Rifle Scopes S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

[bm11]

Firstoff, I would like to apologize for adding another "this vs that" scope thread to the hundreds of them that are already here! This one is a bit different, however, in that I am not in the market for one of the two scopes. I am actually in the opposite position- I currently own both of them and am trying to figure out which to sell.

As a bit of a background- I am determining which scope to keep for my AX. It might also serve as a good reference between the two scopes for anyone considering purchasing a top tier optic, as it will bring about my own observances about the two scopes after experience with both. I can say up front that this thread only came about because they are both so fantastic that I am having a hard time making a decision, and only selling one because the alternative is buying a rifle to mount it on! (Still a possibility, the only reason I am leaning otherwise is because I made a resolution to shoot just one rifle and get truly proficient with it.)

The two scopes in question, getting into detail here, are a Hensoldt 4-16x56ff mildot, and a Schmidt and Bender PM2 5-25x56 Gen 2 XR clockwise.

My observations:
Hensoldt:

Reticle is usable at all magnification ranges

2.3 inches shorter than the Schmidt and Bender

6 ounces lighter

Eyebox is easier to get behind, certainly is better for positional shooting

Thicker reticle makes it harder (for me) to shoot smaller targets. I don't notice it when banging steel at long ranges, but I do when running dot drills, etc.

Schmidt and Bender
Reticle is much easier to shoot small targets with

Reticle is much better for ranging targets and holding for wind, with .5 mil hashes.

Resolution is better to my eye.

Extra magnification allows scope to be used as a spotter.

10m parallax is great for practice in the house

Thinner reticle is a little tougher to see at lower magnifications.

HUGE size is a negative.

So there it is! I know that having both a S&B and a Hensoldt isn't a huge problem to have, I'm just having a hard time making a decision! Interested in hearing input from others who have used either or both.

Probably going to have to go to the range with both, and use both in the same session. If I still can't decide, the Hensoldt is going on a GAP-10, haha!

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

You know what I recommend.

Good luck either way.

Take care.

 

[bward]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Combine the best of both worlds and get a Henny with the NH1. You get all of the advantages of the Hensoldt with a reticle I feel is very effective for shooting steel.

 

[brand692]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I bet if you had the NH1 you wouldn't be second guessing. It is way better than the MilDot. Open center makes it easy to do the dot drill. Plus its thick enough to use in low light against a busy background.

That being said, I'm on the fence right now with Hensoldt. I'm giving them one last chance. But where I sit right now, if I had your "problem," I'd likely keep the Schmidt.

 

[Mute]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably going to have to go to the range with both, and use both in the same session. If I still can't decide, the Hensoldt is going on a GAP-10, haha! </div></div>

I believe this is the correct answer.

 

[steve123]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

That is a tough decision!

I've owned neither but been behind both more than a few times.I agree with you on all points especially the 10Y parallax.Right now in life I'd take the S&B even though it's a pig.Mostly because of the extra mag.I'd sure like to get behind the new March to compare.Truth is,I like smaller lighter scopes but want more mag sometimes.

 

[Rob01]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I never understand why people think of the scope length as a negative. If the scope isn't hanging over the muzzle then what does it matter how long it is? The barrel is longer so it's not like the scope is hitting anything. I have a 2" sunshade on my 5-25 and it's no problem on any rifle I own including a 20" POF. I'm not saying this to have anything to do with the S&B vs Hen discussion but just a question in general. I see this come up all the time. I can see weight if someone is trying to keep a rifle light but length?

 

[brand692]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

In most circumstances, it is a preference thing I think. There are some circumstances where the length may come into play, ie someone using a UNS.

I've had a couple 5-25 USOs. They are nothing shy of a baseball bat. If you rock the sunshade and flip ups, they can be nearly two feet long.

Still shorter than a barrel, well most anyways. But for me that is just too big and bulky. Granted, the SuB isn't as bad, but still, the compact size of the Hensoldt is a nice feature, for me. Falls right along with the need for lighted reticles, zero stops, etc. A whole bunch of "wants" and not too many "needs."

