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Rifle Scopes S&B price increase

#2
Re: S&B price increase

Eric I would say to you and any other shooter to let them know with calls or emails about not being happy. Don't do it on the boards. I have already made my feeling known.
 
#4
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eric I would say to you and any other shooter to let them know with calls or emails about not being happy. Don't do it on the boards. I have already made my feeling known. </div></div>

There are at least a hundred other recent threads on the boards about people unhappy with companies, why should S&B be spared the same? Whether it's the customer service experience with AAC, the copying of USA products by Midway or the price increase of S&B it's all relevant and worthy of discussion if done in the right way.

My only thought when I heard the S&B 1-8 was going from $2600 to $3600 (not sure where the real number will end up) was that apparently Leupold was right and the 1-8 will command that....and Situnga will be very disappointed to hear this news.
 
#5
Re: S&B price increase

sounds like its more to due with the value of the dollar than anything and the situation our country has itself in and s&b adjusting pricing to keep up

maybe if the dollar strenghens again prices will change


its not like they arent selling, finding an instock 5-25 is about impossible with the new reticles

i would expect similar news from Lapua and other imported products
 
#6
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There are at least a hundred other recent threads on the boards about people unhappy with companies, why should S&B be spared the same? Whether it's the customer service experience with AAC, the copying of USA products by Midway or the price increase of S&B it's all relevant and worthy of discussion if done in the right way.

</div></div>

I wasn't saying don't post about it but that posting about it here really won't do anything as they rarely read the boards. Go right to the source instead of complaining on the forums. Let the S&B decision makers know that you aren't happy about it. That's what will make it change as it appears it already has.

Don't try and make my post out for something it's not.
 
#7
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wasn't saying don't post about it but that posting about it here really won't do anything as they rarely read the boards. Go right to the source instead of complaining on the forums. Let the S&B decision makers know that you aren't happy about it. That's what will make it change as it appears it already has.

Don't try and make my post out for something it's not.</div></div>

I apologize if I read something into that wasn't there. I do agree that bitching on the internet only makes you feel better and the real way to get change is to pickup the phone or send an email. S&B is busy, I'm sure they don't check the hide for their marketing ideas, they do listen to their customers though.

I don't know where the prices will really end up, I hope they come down a little from what I initially heard, this sport was expensive enough to begin with 4 years ago
smile.gif
I knew I should have taken up fly fishing!
 
#8
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wasn't saying don't post about it but that posting about it here really won't do anything as they rarely read the boards. Go right to the source instead of complaining on the forums. Let the S&B decision makers know that you aren't happy about it. That's what will make it change as it appears it already has.

Don't try and make my post out for something it's not.</div></div>

I apologize if I read something into that wasn't there. I do agree that bitching on the internet only makes you feel better and the real way to get change is to pickup the phone or send an email. S&B is busy, I'm sure they don't check the hide for their marketing ideas, they do listen to their customers though.

I don't know where the prices will really end up, I hope they come down a little from what I initially heard, this sport was expensive enough to begin with 4 years ago
smile.gif
I knew I should have taken up fly fishing! </div></div>

That is pretty sad on S&B's part considering that a good bit of their business is probably being generated from this forum....
 
#9
Re: S&B price increase

I removed it because I was ranting reagrding the 2008 price increase saying how weak the dollar was. I thought the link was posted recently and the reason for the current price increase.

I've yet to find any public explanation for the current price increase.

I would have left it up, if I wasn't 4 years late to bitch.

Eric
 
#10
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sounds like its more to due with the value of the dollar than anything and the situation our country has itself in and s&b adjusting pricing to keep up

maybe if the dollar strenghens again prices will change</div></div>You know, my other hobby ran into this same problem (european products, declining dollar value) and they use the same excuse to exorbitantly raise prices. Once the USD increased, guess what? They never lowered prices. I doubt S&B will lower prices even if the USD makes a comeback. They'll just raise the Euro price citing "increased production costs".

