Run-N-Gun [Centerfire Biathlon] kit - What do you run?

[Bakwa]

I've been running my equipment through the mud [literally] and learning what works well in rough conditions and for longer brisk movements. The gear that's available now is lightyears beyond what was available to me in the military in usability and in comfort.

I've currently refined my comp setup and general grab-and-go rig to:
HST Micro chest rig,
Alonzo Def web belt,
mid rid T-rex holster,
Esstac dbl pistol mag pouch,
Esstac single AR mag pouch,
AR with P4Xi 1-4 and Blue Force padded sling,
and a Glock.

What have you refined you Run-N-Gun kit too based on what you've learned?

Anybody run one of those "biathlon slings" on your rifles? If so, what is your general opinion of them, particularly with regards to running comfort?

Cheers!

 

[shoobe01]

What have you refined you Run-N-Gun kit too based on what you've learned?

I have no R-n-G kit, but use it to validate what I already have for field work. Lessons learned when the going gets especially bad, and for long movements under full load with gun (I do long walks with PC and ruck, but the neighbors wouldn't like my rifle also), but I am not gonna build a specific rig for that event myself.

Really good events though. Super interesting to test yourself, especially with so many restrictions on movement in other action shooting. IDPA doesn't let you move more than 10 yards on a stage! And, the ones I have been to are very nicely arranged so they support race/competition folks next to field gear/camo/pack folks. It's good stuff. Wish there was one closer and I'd go every month.

I have never run one of these with a biathalon sling, but have friends who have had them for other events, have poked at them (worn around for a little bit to try). My favorite by far are the pack based ones. Not sure the model etc. but there's a way to get the sling to snap into the old Swiss style steel external frame (like their version of the ALICE Med) then it's rock solid, and you can run, climb, etc. and it won't move. Yes, you can do this with the pack on, but it would take some practice; I couldn't do it when trying it on in someone's house.

For any of these, avoid falling on your back though! And... the obstacles and mud and so on might make that a risk so I am not sure I don't like the gun just in my hands after all, so I can get it out of the way.

If allowed to by range safety, it might be interesting just to try an Erblestock gun scabbard type thing, then the gun is protected, padded, and a modern (ish) pack design. My SBR fits entirely inside that, especially folded, so would be very out of the way for such a thing, IF allowed.

 

[Bakwa]

Gonna give this one good bump before burying it.
I'm surprised more people around here don't participate in any run'n'gun comps.

 

[Rerun7]

I’ve done these on a pretty regular basis for the last few years and they are a lot of fun. Gives me another reason to train throughout the year and refine what works and what doesn’t in a more dynamic environment. I’m sure IDPA is fun but it’s very different running a 10k in full kit with obstacles and shooting along the way. The heat index was 114 in our last race, it was tough.

Here’s my typical setup:
-hsgi slim belt with double decker tacos, utility pouch and a dump pouch
-safariland ALS with Glock 17
-hydration bladder
-AR that I built to be lightweight and accurate with a razor 1-6
-vtac sling (I haven’t tried the biathlon)

If I’m doing a run that requires more ammo I’ll add in a chest rig that clips into my hydration harness. I’d also recommend carrying an ifak and a multi tool.

Clothing is dependent on the weather but I use the same trail running shoes for summer and winter.

 

[Bolo]

Not really the same as run-n-gun, but I do winter biathlon with a biathlon sling. Mine's old AF, and stll mostly comfortable.

I'd just question how it would do with a plate carrier- part of why it's comfortable is the grippy surface on the upper yoke that keeps the rifle from sliding left and right on your back and chafing. If there's nothing to keep the carrier from sliding, it could get irritating pretty quick.
One thing I found out the hard way, the really good comfortable ones are designed for Anschutz rail mounts. You should be able to use the same t-nuts on a Keymod handguard, but probably need an adapter for anything else.

 

[shoobe01]

...If there's nothing to keep the carrier from sliding, it could get irritating pretty quick...

Do you mean if the PC slides? If so, that's user error. It should be tight enough around the body that it doesn't move. Conventional wisdom is tight enough that the shoulders don't bear all the load, for example. I know it's not just me because a new thing I am trying out to help with airflow barely has any way to attach to the armor; it's held in place when being worn by the pressure between armor and body.

If I misread, do tell. Interested.

...You should be able to use the same t-nuts on a Keymod handguard, but probably need an adapter for anything else...

