S/A 284 shehane

[Jedi]

AS the shehane ver only blows out body and does not shorten neck etc, lil more case capacity
Modified AI mags will feed 2.975 OAL reliably
RE17 under a 162amax
22" barrel
2900fps should be very doable, top end per QL 3000fps
(Ql info for RE17 is outta whack)

need to crunch more numbers
how much do i gain if any running either of my current loads
123 skinie @ 3023fps


so not sure if gains warrant cost of doing it
Just ran numbers thru QL, 284 is about 4MOA better @ 1k for drift 10mph wind

 

[mkollman74]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Any issues with COAL from your SA?

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Sure, one cant run 180 etc without encroaching on case capacity.
However the 162amax will be at the optimal OAL @ 2.975, so doable but a long action would be better.

Still not sure if gains warrant effort
6xc,X47 and CM are hard to beat in a S/A

 

[KYS]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

I think you are wasting your time with a SA 284. Why cap the AMAX at 2.975?
I run mine out to 3.210 with 4831SC. I easily hit 2950 but thats in a 27" barrel. Mine is also not a Shehane. 168 Berger VLD's that are pointed run like a top fuel dragster! They are now my favorite 7mm bullet.

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

I think you are wasting your time with a SA 284. Why cap the AMAX at 2.975?
<span style="color: #000099">Max OAL of AI S/A mag, single loading will resolve issue for f class etc, 2.975 also puts boat tail @ neck junction (ideal OAL)</span>

 

[turbo54]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are wasting your time with a SA 284. Why cap the AMAX at 2.975? </div></div>
<span style="color: #000099">Max OAL of AI S/A mag, single loading will resolve issue for f class etc, 2.975 also puts boat tail @ neck junction (ideal OAL)</span></div></div>

Single loading will certainly solve the S/A issues... But then you'll have throated the chamber for long-loading use, calling into question the effectiveness of the chamber for mag-feeding short cartridges.

Also,even with the front plate removed, you'll find that you won't be able to actually get away with 2.975" COAL. Count on more like 2.950" or 2.955".

As you can see in this picture, the boat tail is WAY below the neck/shoulder junction @ 2.900. At 2.975", it's still .100"+ below the junction.

Will it work? Depends on what you want, really.

For F class, it'll be fine, no doubt about it.

If throated for long cartridges, short cartridge accuracy may suffer (long jump).

If throated for the short cartridges, well, I'll have to get back to you on that. So far, I can get ~2850fps from the 162amax @ 2.950" COAL and no better. I can however get ~2835fps from the 180smk @ 2.950", which is quite respectable. I have more testing to do, but I question if I can do any better than these numbers. With H4831sc, I hit a wall at 2850 where more powder does not make the bullet go faster. With H4350, I'm seeing pressure before I get better velocity. Same with RE17. I still have more testing to do.

The Shehane adds a bit more capacity, but consider what I just wrote about more H4831sc NOT getting higher velocities.

Also consider the 7-08 I just finished up for a friend is getting 2800fps with 162amax over 46.0gr H4350 @ 2.825"....26" barrel, same as my 284.

 

[turbo54]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure, one cant run 180 etc without encroaching on case capacity.
However the 162amax will be at the optimal OAL @ 2.975, so doable but a long action would be better.

Still not sure if gains warrant effort
6xc,X47 and <span style="font-weight: bold"> CM</span> are hard to beat in a S/A
</div></div>

Mark Gordon claims his 7mm Creedmoor is going ~2975fps with 162amax...and it fits a short action cleanly.

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mark Gordon claims his 7mm Creedmoor is going ~2975fps with 162amax...and it fits a short action cleanly. </div></div>

do you have more info?
bullet, powder etc

based on that then a 7XC or 7SLR should be as good

 

[KYS]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure, one cant run 180 etc without encroaching on case capacity.
However the 162amax will be at the optimal OAL @ 2.975, so doable but a long action would be better.

Still not sure if gains warrant effort
6xc,X47 and <span style="font-weight: bold"> CM</span> are hard to beat in a S/A
</div></div>

Mark Gordon claims his 7mm Creedmoor is going ~2975fps with 162amax...and it fits a short action cleanly. </div></div>

It does...... I own the 2nd one he ever built. The first being his prototype. Im getting 2900 easy, and Im not really pushing the load yet. I think the next barrel I will nitride the barreled action.

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Ky
load info
bullet powder
Barrel length

my objective is a short barrel ie 22"

and no matter how i crunch data the gains are nominal if any over my current load in 6.5x47 running a 20" barrel

 

[turbo54]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Ok, I recant my previous statement. I'm at the range right now, and I'm seeing 3025fps with 54.5gr H4350/162amax @ 2.955" COAL

...it seems I may have had some residual melonite filth in the bore when I tried H4350 before. That, and I believe the amax wanted a bit of free-run before engraving in the rifling.