But hey, that's capitalism. We can always stop buying S&B and buy something else....once S&B sees a hit in sales, they might reconsider their pricing structure.
 
#14
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fist week of Jan 2007 and 1 euro bought you $1.30, First week of Jan 2012 1 euro bought you $1.30. </div></div>

That may be true but the overall condition and the very future of the Euro is a different story. That being said, I agree that there are better values for very good glass minus the S&B price tag. The sooner we decouple our economies from the Eurozone the better.
 
#17
Re: S&B price increase

Have they gone up from the ~3200 the 5-25x56 was priced at before? I can still Google-Fu and find them for that price. Or is it the lower powered scopes?

I see where the new fancy-pants tan scopes and fancy reticle scopes (horus) are more, but other than that I don't see a base-price increase.
 
#18
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have they gone up from the ~3200 the 5-25x56 was priced at before? I can still Google-Fu and find them for that price. Or is it the lower powered scopes?

I see where the new fancy-pants tan scopes and fancy reticle scopes (horus) are more, but other than that I don't see a base-price increase. </div></div>

It will become official right around SHOT Show time. They are going to try and capitalize on the release of their new 3-20 model....
 
#20
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has a scope maker ever priced themselves out of the market that their in...?</div></div>
Didn't Leupold do that at one point?
 
#21
Re: S&B price increase

I'd suggest directing anger at Bernanke and the other grifters in Washington who are killing the US Dollar. S&B scopes, like most other products, are holding steady in price or declining slightly when priced in real money.

—Andreas
 
#22
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Andreas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd suggest directing anger at Bernanke and the other grifters in Washington who are killing the US Dollar. S&B scopes, like most other products, are holding steady in price or declining slightly when priced in real money.

—Andreas </div></div>

If you have any Military Pals based overseas you can pick one up cheaper, all they would have to do is pick up a VAT form so they don't get hit with the 17% tax. I would do it quick before the Euro gets stronger.
 
#23
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Andreas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> S&B scopes, like most other products, are holding steady in price or declining slightly when priced in real money.

—Andreas </div></div>

I don't think the majority of consumers got a 12% raise this yr
wink.gif
 
#24
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Andreas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd suggest directing anger at Bernanke and the other grifters in Washington who are killing the US Dollar. S&B scopes, like most other products, are holding steady in price or declining slightly when priced in real money.

—Andreas </div></div>

If you have any Military Pals based overseas you can pick one up cheaper, all they would have to do is pick up a VAT form so they don't get hit with the 17% tax. I would do it quick before the Euro gets stronger. </div></div>

17% is in the UK, which is not a Euro currency country, it's Sterling or GBP. The rate compared to the Euro is worse for the dollar.

The Euro is not likely to go up against the dollar. If anything, for 2012, the dollar is probably going to rise.

To paraphrase Mark Twain, "The news of my demise is greatly exaggerated" The US Dollar....
 
#25
Re: S&B price increase

Your right Germany has a VAT at 19%. Anyhow here is more information: http://www.wiesbaden.army.mil/sites/mwr/value_added_tax_offices.asp

Just doing quick math in my Head, using the Current exchange rates and with the vat break, shipping, a person would be looking at approx $2850 USD for a 5-25X56.

The 1-8X24 shortdot would be $1900..Looks like I am making some calls tonight..
 
#26
Re: S&B price increase

You guys (including S&B) that keep saying that the Euro is going UP against the dollar; I'd love to see where you're getting your data. Everything I see shows the opposite happening, with futures showing even worse for the Euro.

I'm confused.
 
#27
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your right Germany has a VAT at 19%. Anyhow here is more information: http://www.wiesbaden.army.mil/sites/mwr/value_added_tax_offices.asp

Just doing quick math in my Head, using the Current exchange rates and with the vat break, shipping, a person would be looking at approx $2850 USD for a 5-25X56.