A lot of folks forget this, but hardware is hardware. I have several things attached to my railed handguards that are very much not for that system. It helps I have the generic slots on an Alpha rail on most of my guns, but on most any rail, you can figure out a way to just put screws and nuts through holes and almost any (not zero-sensitive) item will hold just fine. Opens up options for stuff like this very nicely.

 

[Bolo]

Do you mean if the PC slides? If so, that's user error. It should be tight enough around the body that it doesn't move.

Again, I'm skiing, not running, so YMMV. It depends on the PC, but I do it to maximize the cardio exercise aspect, not "full battle rattle" movement to contact. A looser fit that permitted full expansion of my chest is a must have.
Considering the sum total of my experience of exercising with body armor was only with an IOTV- if it's missing the kevlar it did shift quite a bit. With kevlar, no real movement and no chafing, but always felt like my breathing was restricted. Kevlar and ESAPI? Forget it..
I did try a cheap-ish Blackhawk PC once, for about 1Km. Not a fan, at all.

...but on most any rail, you can figure out a way to just put screws and nuts through holes and almost any (not zero-sensitive) item will hold just fine.

Agreed. It's not the actual nuts that's the issue. On the competition harnesses, there's a metal 'shoe' that connects the harness to the rifle's forend. It sets the spacing between the nuts. It's not a soft mount, either... there's an aluminum or polymer standoff built in to the yoke that keeps you from whacking your head on the barrel when slung.
Not a problem with an Anschutz / UIT rail, there's enough 'slop' in a Keymod slot to make it work, but a lot of other applications will require a modification to either the sling's shoe or addition of a short UIT rail section to the rifle.

 

[Burdy]

@Bakwa I've run 4 of them so far, and have two more this year. I tend to run more like the Taliban and less like a SEAL in these events, choosing to go as light and minimal as possible. I have a write up on all of my R&G's and the kit I used on my website twobluescrews.com
If you are going, I will be at Legion in two weeks for the 9/11 memorial run. I will be changing things up a bit and including a micro chest rig on this one since the round count is a bit higher.

 

[skatz11]

I’ve only done one RNG event (Heartbreak) For me it was more of a walk and shoot. I was really happy with how gear felt and performed.

Safariland 3gun belt and ALS holster
Low profile micro style molle chest rig (AR and pistol mag pouches, and snacks)
H style harness with a 2L hydration carrier
TAB Gear biathlon sling

I did a few test hikes to tune the gear fit and make sure it was comfortable. I strongly recommend a duty type holster with active retention. Between your sling and the obstacles it sure is nice to know that your pistol isn't coming out of the holster unless you want it to.

The only thing I will do differently is to make sure my water has an electrolyte supplement in it&. I drank my whole 2L over that 10K and I cramped up pretty good during the last few miles after the obstacle course.

 

[Burdy]

I’ve only done one RNG event (Heartbreak) For me it was more of a walk and shoot. I was really happy with how gear felt and performed.

Safariland 3gun belt and ALS holster
Low profile micro style molle chest rig (AR and pistol mag pouches, and snacks)
H style harness with a 2L hydration carrier
TAB Gear biathlon sling

I did a few test hikes to tune the gear fit and make sure it was comfortable. I strongly recommend a duty type holster with active retention. Between your sling and the obstacles it sure is nice to know that your pistol isn't coming out of the holster unless you want it to.

The only thing I will do differently is to make sure my water has an electrolyte supplement in it&. I drank my whole 2L over that 10K and I cramped up pretty good during the last few miles after the obstacle course.

Ive found its best to keep your supplement separate in a gel like form or something similar. The water needs to be water, in case you need to use it to squirt and clean off optics....or wounds.

 

[Simonsza1]

I have a biathlon exercise coarse set up on my land that the wife and I both run. She just uses a padded sling and holds her rifle behind her while running to stabilize. I use a tab biathlon sling but also keep a hand behind me to stabilize rifle.

 

[Rerun7]

The only thing I will do differently is to make sure my water has an electrolyte supplement in it&. I drank my whole 2L over that 10K and I cramped up pretty good during the last few miles after the obstacle course.

The heat index on my last run was 114 and saw several guys drop out due to heat and others on side of the trail cramping, etc.

If you are waiting until the event to hydrate then it’s already too late. You need to be hitting water pretty hard all the time but especially the whole week leading up.

 

[Hawkeyemm]

Anyone know where I can find a comprehensive nationwide (or at least middle of the country) list of these types of events? And please don’t point me towards a Facebook page as I have a hard and fast rule against Facebook.