 

[dpreston]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I have a P4F and an NH-1. The hensoldt is really nice, but my vote is to stick with the S&B because of the magnification and finer reticle. Like Rob said, the length doesn't bother me. Once you get into scopes that heavy, 6 ounces doesn't mean anything. And the glass is great on both of them.

 

[goober]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know what I recommend.

Good luck either way.

Take care. </div></div>
haha well said -It will really come down to which ever flicks your switches at the end of the day -I run S&b 5x 25 and just love it but would sure be happy with the Hensoldt Im sure .
The issue of weight could be come into it depending if your going to be more upright than prone , the little things that matter. Why not 4-16 s&b given your going for the same magnification in the Hensoldt?

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

You never described what you would use the single scope for, other than mounting it on an AX. I have both scopes too and find that 25x is more useful for long range shooting (beyond, say, 800 yards) or for precision targets when you need to see details. If your AX will be shooting steel targets with 308Win from 100 yards out to 1kyd, then it doesn't really matter; but if you're going beyond 1kyd or shooting precision targets, then go for the S&B with the higher magnification and more precise reticle.

 

[JRose]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never understand why people think of the scope length as a negative. If the scope isn't hanging over the muzzle then what does it matter how long it is? The barrel is longer so it's not like the scope is hitting anything. I have a 2" sunshade on my 5-25 and it's no problem on any rifle I own including a 20" POF. I'm not saying this to have anything to do with the S&B vs Hen discussion but just a question in general. I see this come up all the time. I can see weight if someone is trying to keep a rifle light but length? </div></div>


It's literally the only time you'll hear a man bitch about it being "too long"....

 

[Rob01]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

LOL You got that right J.

 

[PK_IN_KC]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I have a 5-25x56 p4f and love it. I have looked through a Hensoldt 4-16x56 and thought it was a great scope but realized very quickly that I like more magnification.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never understand why people think of the scope length as a negative.</div></div>

Gee Rob, don't you realize that shorter scopes LOOK so much cooler. That should be reason enough to own one...

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know what I recommend.

Good luck either way.

Take care. </div></div>Right on.

For everyone else in the thread- I traded Mo_Zam_Beek a 5-25x56 pm2 (P4f) for my current Hensoldt, so I definitely already know they way he would go!

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You never described what you would use the single scope for, other than mounting it on an AX. I have both scopes too and find that 25x is more useful for long range shooting (beyond, say, 800 yards) or for precision targets when you need to see details. If your AX will be shooting steel targets with 308Win from 100 yards out to 1kyd, then it doesn't really matter; but if you're going beyond 1kyd or shooting precision targets, then go for the S&B with the higher magnification and more precise reticle. </div></div>Yes, AX in .308 (and a .260/.243 once I figure out which way I want to go) from 100 yards on out to however far I want to shoot it. Generally max out at 930 or so, but have gone as far as 1075. It is definitely not an ELR rig, if it were, there would be no question.

At longer ranges, I don't really feel like the difference between 25x and 16x makes a whole lot of difference in shooting, but I definitely prefer it for spotting, etc.

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know what I recommend.

Good luck either way.

Take care. </div></div>
haha well said -It will really come down to which ever flicks your switches at the end of the day -I run S&b 5x 25 and just love it but would sure be happy with the Hensoldt Im sure .
The issue of weight could be come into it depending if your going to be more upright than prone , the little things that matter. Why not 4-16 s&b given your going for the same magnification in the Hensoldt? </div></div>I'm not in the market for a new scope. I already own both of these. I have had a S&B 4-16 in the past, and I do prefer the Hensoldt to it.

If I were going to BUY another scope, I'd probably hold out the supposed month or so more and buy a PM2 3-20x50.

 

[psinclair]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I've got both of those scopes too...cant say anything bad about either..keep them!

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got both of those scopes too...cant say anything bad about either..keep them! </div></div>You are a lot of help! Haha, I know, I keep leaning towards the "buy another gun to mount the scope on" idea.

