Rifle Scopes S&B 3-20 vs 5-20 Ultra Short???

[Alpine 338]

I'm in the market to buy a new scope for my precision AR. Currently running a 4-16x42 on it. Even though magnification and glass are everything I can ask for, I'd like to upgrade to a more modern reticle like the MSR or Tremor 3, and have a little more than 13-Mils of elevation.

I currently run the 5-25's on my bolt guns, and love them.

I had a chance to look through a 5-20 briefly last year, but do not recall what the eye box was like?

My question is, who here can tell me if the eye box on the Ultra Shorts are the same, or different? One being more forgiving than the other? How do they compare to the 4-16 and 5-25?

I would most likely go with the one that has the more forgiving eye box, and if both are the same, I'll probably go with the 3-20 as more mounting soulutions are available for it.

Thanks!

 

[Lowlight]

the 3-20x is a bit longer, but for an AR i used the 5-20x,

there is no issue with the eye box.

 

[Covertnoob5]

the 3-20x is a bit longer, but for an AR i used the 5-20x,

there is no issue with the eye box.

Not to derail, but would you pick the 5-20 on a crossover hunting/prs comp rifle?
Thanks!


Better to have it and not need it, than to not have it and say oh shit.....

 

[longshot2000]

FWIW, here is what i have heard.

First, I have a 5-25 PM-II. I am also in the market for a short. I talked to S&B US rep, and he said that the 5-20 came out first, and they had some issues with fit on many rifles. I do not recall exactly the issue, but it may have been where you can actually mount rings, and it there was some down-side in mounting on an AR platform. You should research this. The 3-20 was made to solve whatever issue they had, and at the same time, they were able to provide more than 6x zoom, compared to 5x zoom.

The 3-20 has been chosen by the US Army as their almost final decision for their new CSASS 7.62 weapon from H&K, now called the XM110A1, FWIW.

I am not sure if there is a price difference. If not, go with the 3-20. If there is, then do some homework on why S&B developed the 3-20 as a replacement.

 

[Conrad]

My inlaws live across the interstate from Mile High. I'm in town for the weekend, so I made it a point to go over and handle the Ultra Shorts. Both had a great image. I love how short the 5-20'is and actually didn't feel like the H59 reticle was overly busy, but could make spotting some misses tougher maybe. This model was non illuminated so there was more space to fit mounts, so that's something to consider if you really want the 5-20 and don't need illumination then mounting options open up. I will say the clicks are pretty fine and close together so it would take some practice to transition to after running Premiers, Razor II, AMG, and ATACR F1 4-16. It is doable though. I think for a shorter scope now I'm content with my F1, but the Ultashort is overall beautiful.

 

[Alpine 338]

Thanks, I'm leaning towards the 3-20 because of the lower cost, and more options on mounting solutions. Reticle options are also greater with the 3-20.

FYI - you can order the Ultra Shorts without illumination, further reducing the cost, and increasing the mounting surface area.

I will be ordering my scope with the seldom seen in USA 14-mil per turn turrets, because of what Conrad mentioned above about the clicks being too close together. I spoke with S&B about this, and asked why they don't market that turret in the USA, and they told me because of the people here in the USA who insist on having as much elevation adjustment as possible 34-mils vs. 26-mils, even though these scopes never go on an extended long range (ELR) platform. I don't think I've ever dialed more than 22-mils with my 5-25, and that's shooting out to almost 2100-yards.

Does anyone know what the length of the scope tube is in front of the erector housing?

 

[Lowlight]

I have all of them here, I can measure them.

Spuhr makes a mount specific for the 5-20x... non-illuminated is definitely easier. I don;t think I ever use the illumination anymore but that is me. I do have a 5-20x non-illuminated I used on the Wilson review and it was perfect. The Spuhr curves around the illumination.

I think for the PRS the ultra shorts are perfect. Find images of my AX308, there is an ultra short on it. The clicks are pretty similar to any MTC version I don't find them worse than any other S&B turret. In fact, I think the Ultra Short turrets work better than the 5-25x locking versions. I would much rather have a DT non locking turret on the 5-25x vs the MTC Locking, I have two that needed work because they weren't right. (full size 3-20x)

I believe Mile High has some 15 Mil models of the 5-20x if you wanted that version. Mile High has a connex full of S&B scopes.

The Army picking an optic is really not a consideration, for years they mixed angular adjustments and just got the hint to stop. They insisted on a QD mount too, meanwhile, they have no reason to need one. As noted they could have gone with a Spuhr but instead went with a GDI QD ... during the tests for mounts they said the spuhr was too Shiny, Hakan was laughing about that charge. I would bet the only reason the Army choose the 3-20x is the FOV vs the 5x model, more so than mounting options, they could have just forced the mount people to make it work.

