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Rifle Scopes ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

#2
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

Do you mind if I ask does it matter if it has it? I have a S&B 5-25x56 PMII with illumination but I keep it turned off. Why not just get one with illumination and keep it off?

Will probably be easier to resale too. Not that illumination really matters for 99% of the shooting most of us do, but it is another check on the feature list.
 
#4
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

JC call the S&B service center on Monday. I believe they can take off the illumination knob or possibly you can order one without it installed.
 
#6
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you mind if I ask does it matter if it has it? I have a S&B 5-25x56 PMII with illumination but I keep it turned off. Why not just get one with illumination and keep it off?

Will probably be easier to resale too. Not that illumination really matters for 99% of the shooting most of us do, but it is another check on the feature list. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">DamnYuppie</span></span> -

The problem is that the Illumination Control's block/"saddle" is on the Main Tube just forward of the Magnification Ring, and the Illumination Knob protrudes quite a bit from the left side of the Tube. As such it usually interferes with bolt operation on LH bolt rifles - especially when the bolt handle is shortened when a "tactical" bolt knob is installed (just about all bolt knob installations shorten the OAL of the bolt handle).

Another caveat with the PMII's tube-mounted Illumination Control that is unrelated to bolt knob clearance is that the Illumination Control "saddle" takes up valuable tube real estate on the rear of the Tube where the Rear scope ring(s) might otherwise be positioned for optimal eye relief and/or proper/optimal ring spacing. This <span style="font-style: italic">can be</span> especially so when two-piece bases are used, although I haven't had any problems mounting PMII 5-25Xs' with proper eye relief and rings spacing on two-piece bases on centerfire and rimfire rifles.


Keith
 
#7
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know where I might be able to find one?

I see tons of illuminated models everywhere, do they even make a non-illuminated model? Thanks for your help, I'm a lefty, with a lefty bolt, if you were wondering. Thanks

Have a blessed day

Jake </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Jake</span></span>, unfortunately for anyone who shoots LH bolt rifles, thus far all PMII 5-25Xs' are LP (Lit / Parallax) models. So "NO", non-illuminated PMII 5-25Xs' don't exist. Depending upon the scope and ring combination, illuminated PMIIs' can work on LH rifles, but more often than not its' a non-starter. At best its' very close. After playing with and shooting my RH X-Ray 51 mounted with a PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR CCW, a friend of mine decided he had to have a LH X-Ray 51. However, he was (rightfully) concerned about bolt handle clearance. I mounted my "spare" PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR CCW on his LH X-Ray 51, and with optimal eye-relief for him theres' about 1/8" clearance between the front of the bolt knob and the rear of the illumination knob with the bolt unlocked and fully forward. More clearance than most but still not a ton of room so he opted for a Premier 5-25X DT MTC Gen 2 XR. He still wants a PMII on his X-Ray 51 though.


Keith
 
#8
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JC call the S&B service center on Monday. I believe they can take off the illumination knob or possibly you can order one without it installed. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I will try that, thank you sir! </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span></span> and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">jcvibby</span></span> -

If what I was told by Mark Cromwell <span style="font-style: italic">(S & B USA, Inc. President)</span> about PMII construction is true, its' not that simple. According to Mark, the Illumination "saddle" on all illuminated PMIIs' is machined as part of the Main Tube. Therefore, until S & B starts machining new Maintubes without the Illumination Control "saddle" at the rear of the Tube you cannot order a PMII 5-25X without illumination. Even if you could special order a PMII 5-25X without the illumination electronics installed, the scope would still have a Main Tube that is machined to accept the Illumination Knob, and what would the sense in that be?

Maybe S & B will offer non-illuminated versions of the PMII 5-25X in the future. If S & B decided to offer a non-illuminated PMII 5-25X, they might start by machining a new Main Tube without a block/"saddle" for the Illumination Control. Obviously this would be great for shooters' of LH bolt rifles who want PMII 5-25Xs'. Then, maybe down the road S & B could move the illumination control to the Parallax Knob (a la Premier).


Keith
 
#11
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah I did some more research and you are right keith, I will not be able to do that. Bummer as I really wanted one.[

Well now what??? What should I have my eye on now? </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">KYS338</span></span> suggested <span style="font-style: italic">"Premier Heritage or Hensoldt if you want to stay in the upper echelon of quality glass"</span>, and I tend to agree. The Hensoldt line is very limited in terms of available reticles', so you may or may not find Hensoldt works for your shooting activities.

March is making tactical scopes now, and I like their 2.5-25X MIL/MIL scope - it has nice image quality, turrets seem positive, and is very compact. I've only seen them at SHOT and on a Tac Ops rifle once - never shot with one so I don't know how well the turrets track or how well they hold up under a lot of use.


Keith
 
#13
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a S&B 4-16 with no illumination, according to their catalog. </div></div>
Yes you can. You can also get a couple of PMII 3-12X 50 models without illumination, but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">jcvibby</span></span> (the OP), specifically asked about a PMII 5-25X (56).


Keith
 
#14
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

Jcvibby if you have some one local who can let you try to mount one on your rifle I would try. Im a lefty and mine works for me. Im using a LH Stiller Tac-30. It also works for another lefty I shoot with. Its not for every lefty but it can work. I have plenty of clearance on mine as well.
 
#15
Re: ** S&B 5-25x56 PMII with NO Illumination????

I'm in the same boat. I would love a non illuminated 5-25x56. I hope they offer one within the next year or so if not I'll probably go with a 4-16 or a Premier??
 
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