3025 is too hot though, I need to back down to ~2975 or so.

 

[mkollman74]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

7 Creedmoor seems like it might be quite a cartridge. I need to run some numbers...

 

[turbo54]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ky
load info
bullet powder
Barrel length

my objective is a short barrel ie 22"

and no matter how i crunch data the gains are nominal if any over my current load in 6.5x47 running a 20" barrel </div></div>

+1.... sure would like to know powder and chargeweight on that 7CM.

 

[turbo54]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7 Creedmoor seems like it might be quite a cartridge. I need to run some numbers... </div></div>

Yes, it does! Bewildering however... Check out this comparison of a 284 vs the 7CM. Then consider they have EQUAL velicity potential with that 162amax on top... Of course you know the base of the body of the 284 is .500", and the shoulder is as big in diameter as the BASE of the 7CM.

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

I,m not seeing 7cm performing any better than 7-08

long barrel n stuffed with RE17 maybe

but to think that 7cm will equal 284 performance from a short barrel ... not seeing it

However tweaking QL for RE17 (making it correct)
162amax @ 2.950 OAL 22" barrel
2975fps is within max PSI range

Creedmore fever is gettin kinda old
6cm does nothing that 6x47 or 6XC cant do
7cm ?? it wont do anymore than 7-08. To think it will provide 284 like velocity from same barrel length .....

Should i do my build it will be setup solely to run 162amax, single stack mags work better than Aplhas etc
I have run 2.975 OAL before via modified AI mags, non issue

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I recant my previous statement. I'm at the range right now, and I'm seeing 3025fps with 54.5gr H4350/162amax @ 2.955" COAL

...it seems I may have had some residual melonite filth in the bore when I tried H4350 before. That, and I believe the amax wanted a bit of free-run before engraving in the rifling.

3025 is too hot though, I need to back down to ~2975 or so. </div></div>

No probs
great numbers
I know exactly what RE17 can do as its only powder i shot now for last 4yrs or so
Thats why i,m leaning more towards 284 Shehane n 22" barrel as viable @ 2900+ 162amax
Got run data and see what gains can be realized over current load/config
6.5x47
123 skinnie @ 3023fps (reverse calc based on actual range dope using litz BC numbers)
More Data to crunch before i throw $$ into build

Replace the H4350 with RE17 same load
reckon you will see 3150 fps pert easy

 

[turbo54]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Jedi, be careful how you choose your words, as it almost sounds as if you're calling into question the credibility of KYS338 and Mark Gordon - regarding the velocity the 7CM can achieve. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way - but as you know, it's hard to judge "tone" from writings on message boards.

That said, the 2950+ numbers quoted by Mr. Gordon and KYS338 are incredible and I'm still waiting for them to let us in on the powder selection and charge weight getting them there.

Also, don't forget that some cartridges are simply more efficient than others. For example, the 7RSAUM is known to compete VERY well with 7WSM despite its case capacity disadvantage.

It sounds like your 6.5x47 is working really well, it is going to be tough to get a relatively short barrel non-magnum 7mm to outperform it, though I will say this:

Regardless of what all the ballistics calculators say, I *absolutely* believe there is something to the heavier bullets performing better in the wind, even if they don't have a BC advantage when crunching numbers. I understand the theory, and that two bullets (regardless of caliber), with equal BC, fired at equal muzzle velocity in equal conditions will behave identically. In practice, however, I say the heavier bullet performs better. Don't know why.

 

[KYS]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jedi, be careful how you choose your words, as it almost sounds as if you're calling into question the credibility of KYS338 and Mark Gordon - regarding the velocity the 7CM can achieve. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way - but as you know, it's hard to judge "tone" from writings on message boards.

That said, the 2950+ numbers quoted by Mr. Gordon and KYS338 are incredible and I'm still waiting for them to let us in on the powder selection and charge weight getting them there.

Also, don't forget that some cartridges are simply more efficient than others. For example, the 7RSAUM is known to compete VERY well with 7WSM despite its case capacity disadvantage.

It sounds like your 6.5x47 is working really well, it is going to be tough to get a relatively short barrel non-magnum 7mm to outperform it, though I will say this:

Regardless of what all the ballistics calculators say, I *absolutely* believe there is something to the heavier bullets performing better in the wind, even if they don't have a BC advantage when crunching numbers. I understand the theory, and that two bullets (regardless of caliber), with equal BC, fired at equal muzzle velocity in equal conditions will behave identically. In practice, however, I say the heavier bullet performs better. Don't know why. </div></div>

Mark hit 2950 from a Melonited barrel that he did for another customer, that is THAT customer reporting those numbers. I am reporting 2850-2900 with no metal treatments and a moderate load.

