that things were about to go bad before I drew on them. Unless I badly fumbled my draw, I got a shot off on probably 80% of them. </div></div>

Talking until your ready to make your move is taught in many a school. Your opponents normal lag time can be easily extended, until you are ready. I was taught to either completely avoid one via situational awareness, or distract, until your ready. Once it starts, finish it.

Edit to add,
No matter the weapon,
<span style="font-weight: bold">"If it's a fare fight, you failed to plan it right."</span>

 

[rls]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

Action will beat reaction most everytime. If you are locked out on someone who has not shown there hands yet, you are still very vulnerable. Seen it in training alot. Good schools also teach civilians not to converse with the bad guy.

 

[bassani]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

love those rules....

Kraig..i wouldnt want to get into a quickdraw contest with you

my response to the quick draw situation is when i have my gun on the bad guy...

take your F'ing hand out of your pocket slowly...

and you better believe that my trigger will be already 1/4-1/2 pulled before i give that instruction

 

[KTDLS7]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

^ ^ ^ What Kraig and SniperCJ said ^ ^ ^

I see it most every time we do firearms training and conduct the "21' drill" and "action-reaction" drill. Action wins almost every time - occasionally there is a tie.

Kevin

 

[Snake Plissken]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring all of their friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap – life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket.”

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don’t drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than 4.

25. You can’t miss fast enough to win.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred</div></div>

Guess you weren't an infantryman. You assualt an ambush. The closer you get to the shooter the more you reduce the cone of fire.

That's why they say you "assualt an ambush" with violence of the assult.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

I'm sure that those rules weren't typed with Volume of Fire via Squad/Platoon numbers on your side in mind. <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> understand what you're saying, but try explaining that to just anybody without saying any more.

More than one way to skin a cat dude.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...in most cases the guy doing the drawing has the advantage.</div></div>

Bill Jordan did it in court. The bailiff was holding a cocked revolver on Jordan as Jordan continued to explain drawing, firing, etc. In mid-sentence he drew and "fired." The bailiff stood there with a cocked revolver and his mouth hanging open.

...but that was Bill Jordan.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

All it takes is practice.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: Rules of a gun fight...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PeUYSWGYRRs"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PeUYSWGYRRs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>