 

[Lowlight]

3-20x on the AX

 

[longshot2000]

As noted they could have gone with a Spuhr but instead went with a GDI QD

That's interesting. I am trying to keep-up on their choices. Until the XM becomes the M, anything is possible. The last I heard, they were leaning toward a Geissele mount. You have a point on FOV. Seems the 5x is really bad on FOV at 100 yards. It might be me, but I see no reason to choose a 5-20 over the 3-20.

 

[Lowlight]

They wanted a QD, as far as I know, GDI was submitted by HK and it was not changed initially. There is a process and the last time I spoke with Marco, his mount was still the choice beyond the revision process. Every image I have seen has the GDI. I know the GDI works on the 5-20x as I have it on mine.

I think it's the same propaganda by the Giesselle fans, much like the Larue people. Everyone crows about the Larue, then they lose the tests, dropping out first in most cases and only getting submitted if they skip the mount tests. But when they do test the mounts as they are supposed to, GDI wins.

I like the 5-20x as I am never gonna need 5x, let alone 3x. If I go below 8x something is up.

 

[Lowlight]

5-20x on a Wilson 308 in GDI mount

 

[Covertnoob5]

.
I will be ordering my scope with the seldom seen in USA 14-mil per turn turrets, because of what Conrad mentioned above about the clicks being too close together. I spoke with S&B about this, and asked why they don't market that turret in the USA, and they told me because of the people here in the USA who insist on having as much elevation adjustment as possible 34-mils vs. 26-mils

Wait they have a double turn 14 mil per turn turret? Dang I'm going to look into that. I wonder if they would be able to change my turrets to that?


Better to have it and not need it, than to not have it and say oh shit.....

 

[longshot2000]

They wanted a QD, as far as I know, GDI was submitted by HK and it was not changed initially. There is a process and the last time I spoke with Marco, his mount was still the choice beyond the revision process. Every image I have seen has the GDI. I know the GDI works on the 5-20x as I have it on mine.

I think it's the same propaganda by the Giesselle fans, much like the Larue people. Everyone crows about the Larue, then they lose the tests, dropping out first in most cases and only getting submitted if they skip the mount tests. But when they do test the mounts as they are supposed to, GDI wins.

Here is the Giesselle mount at SHOT show this year.

 

[Pusher591]

Just picked up a basically new 5-20 ral8000 with Sphur for a killer deal. Drove to pick it up Friday and I'm not disappointed. I love this scope. Hard to top it as an all around great optic.

I will say the glass in my Minox was a touch better but it's splitting hairs. The glass on all these scopes now are so nice I'm not missing anything from the Minox considering all the options this scope offers me which was the short/small size and weight, great mag range, and phenomenal glass. I may be hard pressed to own any other scopes from now on.

 

[NotMalware]

I've never been able to look through one of these scopes, so maybe someone here can answer a questions that I have. When I look through my Nightforce Beast it feel like I'm looking at an image surrounded by metal; it's kind of a "looking through a tube" sensation if that makes sense. Alternatively, when I look through my Kahles k624i the images seems to fill the scope somehow. It seems closer to me, or maybe it's like the housing of the scope seems smaller. I hope this is describing the sensation adequately. This is a very minor thing, or course. Can someone comment on this as it relates to the ultra short series of scopes? I'm very interested how the eye box and such relates to the two scopes that I mentioned. That's what I have experience with... Thanks.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I've never been able to look through one of these scopes, so maybe someone here can answer a questions that I have. When I look through my Nightforce Beast it feel like I'm looking at an image surrounded by metal; it's kind of a "looking through a tube" sensation if that makes sense. Alternatively, when I look through my Kahles k624i the images seems to fill the scope somehow. It seems closer to me, or maybe it's like the housing of the scope seems smaller. I hope this is describing the sensation adequately. This is a very minor thing, or course. Can someone comment on this as it relates to the ultra short series of scopes? I'm very interested how the eye box and such relates to the two scopes that I mentioned. That's what I have experience with... Thanks.

I think I understand what you're saying, with the metal tube effect. I don't get any of that with my 5-20US. And for me the eye box is fine after setup properly. It really is a great scope, I wish the Spuhr mount had some MOA in it though.


Better to have it and not need it, than to not have it and say oh shit.....

 

[NotMalware]

I think I understand what you're saying, with the metal tube effect. I don't get any of that with my 5-20US. And for me the eye box is fine after setup properly. It really is a great scope, I wish the Spuhr mount had some MOA in it though.


Better to have it and not need it, than to not have it and say oh shit.....

Would you compare the ultra short to the nightforce Beast or Kahles more in terms of the nearness of the image...?