The 1-8X24 shortdot would be $1900..Looks like I am making some calls tonight.. </div></div>

you may get a nasty surprise from US Customs (or rather your buddy bringing the scope over for you).
 
#28
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sounds like its more to due with the value of the dollar than anything and the situation our country has itself in and s&b adjusting pricing to keep up

maybe if the dollar strenghens again prices will change


its not like they arent selling, finding an instock 5-25 is about impossible with the new reticles

i would expect similar news from Lapua and other imported products

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Andreas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd suggest directing anger at Bernanke and the other grifters in Washington who are killing the US Dollar. S&B scopes, like most other products, are holding steady in price or declining slightly when priced in real money.

—Andreas </div></div>

In the last 9 months the dollar has actually appreciated in value against the Euro by 10%, which means European made goods should be getting cheaper. Back in May last year 1 Euro = $1.40, today 1 Euro = $1.30. Some analyst are predicting a further decline in the value of the Euro in 2012, to 1 Euro = $1.20 level, as Europe sinks further into recession. This would mean a 20% rise for our dollar, making S&B's proposed price increase seem even more expensive.

While currency differences don't paint the entire picture it does seem like a strange time to be raising prices by such a substantial amount (38% to be exact!!). Furthermore, it's interesting to note that they are not significantly increasing the prices on their hunting line of scopes. While a substantial price increase might make good financial sense given the market demand and trend for their tactical scopes there is a strong whiff of customer price gouging.
 
#29
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My only thought when I heard the S&B 1-8 was going from $2600 to $3600 (not sure where the real number will end up) was that apparently Leupold was right and the 1-8 will command that....and Situnga will be very disappointed to hear this news. </div></div>

Quite honestly I don't see how any scope maker can demand this price point for a 1-8 or a 1-10. They are all cuckoo. Just look at the number of secondhand CQBSSs that have languished in the classifieds on this board and others in the last 6 months. While scope makers like S&B rely on the military/leos they have to remember that this money is also starting to dry up. Just how do you justify to the taxpayer putting a $4000 scope on an assault rifle that's going to get lost in the desert or some place?

While a few scope makers are racing to see what new heights they can charge for their scopes, they forget that the technology can be duplicated.

Maybe I'll just stick with my NF2.5-10x24 and RMR offset. At least if one breaks I have have an immediate back-up, and I bet I can shoot this dual sighting system just as fast or even faster than a short-dot.
 
#30
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I wasn't saying don't post about it but that posting about it here really won't do anything as they rarely read the boards. Go right to the source instead of complaining on the forums. Let the S&B decision makers know that you aren't happy about it. That's what will make it change as it appears it already has.

Don't try and make my post out for something it's not. </div></div>

Phone call made and email sent. The person at S&B here suggested I contact S&B's CEO in Germany and gave me his email address.

For those that want to follow up email: [email protected] and cc: [email protected]
 
#32
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My only thought when I heard the S&B 1-8 was going from $2600 to $3600 (not sure where the real number will end up) was that apparently Leupold was right and the 1-8 will command that....and Situnga will be very disappointed to hear this news. </div></div>

Quite honestly I don't see how any scope maker can demand this price point for a 1-8 or a 1-10. They are all cuckoo. Just look at the number of secondhand CQBSSs that have languished in the classifieds on this board and others in the last 6 months. While scope makers like S&B rely on the military/leos they have to remember that this money is also starting to dry up. Just how do you justify to the taxpayer putting a $4000 scope on an assault rifle that's going to get lost in the desert or some place?

While a few scope makers are racing to see what new heights they can charge for their scopes, they forget that the technology can be duplicated.

Maybe I'll just stick with my NF2.5-10x24 and RMR offset. At least if one breaks I have have an immediate back-up, and I bet I can shoot this dual sighting system just as fast or even faster than a short-dot. </div></div>

From my understanding with talking to Paul at Premiers is that the 1-8 scopes (all manufacturers) take a lot of work to build. I think the conversation ending up with Paul saying that he would rather have his nuts clamped into a vise rather then build one of those scopes. It takes over 10+ hours to build just 1 with all the parts there.
 
