I had 50 rounds of RWS brass once fired. I checked the runout of the empty cases on my RCBS Case Master and all 50 rounds measured no more than .001 runout. When I ran them through the redding bushing die(with .332 or .331 ) the very best were .0025 with the worst being .006. Im still a novice reloader but I can only come up with two possible issues. 1 either the cases have .0025-.006 difference in neck thicknesses or the die is causing a problem. The rws has a great rep for being second only to lapua as far a quality so i think it is the die. I have removed the expander ball. the fired case measures .340 the sized case measures .331 to .330, is this to much in one step? Any ideas?
Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
- Thread starter AtownBcat
- Start date
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
Your sizing .308 win?
.331-.332 sounds a bit small.. If you have a loaded round to measure, (do a handful to get an average)
And try a bushing size .002-.003" below the average.
Any more than that and your needlessly over working the brass. I don't know how oversizing can affect concentricity, but as a ballpark figure I think you should be using the .334-.336 range of bushings.
Your sizing .308 win?
.331-.332 sounds a bit small.. If you have a loaded round to measure, (do a handful to get an average)
And try a bushing size .002-.003" below the average.
Any more than that and your needlessly over working the brass. I don't know how oversizing can affect concentricity, but as a ballpark figure I think you should be using the .334-.336 range of bushings.
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
Im actually loading 300WM. I will measure a couple of loaded rounds and see what I get, but i remember that it needed to be about .002 smaller and what i bought was .332-.329.
Im actually loading 300WM. I will measure a couple of loaded rounds and see what I get, but i remember that it needed to be about .002 smaller and what i bought was .332-.329.
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
Way to small a bushing unless you have extremely thin necks on your brass. I use tube Micrometers to check thickness but you can do it with calipers. Your neck should run around .014 to .015. If you double that you get .030 for .015 add the .308 you get .338. .002 tension you would need a .336 bushing. The expander is working so hard to open the neck you are stretching it out of shape.
Way to small a bushing unless you have extremely thin necks on your brass. I use tube Micrometers to check thickness but you can do it with calipers. Your neck should run around .014 to .015. If you double that you get .030 for .015 add the .308 you get .338. .002 tension you would need a .336 bushing. The expander is working so hard to open the neck you are stretching it out of shape.
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
What is the diameter of fired brass, I think you need to size the neck down in smaller increments, no more than .005 at a time, by going from say .344 down to .331 you are over working the brass and inducing runout
What is the diameter of fired brass, I think you need to size the neck down in smaller increments, no more than .005 at a time, by going from say .344 down to .331 you are over working the brass and inducing runout
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
you both could be on to something...my fired cases measure .340 so im going down right at .009 to get to .331. and it sounds like I may be going to small on top of that.
you both could be on to something...my fired cases measure .340 so im going down right at .009 to get to .331. and it sounds like I may be going to small on top of that.
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
.331-.308 (bullet) =.23 Which would be 11.5 case thickness. This sounds kinda on the thin side for "good quality" brass. Mabye there is some spring back to that and its really a little thicker. Im guessing that your busing needs to be larger. If you do have spring back and your brass is thicker and you have removed the expander ball you might be forcing the bullet into a neck that is much more than .002-.003 smaller. This would be bad.
What you really need to measure is a loaded round or 2 and find an average size for the loaded rounds.
.331-.308 (bullet) =.23 Which would be 11.5 case thickness. This sounds kinda on the thin side for "good quality" brass. Mabye there is some spring back to that and its really a little thicker. Im guessing that your busing needs to be larger. If you do have spring back and your brass is thicker and you have removed the expander ball you might be forcing the bullet into a neck that is much more than .002-.003 smaller. This would be bad.
What you really need to measure is a loaded round or 2 and find an average size for the loaded rounds.
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
What rifle were they fired in? Was the action trued and barrel fitted straight? The chamber and neck can be in alignment and show almost no run-out when being spun, but the base of the case can be out of alignment ((not square) with the chamber...when that case is pushed into a bushing NECK die, the out of square base can cause a deflection of the body of the case and subsequent run-out will be created.
What rifle were they fired in? Was the action trued and barrel fitted straight? The chamber and neck can be in alignment and show almost no run-out when being spun, but the base of the case can be out of alignment ((not square) with the chamber...when that case is pushed into a bushing NECK die, the out of square base can cause a deflection of the body of the case and subsequent run-out will be created.
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
My Rifle is a remington 700 with a Kreiger barrel and they did a level 2 trueing(truing) when they did the barrel install and the cases have been run through a redding body die and dont show any runout before the neck die.
I also measured 2 loaded rounds and they measure .335-.334 so the .332 is just .002-.003 smaller...
It is however a .006 reduction so im over the .005 at a time limit.
I also just ran 5 cases through the lee collett die and they were all right around .0015...so im still pretty sure the problem is in the bushing die
My Rifle is a remington 700 with a Kreiger barrel and they did a level 2 trueing(truing) when they did the barrel install and the cases have been run through a redding body die and dont show any runout before the neck die.
I also measured 2 loaded rounds and they measure .335-.334 so the .332 is just .002-.003 smaller...
It is however a .006 reduction so im over the .005 at a time limit.
I also just ran 5 cases through the lee collett die and they were all right around .0015...so im still pretty sure the problem is in the bushing die
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
The collet die puts about .002 tension on, why not just use that for a batch and see how they shoot? A bit painful if they shoot better after paying for the bushings die I know.. But it's the results that count!
The collet die puts about .002 tension on, why not just use that for a batch and see how they shoot? A bit painful if they shoot better after paying for the bushings die I know.. But it's the results that count!
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
if the necks measure larger than the bushing after coming out of the collet die try running it through the bushing to see what happens to the runout....it could help pin point the problem
if the necks measure larger than the bushing after coming out of the collet die try running it through the bushing to see what happens to the runout....it could help pin point the problem
Re: Runout problems with redding bushing neck dies...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AtownBcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had 50 rounds of RWS brass once fired. I checked the runout of the empty cases on my RCBS Case Master and all 50 rounds measured no more than .001 runout. When I ran them through the redding bushing die(with .332 or .331 ) the very best were .0025 with the worst being .006. </div></div>
I had the same problem. I ran a test on 22-250 brass where I progressively reduced the diameter of the fired neck in .001" increments. Once I reduced the neck diameter by more than .003", I started to see runout and the runout got worse the more I sized the neck. My solution was a Lee Collet Neck Die.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AtownBcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had 50 rounds of RWS brass once fired. I checked the runout of the empty cases on my RCBS Case Master and all 50 rounds measured no more than .001 runout. When I ran them through the redding bushing die(with .332 or .331 ) the very best were .0025 with the worst being .006. </div></div>
I had the same problem. I ran a test on 22-250 brass where I progressively reduced the diameter of the fired neck in .001" increments. Once I reduced the neck diameter by more than .003", I started to see runout and the runout got worse the more I sized the neck. My solution was a Lee Collet Neck Die.