 

[Burdy]

Anyone know where I can find a comprehensive nationwide (or at least middle of the country) list of these types of events? And please don’t point me towards a Facebook page as I have a hard and fast rule against Facebook.

Man I tried to get this going on my website, twobluescrews.com but I can't seem to find an easy way to locate the events. If people will send them to me I will put them up, but like you I don't have Facebook which seems to be where everyone thinks everyone hangs out now days. It's been a struggle.

 

[Simonsza1]

Plus 1 for screw Facebook and the likes. If you put run and gun in the search bar at practiscore it will usually pull up a few. Also if you search it online there will be some info that pops up, you may need to read through some articles to find links to events and stuff there was one by recoil magazine with some. If I think of some more I’ll put it here

 

[Bakwa]

Due to the nature of sanctioning [or there lack of] for these types of events, there isn't a "official" name for them. Many have self titled themselves as Run-N-Gun, so unfortunately searching that is really your best bet.
It's not like 3-gun or IPSC where they are sanctioned and standardized, and therefor labeled by their type across the country.

I've found out about more through word of mouth at the events than I ever did searching on the internet. lol

P.S. I'm going to try and go to the Rivers Bend Gun Club Run-N-Gun in GA this Aug May if they're doing it this year.
Cheers!

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

Here's an "average" of what my kit usually is: http://practicalsharpshooter.com/load-out-2020-gun-run-clinton-house/

Also here's a list I've compiled, I try to keep it updated as I've got several guys that keep asking what's coming up and aren't on FB: http://practicalsharpshooter.com/2021-run-n-gun-events/

And @Bakwa RBGC Run n Gun is late May this year.

 

[J-Ham]

@Bakwa I've run 4 of them so far, and have two more this year. I tend to run more like the Taliban and less like a SEAL in these events, choosing to go as light and minimal as possible. I have a write up on all of my R&G's and the kit I used on my website twobluescrews.com
If you are going, I will be at Legion in two weeks for the 9/11 memorial run. I will be changing things up a bit and including a micro chest rig on this one since the round count is a bit higher.

Dude, really digging your website! I've read a few of the articles this morning, well written & entertaining with some gear insights from use as well. Thanks for the link, I'm a fan!

 

[salmonstalker]

Anyone know where I can find a comprehensive nationwide (or at least middle of the country) list of these types of events? And please don’t point me towards a Facebook page as I have a hard and fast rule against Facebook.

2021 Run n Gun Calendar -

Listing of 2021 Run n Gun competitions around the United States. Event schedule for known RnG events.

practicalsharpshooter.com

I did the Pawnee Winter Run 'n Gun last month. Learned a ton.

If you find any other sites that have a list, please let me know. This is the only one I have found, besides digging on Practiscore.

 

[Hawkeyemm]

2021 Run n Gun Calendar -

Listing of 2021 Run n Gun competitions around the United States. Event schedule for known RnG events.

practicalsharpshooter.com

I did the Pawnee Winter Run 'n Gun last month. Learned a ton.

If you find any other sites that have a list, please let me know. This is the only one I have found, besides digging on Practiscore.

Thank you for that salmon. Sincerely. Couldn’t of asked for a better response.
I was signed up for Paris but obviously that didn’t work out.

 

[Rerun7]

2021 Run n Gun Calendar -

Listing of 2021 Run n Gun competitions around the United States. Event schedule for known RnG events.

practicalsharpshooter.com

I did the Pawnee Winter Run 'n Gun last month. Learned a ton.

If you find any other sites that have a list, please let me know. This is the only one I have found, besides digging on Practiscore.

How did you do at Pawnee? I was there too. When crossing the creek I lost my footing and fell completely in. It made for a cold back half of the course, haha. It was more like a mud run through most of it.

Thank you for that salmon. Sincerely. Couldn’t of asked for a better response.
I was signed up for Paris but obviously that didn’t work out.

Anyone know what happened to Paris? Are they rescheduling again or just cancelling?

 

[salmonstalker]

How did you do at Pawnee? I was there too. When crossing the creek I lost my footing and fell completely in. It made for a cold back half of the course, haha. It was more like a mud run through most of it.




Anyone know what happened to Paris? Are they rescheduling again or just cancelling?