 

[shibby575]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got both of those scopes too...cant say anything bad about either..keep them! </div></div>You are a lot of help! Haha, I know, I keep leaning towards the "buy another gun to mount the scope on" idea. </div></div>

I think the same way. You'll eventually get something else that this can sit on. Generally I'm the other way. Too many sticks, not enough glass.

 

[Mr Flannel]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Is it the case that a longer scope may potentially be heavier and move the balance point of the rifle towards the muzzle? Anything that makes it front-heavier might be worth considering, especially for unsupported/hasty shooting. The S*B 5-25x is a heavy bunger. Just saying...

Could also pump some more iron, I guess.

 

[Rob01]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I guess I don't notice the extra 6 ounces of the 5-25 with my 28" MTU profile barrel.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Only time i notice something is 6 ounces lighter is when my beer is only half full!!!

For fuck sake witht the amount of shit we pack around and the overall weight of the rifle 6 ounces isn't shit in the scheme of things. If your really concerned about it make the barrel 1" shorter and that will more than make up for it.

 

[hexades1]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Hensoldt is shorter and lighter but has less elevation and magnification. Also the elevation turret has four rotations. So you can be off quite a bit on longer ranges. DT on S&B PMII is much easier to use. Idiotproof is a good word for it.

With MSR reticle PMII 5-25X56 is very good. Of course it is way too much on a 308 semiauto but very good on a 338LM or similar setups. Weight difference is actually not that much. The difference could be compensated with alloy 34mm rings if needed.

I have owned a NF 5.5-22X56 BR and used sunshade with it. That was a bit too long AND fragile as it had AO. 5-25X56 S&B is shorter and much more robust.

Hensoldt is quality gear too and my pick would be 3-12X FFP -version if I would buy one for my use. Because I already have a 3-12X50 PMII DT L/P I am not going to buy a Hensoldt any time soon.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

TA, for real sniper use how often do you use 3X on a bolt action rifle?

Is there any detriment in using a scope that zooms down to 4X but with a godd field of view like the Hensoldt?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ut755ln]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

I am going through the same decision process right now and actually have some of the same minor gripes. I say minor gripes because both scopes are absolutely fantastic.

So to complicate things, I am on the waiting list for the 3x20 S&B PMII with the H2CMR reticle.

 

[bward]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

The 4-16 Hensoldt does not have 4 revolutions on the elevation turret, it has 2.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So to complicate things, I am on the waiting list for the 3x20 S&B PMII with the H2CMR reticle.</div></div>

I can tell you from having a h2cmr if the 3-20 really does do away with the tunneling that is going to be the best scope on the market in my humble opinion. possibly the only one i would trade my 5-25 h2cmr for.

I hate to say this but i have handled both s&b and hensoldt and i wouldn't even consider keeping the henny over the s&b. the only way i would consider buying a hensoldt is if it had nh1 and was less expensive than the s&b. Not that they aren't great scopes because they are, they just don't have the features i need/want in a scope of that dollar amount (more subtensions in reticle and 20x on top end min. for spotting)

just my .02cents and some say its not worth that.

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

So many good points! I'm going to take both to the range on Thursday. If I still can't decide, then GAP is getting a call.

 

[Rob01]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can tell you from having a h2cmr if the 3-20 really does do away with the tunneling that is going to be the best scope on the market in my humble opinion. possibly the only one i would trade my 5-25 h2cmr for.

</div></div>

The 3-20x S&B has no tunneling.

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

*it should be noted that most likely I will be picking up a 3-20 when they come out too.

 

[jasonk]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

It's no secret that I typically shoot a Hensoldt, but I played with Team Send It's 5-25 S&B w/ h2cmr at the Norcal TBRC, it's a nice scope too.

Once you're into the upper tier, it doesn't really matter, if people spent half the amount of time shooting that they do arguing what gear is best.......well you know.