This caliber is very interesting, a short action hammer is what I want to say. The pressures and velocity of the 284 in a short combo. Just call it the midget brother of the 284.

 

[KYS]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I,m not seeing 7cm performing any better than 7-08

long barrel n stuffed with RE17 maybe

but to think that 7cm will equal 284 performance from a short barrel ... not seeing it

However tweaking QL for RE17 (making it correct)
162amax @ 2.950 OAL 22" barrel
2975fps is within max PSI range

Creedmore fever is gettin kinda old
6cm does nothing that 6x47 or 6XC cant do
7cm ?? it wont do anymore than 7-08. To think it will provide 284 like velocity from same barrel length .....

Should i do my build it will be setup solely to run 162amax, single stack mags work better than Aplhas etc
I have run 2.975 OAL before via modified AI mags, non issue </div></div>

You are actually quite wrong. The 7-08 is slower and will require more load work then the 7CM to get speeds up. I had a 7-08 and it was horrible. I had to shoot Sierra 150's to get the performance I wanted, now that was probably my fault in choosing the wrong barrel twist but a 7CM will run wild on a 7-08 any day of the week, just in the fact that you can control the loads so easily with minor changes.

 

[KYS]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ky
load info
bullet powder
Barrel length

my objective is a short barrel ie 22"

and no matter how i crunch data the gains are nominal if any over my current load in 6.5x47 running a 20" barrel </div></div>

You wont see its true performance at 22". I would go no shorter then 24".... I will get its load info tonight. "short barrel" is not a 22". That is the standard length for some calibers. When I hear short barrel I think of 18.5"

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Your fps while impressive i,m guessing is dependent on a long barrel ie 27" +

Now if your getting those numbers from a 22" or shorter i would be very surprised and impressed, but i,m betting your running a long barrel which holds zero interest for me.

Have always thought the 7saum was a better choice than 7wsm
nothing new there

While there maybe issues with OAL with a 284 shehane 162amax
that can avoided and duplicate performance achieved via
6.5XC running a 130 vld from a 20" barrel

To be honest all i need to know is what barrel length achieved said 7cm fps
Melonite treated barrels are known to provide high fps, so maybe a 25" treated barrel. Barrel length is the X factor.

 

[KYS]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

Mine is 25" no melonite. Mark's test rifle was 24"
I shoot mine suppressed. I have plenty left in the load to go hotter with the powder if I want to. I have no data on a 22" barrel as we have never seen the need to go down to that.

I am building a 6.5 SAUM.... Will be interesting to see what its capable of.

 

[Jedi]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

6.5saum = barrel burner
6.5wssm based 25wssm works well several BR guys run it, better option than 6.5saum IMHO

I run short barrels coz like you i luv to run a CAN

Are these chrono numbers or reverse calc based on actual dope used?

My next barrel will for sure get melonite, as its very common to have substantial fps gain from process.

Wonder how a 7SLR would do, that maybe the cats ass
30' shoulder more case cap, no fire forming

Given same bullet and barrel length, running same powder
7CM cant NOT run 284 velocties, slice n dice how ya want there is no getting around larger case cap of 284

here are some 7-08 loads from the reloading depot on this site
162 Amax
Win brass
48.5 H4350
Win LR primer
2.955 O.A.L.

2,830 fps is a Savage 24" 1-9.5 FP Tactical barrel

bullet: 162 grain Hornady Amax
powder: 42.0 grains of Varget
OAL: 2.905"
primer: BR2
brass: Winchester
barrel: 25" Pac-Nor SS Match with 8" twist
action: Savage 10
MV: 2805 fps

7-08
Hornady 162gr BTHP Match
41.1gr of Varget
2.800" OAL
2780 fps out of my 24" Brux

RE17 would increase fps 100-150fps maybe more

7CM offers more of same no great gains in performance over 7-08 or 7SLR

 

[Jointshooters]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7CM offers more of same no great gains in performance over 7-08 or 7SLR</div></div>

...just like the 6.5x47 and 6.5XC offer "no great gains in performance" over the 260. They can only hope to match 260 velocities, not exceed them. After all, "there's no getting around larger case capacity".

We've got 7 Creedmoor owners saying they are seeing 2900-2950fps with the 162gr A-Max from 25" barrels...which is comparable to reported performance with that bullet and barrel length from a 284 in a short action, and at least faster than the 7-08 loads that have been posted in this thread.

Is 7 Creedmoor a better mousetrap than 7-08 or a short action 284? Depends on your wants and needs...

 

[Tomg]

Re: S/A 284 shehane

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