I ran pretty well, all things considered. Like the mud and rain. Ended up in the top 10 on the 5K, top 5 on the 15K

The scores for several of the 10K runners were way off, so not really sure how that one ended up. My 10K "time" was 35 minutes longer than my combined 15K time, sooo....... who knows.

I was waist deep through the creek on the second time through, but stayed upright

Learned a lot about how the stages are run. Training with weight is going to be critical. I only ran with the plate carrier I used a few times loaded out. Starting a regular running routine with weight is on my agenda. Got back and immediately started training for a half marathon though.

Water on the 10K would have been a good idea. I slammed 2 bottles between the 5K and 10K, and brought one with me. By the wait on stage 4, I was quite thirsty.

3 largest changes I'm going to make are
1) Different rifle sling setup (hopefully different rifle as well).
2) Bring 32-62oz water on the 10K portion.
3) Run the plate carrier tighter with a couple less mags, or a suspender/belt setup with less mags.


Another site for some Run 'n Gun links

Event List

Here are some other Run and Gun races. If you are a match director, please send us a link for your match. Texas:Texas Run and Gun (Lone Star Armory, WTF, & Sons of the Desert)Impact Run n GunPecos Run and Gun WesTex Run N Gun Oklahoma: Pawnee Run and GunOklahoma Multi-Gun Twilight RnGMan Day...

thegunrun.us

 

[Rerun7]

Good job! Yeah, their scoring is all jacked up. I enjoyed the course but the scoring leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have to remember it’s just for fun. We are offering to help them on the scoring so we’ll see if they take us up on it.

My kit evolved several times as I started running these, especially my rifle. I feel like I have it pretty dialed in now so it’s just little tweaks.

I typically start doing all my runs with the same weight I’m going to carry about 3 months before the event.

 

[Burdy]

Dude, really digging your website! I've read a few of the articles this morning, well written & entertaining with some gear insights from use as well. Thanks for the link, I'm a fan!

I appreciate it man. I like writing them, Ive just been so slammed since late last year it has taken a backseat. I still have to do the write up for the Zombie Team match at some point...its was a disaster, a hoot and a blast, should make for some good reading.
@NGCSUGrad09 since you are more in the mix with upcoming events, I think Ill just link my event page to your website event page if you don't mind

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

I appreciate it man. I like writing them, Ive just been so slammed since late last year it has taken a backseat. I still have to do the write up for the Zombie Team match at some point...its was a disaster, a hoot and a blast, should make for some good reading.
@NGCSUGrad09 since you are more in the mix with upcoming events, I think Ill just link my event page to your website event page if you don't mind

Any time!

 

[Burdy]

Any time!

Done. Thank you sir.

 

[Rerun7]

@salmonstalker thanks for posting that link. I had no idea about the Pawnee night time run. I’m signing up.

Just not sure if I want to do the NV run or the flashlight run.

 

[salmonstalker]

I'll give this thread a refresh. Anyone going to any of the upcoming Run & Guns in the Texas/Oklahoma area?

I ran the WTF Sunday Sprint down in Crawford, TX in October. That was a really well run match. All of the scoring and wait time was on tablets by the ROs, with no paper cards to carry. The stages were challenging, and I would not try to run it with iron sights again.

I made a list of the Run n Guns I could find upcoming (some of them hopefully) in the Oklahoma and Texas area. I'm going to try to hit a few of them in 2022.

If anyone wants to add others please do.

Battle Springs Run n Gun	Ardmore, OK	29-Jan​	Oklahoma Run 'n Gun - Organizers of the Battle Springs Run 'n Gun (formerly the Pawnee Run 'n Gun) The Battle Springs Run 'n Gun is a centerfire biathlon. Competitors have the choice of a 5K, 10K, or 15K run, and will complete several shooting stages for rifle and pistol along the way, designed to test the competitor's skills under a variety of situations. Competitors must carry all of... www.okrunngun.com
WTF Arkansas	Paris, AR	5-Feb​	Waco Tactical Fitness Waco Tactical Fitness is a nonprofit 501(c)3 charity that is dedicated to supporting youth marksmanship activities. www.wtfbiathlon.com
Wes Tex Run n Gun	Ft. Davis, TX	12-Feb​	https://westexrun-n-gun.com/
Burial Mound Run n Gun	Pawnee, OK	26-Feb​	Home | PractiScore www.practiscore.com
Farrell Run n Gun	Meridian, TX	26-Mar​	Farrell Run n Gun | Old Eighteen Defense Located in Meridian, Texas, Farrell Ranch is an 1,800 acre ranch with endless possibilities for exciting stages. As the ranch sits just north of Spencer Mountain, it offers some amazing terrain that we will run through and shoot in and out of. www.oedefense.com
Stillwaters Run n Gun	Llano, TX	September??	Stillwaters Run n Gun | Old Eighteen Defense Located in Llano Texas, at the edge of the Riley Mountains, Stillwaters Ranch is a beautiful property home to a wide range of activities from trophy white tail hunting to extreme off-roading. Look forward to some unique terrain and great shooting locations. www.oedefense.com
Mile High Centerfire Biathlon	Marfa, TX	15-Oct​	Mystery Lights Run 'N Gun www.mysterylightsrunngun.com
WTF Crawford	Crawford, TX	October??	Waco Tactical Fitness Waco Tactical Fitness is a nonprofit 501(c)3 charity that is dedicated to supporting youth marksmanship activities. www.wtfbiathlon.com
Pecos Run n Gun	Pecos, TX	October ??	Pecos Run 'n Gun in the Sun

