saiga vs mini 14
- Thread starter sniper81
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Re: saiga vs mini 14
I have no experience with the Saiga, but have a Mini-14 Ranch. It will only hold 3-4MOA at 100. So far all I've ran through it are 55gr FMJ's. Am working on a barrel strut, and looking at a flash suppressor/brake for it, maybe some heavier rounds. These are supposed to tighten up the grouping a bit. I love my Mini for what it is, a solid reliable platform capable of hitting body sized targets to 300. Will probably hear something from the AR guy's regarding accuracy, but it is what it is, I don't argue it. Just my opinion.
Eric
I have no experience with the Saiga, but have a Mini-14 Ranch. It will only hold 3-4MOA at 100. So far all I've ran through it are 55gr FMJ's. Am working on a barrel strut, and looking at a flash suppressor/brake for it, maybe some heavier rounds. These are supposed to tighten up the grouping a bit. I love my Mini for what it is, a solid reliable platform capable of hitting body sized targets to 300. Will probably hear something from the AR guy's regarding accuracy, but it is what it is, I don't argue it. Just my opinion.
Eric
Re: saiga vs mini 14
I would take the saiga have had a barrel full of mini 14 and the word bland comes to mind. But lots of ranchers like to carry them in there trucks and LE in there trucks I have never had a mini 14 that shot better than 2 inch group at 100 yards I dont care fore the sights on the mini all me are used to rifles in one way or the other . go out and get a few in your hands. Shoot a friends rifle in both types if you can. A saiga is not a target rifle and nor is the mini 14 ! this one is up to you you will pay more for a mini right now and mags are just plain high price I am a klash man but I use & have a m14 socom I like the m14 best the mini less than the saiga scopes on a saiga are sort of a pain thats true hell check the pawn shops and buy cheap used and buy both thats what ai would do and shoot the one I fell in love with the most Kim
I would take the saiga have had a barrel full of mini 14 and the word bland comes to mind. But lots of ranchers like to carry them in there trucks and LE in there trucks I have never had a mini 14 that shot better than 2 inch group at 100 yards I dont care fore the sights on the mini all me are used to rifles in one way or the other . go out and get a few in your hands. Shoot a friends rifle in both types if you can. A saiga is not a target rifle and nor is the mini 14 ! this one is up to you you will pay more for a mini right now and mags are just plain high price I am a klash man but I use & have a m14 socom I like the m14 best the mini less than the saiga scopes on a saiga are sort of a pain thats true hell check the pawn shops and buy cheap used and buy both thats what ai would do and shoot the one I fell in love with the most Kim
Re: saiga vs mini 14
The "Tactical" Mini is just a standard Mini-14 with a black synthetic stock and a flash hider and the shorter 16" barrel. They will achieve (more or less) the same accuracy as any rack-grade Mini (which usually equates to around 2-3MOA with decent ammo). They are more than accurate enough for coyote use out to 100yds or so.
The Saiga 223 rifles I have shot (one stock 20.5" barrel and one converted 16.3") were slightly better with decent ammo in terms of accuracy (2MOA or so).
Both are very reliable rifles with more than acceptable accuracy for your stated purpose...if it were me and I was chosing between the two, I'd probably opt for the Saiga and a conversion based on nothing more than the cheaper cost for more or less the same rifle.
Now, with that said...I would be remiss if I didn't at least say: YOU SHOULD GET AN AR-15!!
Good luck!
The "Tactical" Mini is just a standard Mini-14 with a black synthetic stock and a flash hider and the shorter 16" barrel. They will achieve (more or less) the same accuracy as any rack-grade Mini (which usually equates to around 2-3MOA with decent ammo). They are more than accurate enough for coyote use out to 100yds or so.
The Saiga 223 rifles I have shot (one stock 20.5" barrel and one converted 16.3") were slightly better with decent ammo in terms of accuracy (2MOA or so).
Both are very reliable rifles with more than acceptable accuracy for your stated purpose...if it were me and I was chosing between the two, I'd probably opt for the Saiga and a conversion based on nothing more than the cheaper cost for more or less the same rifle.
Now, with that said...I would be remiss if I didn't at least say: YOU SHOULD GET AN AR-15!!
Good luck!
Re: saiga vs mini 14
Seems like the main reason to get a mini 14 is to keep the wood stock look and have a "tactical" rifle that doesn't look very "tactical" to bystanders. They're not very accurate and the magazines are seven or eight times more expensive than good AR magazines.
I've shot them a few times over the years and yeah...see no reason to own one over an AR. They're not bad, it's just that ARs do everything much better and ARs are so cheap now--you can pick up a new S&W MP15 for $700, spare mags for $7 each.
When you get into a mini-14 for $500, plus $35 each for factory hi-cap mags, you hit AR prices pretty quick for something that is inferior in a number of ways.
If you're trying to avoid ARs for some reason, why not pick up an AK style rifle in 7.62x39--they're actually as or more accurate than mini-14s and the ammo is cheaper, the mags are much cheaper, and it's a more powerful round.
When you go with something like a Saiga in .223, you're limiting yourself pretty strongly in terms of magazine availability, ease of parts replacement, etc.