 

[jbell]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

My vote is for the Bender, however you could keep both. That way they both could be in rings ready to go already zeroed and then you will have one pimp of a back up scope in your already hefty bag. Just incase one takes a dump!

One other way of looking at it is if you only had one would you trade it for the other. Looking at it like that may just provide you with the solution ... or call GAP b/c I would like to shoot that new AR they have out!

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.

Once you're into the upper tier, it doesn't really matter, if people spent half the amount of time shooting that they do arguing what gear is best.......well you know. </div></div>Haha, I follow you. I love both, and have spent plenty of time behind both. I tend to shoot 3-400 rounds per month through the rig this is on, so it isn't like I'm not shooting, but I see where you are going with this. (cough... HENSOLDT... cough)

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My vote is for the Bender, however you could keep both. That way they both could be in rings ready to go already zeroed and then you will have one pimp of a back up scope in your already hefty bag. Just incase one takes a dump!

One other way of looking at it is if you only had one would you trade it for the other. Looking at it like that may just provide you with the solution ... or call GAP b/c I would like to shoot that new AR they have out! </div></div>Hah- I already knew which way you would vote (JBell is my shooting partner) but a $3400 optic as a "backup" for the 1 in a million that my Bender will fail... seems excessive.

 

[jbell]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

So its been over 24 hours now what did you end up doing?

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So its been over 24 hours now what did you end up doing? </div></div>You are such a dick! Actually, I stuck to my plan. I mounted the Hensoldt back in the 45 moa AI mount, and am planning on heading to the range tomorrow with both scopes and a torque wrench.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Bobbay! I have both of these too and agree with your observations completely. To me, that means comparing the two is a bit of apples to oranges. That being said, I'm definitely keeping the Schmidt on the AW and the Henny's home is on a shorter, lighter 260. Seems like a perfect fit.

Everyone should have such problems.

Good luck!

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KIMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone should have such problems.

</div></div>That much is certainly true!

 

[bm11]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Well, my decision has been made.

I took both to the range yesterday. Here is what I came up with, by category:

Size/weight: obviously the Hensoldt wins.

Shooting on lower power: the Hensoldt wins, marginally. The reticle is easier by a bit, but the thin reticle in the Gen 2 XR reticle is still usable.

Turrets: I prefer the way the lines line up on the Hensoldt and the way the clicks feel.

Clarity: Both are superb. The Schmidt and Bender was able to pick up more detail (on equal mag setting) though.

Field of view- the Hensold beats the Schmidt at 6x (tunneling,) and only gets better down to 4x.

Usable mag range: The Bender wins. I don't really shoot below 10x much, and the reticle is still very usable at 8x. But I really like the 25x for shooting really small targets. I was able to resolve and quarter a half inch shoot and see at 230 yards, could see it with the Hensoldt but was entirely impossible to quarter it, as the reticle covered the whole thing (at least to my eye.)

Reticle: Bender wins by a mile. The thicker reticle was better for shooting at low mag on the Hensoldt, but the thin reticle never proved to be "too thin," and the half mil holds worked so much better. I shot a few "groups" by dialing say 2.5 mils right and holding 2.5 mils right, then dialing something different and using the corresponding hold, all on the same target. The "groups" I was able to achieve were SO much better with the Bender. Tracking was perfect with both scopes, the holds were just easier/more precise with the Gen 2 XR reticle.

Eyebox: A bit better on the Hensoldt (shocking to observe for the first time) but so good on the 'Bender that it doesn't matter.

Parallax: Both adjust well, but the 10m minimum parallax on the Bender (50m on the Hensoldt) wins.


Conclusion: The Bender is the better scope for me. It is mostly in the reticle, and the NH1 would certainly help, but in the end, both scopes were so good that you really can't lose. I was SO tempted to order a rifle for the Hensoldt, but in the end, that would be counter productive to my goals. So I sold it!

Thanks for all your time, and in closing, a picture:

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: S&B 5-25x56 vs Hensoldt 4-16x56ff

Snif snif, sad to see it go, even from here....