Run n Gun Lists	Event List Here are some other Run and Gun races. If you are a match director, please send us a link for your match. Texas:Texas Run and Gun (Lone Star Armory, WTF, & Sons of the Desert)Impact Run n GunPecos Run and Gun WesTex Run N Gun Oklahoma: Pawnee Run and GunOklahoma Multi-Gun Twilight RnGMan Day... thegunrun.us
	2021 Run n Gun Calendar - Listing of 2021 Run n Gun competitions around the United States. Event schedule for known RnG events. practicalsharpshooter.com

 

[salmonstalker]

Good job! Yeah, their scoring is all jacked up. I enjoyed the course but the scoring leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have to remember it’s just for fun. We are offering to help them on the scoring so we’ll see if they take us up on it.

My kit evolved several times as I started running these, especially my rifle. I feel like I have it pretty dialed in now so it’s just little tweaks.

I typically start doing all my runs with the same weight I’m going to carry about 3 months before the event.

Since the Oklahoma Run n Gun and Burial Mound parted ways, has anyone at Burial Springs taken you up on your offer of scoring help?

I noticed that the Oklahoma Run n Gun updated their website to say they will be using timers this year.

 

[Rerun7]

The OK RnG guys wouldn’t take us up on the offer.

The new guys running the Burial Mound event have been putting on night time runs there for a while and they are way more organized. Scores are entered electronically at each stage so your card only holds your wait times.

Looking forward to see how they handle the larger daytime shoot. I don’t plan on going back to the OK RnG event until I hear some reports that they’ve gotten their act together.

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

Here's the 2022 Schedule I've got compiled so far

http://practicalsharpshooter.com/2022-run-n-gun-calendar/

 

[Simonsza1]

Thanks for posting that schedule. Quite a few fairly close to me.

 

[hlee]

My son and I will be running the 5k event this weekend...

The Ranch Run n Gun - 2021 Series Championship | Old Eighteen Defense

Come join us for the 2021 Series Championship at the Ranch. Located in Dilley, Texas, south of San Antonio, the Ranch is a world class training facility. The property consists of a shoot house, multiple sim-houses, 2 tracks, 360 degree shooting bay and more....and we plan to use them all!

www.oedefense.com

We're not trying to win, and our scores will be jacked up because we will be waiting for each other so that we can transition together. But, it is a great time shooting, and in the 2 events we have done so far, we haven't finished last...

 

[salmonstalker]

The OK RnG guys wouldn’t take us up on the offer.

The new guys running the Burial Mound event have been putting on night time runs there for a while and they are way more organized. Scores are entered electronically at each stage so your card only holds your wait times.

Looking forward to see how they handle the larger daytime shoot. I don’t plan on going back to the OK RnG event until I hear some reports that they’ve gotten their act together.

I'm scheduled for the new location, and really want to like it, given it is a closer drive for me. I have similar reservations though. I'll let you know how it ends up.

That's one of the things I really liked about the WTF Run n Gun. They had an RO ask to see a clear rifle, and then your runner number, when you approached the stage. They verified your name, and hit start on the tablet, which started your wait time. Your wait time ended when you either started the stage, or ended the stage. They ran Bluetooth timers that synced with the pads. It was seamless, and final scoring was completed pretty quickly.

 

[Rerun7]

Let us know how it goes. It’s a farther drive for me so I’ll join back up when they get it working better.

The new venue looks like they could put on some amazing stages of done right.