Rifle Scopes S&B 3-20x50-PM II Ultra Short, opinions, 1500m work

[Biscuits]

Schmitt and Bender or a police/military buyer seem to have dumped loads of the 3-20x50-PM II Ultra Short scopes with a FFP mildot reticle on the UK market in the last couple of weeks. There are open box but never mounted for about GBP2,000 (US$2,560) or mounted but very good condition for about GBP1,800 ($2,300). Bear in mind this is the UK, so stuff is never as cheap as in North America. I can't really figure out how much they should cost as they are police/military contract, but I think it is a reasonable discount.

Specs here:
3-20x50-PM II Ultra Short

Riflescopes - Police and Military Forces - 3-20x50 PM II Ultra Short

www.schmidtundbender.de

I think S&B may have updated this scope at some point, I don't know enough about the scope to know if it is pre or post update which are on offer.

I had a play with one unmounted. Could get along with it. The only think I didn't really like is that the illuminated reticle is not daytime visible and the illumination only covers a small central cross hair, it does not illuminate the mildot elevation or windage marks. Maybe it looks a bit weird because it is short. It does have barrel distortion if your eye is not exactly central on the scope, but I guess your eye is supposed to be exactly central on the scope so that doesn't matter.

Will initially be mounted on a .308, might buy a 6.5 Creedmore later.

Want some general opinions on this scope. Also an opinion on if it is suitable for 1,500 metre work. I shoot 1,000m at the moment with a 16x scope, so I know I should be able to see a 1,500m target ok. I'm thinking more of being able to self-spot 6.5 Creedmore bullet impacts at 1,500 metres with a 20x scope.

Oh BTW, some pics of them show a capped windage turret. It does have a protective cap but if you remove it is had a fully weather sealed exposed turret.

Thanks in advance.

 

[RayDBonz]

Following.
Also trying to sort out all the S&B variants - ultra short, ultra bright, etc.

 

[OG10]

I have that scope in the MSR reticle and like it quite a bit, they are fairly portly at about 32 oz, but not extremely obese. I swap it back and forth on a 6cm and a 30-06 has never failed.It does have to go back to S&B to get the small particles cleaned out but no biggie. I think it is 4 or 5 years old had it on a 22lr for a while dialed it a lot no issues.If you like it get one, they seem to work .

 

[jeffl838]

What reticle? That's a steal for a 3-20 Ultra short. Where's this deal at?

Capped windage is commonplace for these military scopes.

The 3-20 ultra short will shoot to 1500m just fine, but you would probably be happier with more mag if it's not a hunting/fighting rifle.

 

[Krob95]

I’ve been behind both a 3-20 and 5-20 ultra short and they’re both awesome pieces of glass man. If you can get a good deal on the 3-20 US, do it!

 

[Biscuits]

What reticle? That's a steal for a 3-20 Ultra short. Where's this deal at?

Capped windage is commonplace for these military scopes.

The 3-20 ultra short will shoot to 1500m just fine, but you would probably be happier with more mag if it's not a hunting/fighting rifle.

The reticle is the P4FL FFP which you can see on the reticle tab in the link in OP. You can see the bit which has the illumination on that page too... it is only the tiny central cross hair and the illumination on it is only just barely visible in full daylight. You won't be using it as a pseudo red dot sight, that's for sure.

Opticswarehouse.co.uk have both the open box new and mounted but good condition. They are showing GBP1795 for the used ones and over £2k for the new open box ones, but there are a few others around for a flat £2k for the open boxes elsewhere.

I guess my question is also for GBP 2k, is there anything else I should be thinking of? My more ideal optic would be a 5-25x56 with a daylight visible illuminated reticle. But this S&B scope isn't far off the ideal and at the high end 20x vs 25x isn't that much of a difference. I'm more interested in how far I could out see a 6.5 Creedmore splash with a 20x optic as self-spotting is important to me. I don't really self spot with my 308 because the recoil always moves my sight picture for me.

I had a try of a borrowed 6.5 Creedmore (ok it was also a heavier rifle than my .308) and I could keep the scope on target after firing and self-spot no problem. That was only 950 metres though, so don't know how self-spotting with the splash of a relatively light 6.5 bullet would go further out.

 

[R.Walters]

I have that scope in the MSR reticle and like it quite a bit, they are fairly portly at about 32 oz, but not extremely obese. I swap it back and forth on a 6cm and a 30-06 has never failed.It does have to go back to S&B to get the small particles cleaned out but no biggie. I think it is 4 or 5 years old had it on a 22lr for a while dialed it a lot no issues.If you like it get one, they seem to work .

Best way to get the particles “out” is un mount the scope. And smack the objective on a phone book a couple of times yes I am being serious

 

[Glassaholic]

Unless the UK has no mirage it’s doubtful you’ll be going much above 20x at distance anyway. I’ve shot at 1500m with 15-18x no issues. That is a great deal on a fantastic scope, the P4FL is a great reticle even though it is an older design.

It is misleading to think that to shoot at distance you need more magnification because when you’re dealing with atmospheric conditions that can distort the target you’re exacerbating the problem by magnifying it.

Is the 5-25 better optically, yes, but is it enough better to justify the additional cost? That is something you have to decide

 

[usmc45]

Hell, for that price id pick up another one and have it shipped across the pond........link?

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have a 3-20×50US and a 5-20×50US on hunting rifles. Both with H2CMR reticle. Great scopes.

 

[308Gunner]

I can spot impacts at 1345 with my Kahles 3-18 so shouldn’t be a problem with the S&B. That is a damn good deal and as stated above most of the time I am below 20 when shooting my Gen2 Razor

 

[Lazlo]

S&B updated this scope for the "DT II+" turrets recently. If the elevation turrets look short like the 5-20US, they are the older variety. If they're taller, it's the new one. Difference is the MTC (More Tactile Clicks) are discernible at every 5th click, and there is a rotating device on the outside of the turret that locks it, along with a color indicator.

It's nice and all, but not worth the difference in price you're talking about.

I bought one with the newer turrets with the MSR2 reticle for a hunting and LR rifle and have been very pleased. It's comparable to my 5x25, and while I haven't run it to 1,500M, it should get the job done.

I say buy it. If it's not suitable you can sell it at a very minimal loss.

 

[Bcera]

Looking into to scope or the 5x20
Ultra short. In for the info.