#33
Re: S&B price increase

Dare I say it, but at $1900 Leupold's new 34mm tubed Mark 6 1-6x20, or Swaro's 1-6 Zi at $2200 are starting to look quite attractive.
 
#36
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cross C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So do we know yet if its 10% or 20% or what ???

What could be a more pleasant time to release the news of a price increase than shot show. </div></div>

Actually it looks like SWFA has new prices up.
 
#37
Re: S&B price increase

Yes we know what the increase is. Jay updated everything on our site today I believe.

I do think that they shouldn't go so long doing a price increase. I think the last was 2008? It would hurt less if they would do like most in the industry. Would make the pill easier to swallow.
 
#38
Re: S&B price increase

Once a year for price increases is the best approach to take. What stinks is that the 1-8 Short-Dot was unveiled last year at Shot and not released. The published price of $2600 has been in the public domain since then and now we're being told we've got to pay an extra grand for the privilege of waiting. What are S&B telling their customers who have preordered, are they getting it at the original listed price? It's a great strategy, all those S&B aficionados have patiently waited while all along they could have lined up for a CQBSS. What a complete cluster f*&k!

Furthermore, all those people who sold their 1.1-4 Short-Dots early in anticipation of the 1-8's release are out of pocket by quite a substantial amount and must be feeling more than very pissed. Some of these went for as little as $1800 on the hide. Today given the new $2700 price tag a seller will now be able to get what he or she originally paid for one of these.

Someone at S&B really messed up here. This will go down as a lesson in how not to launch a product and how to piss off some of your most loyal customers.

Leupold's CQBSS is now looking very attractive.
 
#39
Re: S&B price increase

I e-mailed the addy and cc listed above and here is what I got back.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Dear Mr _________,





Thank you for your interest in buying the 3-20x50 PMII scope of Schmidt & Bender. We know that it has been a long time since we announced the scope to the market, and that precious customers have been patiently waiting all the time. We are extremely sorry, that the final delivery delayed for nearly two years, but first the many improvements of the product’s prototypes until they met our high expectations in superior quality and reliability took longer than expected, and then the spare parts delivery from our suppliers delayed for many weeks. But with the final result in hands, we are quite sure that this product meets your expectations: The 3-20x50 PMII scope has recently been successfully introduced in the German armed forces and the feedback from the customer is extremely positive.



Before explaining some backgrounds on the price increase, let me first correct the information:



The new price is actually 3499 $.



The original price was determined in the very first beginning of the project 3-20 which actually was more than 2 1/2 years ago. In the process of testing and prototyping, we decided to do many improvements on the scope to maximize the optical and mechanical performance while still maintaining the high power zoom and large internal elevation adjustment range. Also additional features and functions, like the new locking turrets, took time and are cost extensive to produce. Finally, in the last year all prices for spare parts increased highly and much more than during the last years, which makes the production of the scopes more expensive. All these reasons finally led to the price increase which does not intend to increase our profit but to cover the costs for this high-end product.



Despite the higher pricing, we still hope that you consider to buy our product. We are sure, that with every use of this lifetime lasting scope you will be reminded that you made the right decision for maximal joy and success in shooting.



If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me,



Sincerely yours,





Karlheinz Gerlach

-Managing Director-



Schmidt & Bender GmbH & Co. KG

Am Großacker 42

D-35444 Biebertal



phone direct +49-(0)6409-811514

cell +49-(0)151-58034860

mail [email protected]

phone +49-(0)6409-81150

fax +49-(0)6409-811511

web www.schmidt-bender.de

</div></div>
 
#40
Re: S&B price increase

Dagum. At $3200 I was considering buying a 5-25x56 P4F MOA reticle with MOA/MOA knobs with my March bonus. Now there is no way I'm dropping $3600 on it. I guess USO, Premier, and even IOR will now get a harder look from me.

3200 was just close enough to starting with a "2" to justify it. Now that it is closer to "4" there is no frickin' way. This really makes me sad.
 
#42
Re: S&B price increase

Here`s the response I got from S&B and the response I sent back:

---------------

Thank you for considering to buy our 1-8 Short Dot scope. The 1-8 Short Dot scope as our latest development in the high end range is not only unique in the market but also offers a broad variety of features which make the scope usable in different scenarios. The PM scope offers a splitted focal plane with the reticle in the front focal plane and a flash dot in the second focal plane, which enables the user to have a red dot sight and a scope for tactical short and medium range shooting in one product. The development, realization, improvement and optimization of this features, together with a superior optical quality and high power zoom range, started more nearly three years ago and took much longer than originally expected. The cost factor for the production not only of the highly tolerance spare parts, but also for the assembly of this highly sensitive but extremely shot-proof interior parts was extremely underestimated, when we set up the first pricing in the very beginning of the project. Also, the costs for the spare parts increased more than usual in the last year while at the same time the spare parts deliveries delayed. Therefore, the recent price increase of the 1-8x24 PM and Zenith scopes was does not intend to maximize our profit, but to cover the costs of this high end product.

We can assure you, that the 1-8x24 PM scope is worth buying, the recently performed tests by various professional customers have been extremely positive. But if you intend to buy a competitor’s scope instead, we suggest, that you take a look at the 1-8x24 Zenith scope as this might be a possible alternative in the hunting market products. The 1-8x24 Zenith offers not only our proven Flash Dot technology together with the reticle in the 2nd focal plane, but additional includes like the military version the cc mode which make the scope a red dot sight on close distances at 1x magnification. The price for the illuminated 1-8x24 Zenith is 3399$.

Despite the higher pricing, we still hope that you consider to buy our product. We are sure, that with every use of this lifetime lasting scope you will be reminded that you made the right decision for maximal joy and success in shooting.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me,


Sincerely yours,

Karlheinz Gerlach
-Managing Director-

------------------------

And here`s my reply:

Dear Mr. Gerlach,

Thanks for your response, and I apologise for my overly angry stance to your pricing announcement. However, I do feel S&B could have better managed the expectations of its customers, many of whom had pre-ordered the 1-8 based on the originally announced price. The original $2600 price has been out in the public domain for sometime, and nothing was done during the delay of its release, which has been more than a year, to rectify this. Furthermore, I think you'll find you have many customers who sold their 1.1-4 Short-Dots in anticipation of the 1-8's release, some of these were being sold for as little as $1800. These customers will also be extremely annoyed; given the new price of the 1.1-4 means that if they had held on and waited they would now be getting a price closer to what they paid for this scope new.
 
#45
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You gotta hand it to Mr. Gerlach. He's writing back some carefully considered replies and in a timely fashion. He's not hiding under a rock or passing off the reply to some underling to send you a canned email.

I can't help but like the guy.

Scott </div></div>

Agreed 100%
 
#46
Re: S&B price increase

He is a very nice gentleman. I have met him a couple of times at SHOT. I am glad he is handling the emails.
 
#47
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, the letter said it is increased to $3500, so its in the middle. With a LO discount, perhaps you could get it for your original amount.

</div></div>

Thanks for the mention, but the reality is we could not do HIDE10 on these unless we advertised well over MAP.

The times, they are a changing...
 
#48
Re: S&B price increase

I wonder where Leupold's new Mark 6 1-6x24 is going to leave S&B's new 1-8 and its $3500 price point?

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nKFLyOBgYBg"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nKFLyOBgYBg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#49
Re: S&B price increase

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder where Leupold's new Mark 6 1-6x24 is going to leave S&B's new 1-8 and its $3500 price point?
</div></div>

Interesting - thanks for posting that.
 
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