Just my two cents, reasonable men can differ.
Seems like the main reason to get a mini 14 is to keep the wood stock look and have a "tactical" rifle that doesn't look very "tactical" to bystanders. They're not very accurate and the magazines are seven or eight times more expensive than good AR magazines.
I've shot them a few times over the years and yeah...see no reason to own one over an AR. They're not bad, it's just that ARs do everything much better and ARs are so cheap now--you can pick up a new S&W MP15 for $700, spare mags for $7 each.
When you get into a mini-14 for $500, plus $35 each for factory hi-cap mags, you hit AR prices pretty quick for something that is inferior in a number of ways.
If you're trying to avoid ARs for some reason, why not pick up an AK style rifle in 7.62x39--they're actually as or more accurate than mini-14s and the ammo is cheaper, the mags are much cheaper, and it's a more powerful round.
When you go with something like a Saiga in .223, you're limiting yourself pretty strongly in terms of magazine availability, ease of parts replacement, etc.
Just my two cents, reasonable men can differ.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cserv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no experience with the Saiga, but have a Mini-14 Ranch. It will only hold 3-4MOA at 100. So far all I've ran through it are 55gr FMJ's. Am working on a barrel strut, and looking at a flash suppressor/brake for it, maybe some heavier rounds. These are supposed to tighten up the grouping a bit. I love my Mini for what it is, a solid reliable platform capable of hitting body sized targets to 300. Will probably hear something from the AR guy's regarding accuracy, but it is what it is, I don't argue it. Just my opinion.
Eric </div></div>
Excellent Post.
Minis are Minis. Good serviceable 2 - 4 MOA rifles.
I have shot them, owned them, and enjoyed them.
I have an AR now--mostly because I am reducing the number of platforms I am willing to work with.
I would buy a Stainless Ranch rifle today over an AK. But only because I live in the great north-WET (stainless) and prefer the scope mounting options on the Ranch Rifle.
I would not buy a Saiga based upon my perception that replacement parts may not be available (foreign suppliers can sometimes be hit and miss). I am fairly certain Ruger will be around for a while.
Also, My wife owns a Ruger Compact in 223. We got it used. Original owner bought a mini, and traded it in to get more accuracy. He then bought what is now my wife's Ruger Compact, to get accuracy. He then traded the Ruger Compact in and got an AR to get the combination of accuracy and firepower he wanted.
All that being said, if you want one, buy one.
BMT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cserv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no experience with the Saiga, but have a Mini-14 Ranch. It will only hold 3-4MOA at 100. So far all I've ran through it are 55gr FMJ's. Am working on a barrel strut, and looking at a flash suppressor/brake for it, maybe some heavier rounds. These are supposed to tighten up the grouping a bit. I love my Mini for what it is, a solid reliable platform capable of hitting body sized targets to 300. Will probably hear something from the AR guy's regarding accuracy, but it is what it is, I don't argue it. Just my opinion.
Eric </div></div>
Excellent Post.
Minis are Minis. Good serviceable 2 - 4 MOA rifles.
I have shot them, owned them, and enjoyed them.
I have an AR now--mostly because I am reducing the number of platforms I am willing to work with.
I would buy a Stainless Ranch rifle today over an AK. But only because I live in the great north-WET (stainless) and prefer the scope mounting options on the Ranch Rifle.
I would not buy a Saiga based upon my perception that replacement parts may not be available (foreign suppliers can sometimes be hit and miss). I am fairly certain Ruger will be around for a while.
Also, My wife owns a Ruger Compact in 223. We got it used. Original owner bought a mini, and traded it in to get more accuracy. He then bought what is now my wife's Ruger Compact, to get accuracy. He then traded the Ruger Compact in and got an AR to get the combination of accuracy and firepower he wanted.
All that being said, if you want one, buy one.
BMT
Re: saiga vs mini 14
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...im leaning more towards the 223 cause i here it is more accurate than the 7.62x39 </div></div>
That is not entirely accurate.
The .223 is not inherently more accurate than the 7.62x39...the problem is the ammo that is commonly used in the 7.62x39 is crap from Wolf, Tiger, Silver Bear, Soviet Bloc surplus, etc., combined with the relatively poor fit/components used to build some of the AK variants that the ammo gets fired from. Both of those things together have given the cartridge/rifle a reputation for poor accuracy which is not really 100% correct. With decent enough ammo and rifle, the 7.62x39 is not a bad cartridge at all...especially for varmint/pest control within the range you specific in your earlier post.
The Saigas are very capable rifles if you are considering a Kalashnikov-type action. The Arsenal Inc AKs are also some of the best in the world, but will get you into a different budget range (and again...into the price of A GOOD AR-15!!!).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...im leaning more towards the 223 cause i here it is more accurate than the 7.62x39 </div></div>
That is not entirely accurate.
The .223 is not inherently more accurate than the 7.62x39...the problem is the ammo that is commonly used in the 7.62x39 is crap from Wolf, Tiger, Silver Bear, Soviet Bloc surplus, etc., combined with the relatively poor fit/components used to build some of the AK variants that the ammo gets fired from. Both of those things together have given the cartridge/rifle a reputation for poor accuracy which is not really 100% correct. With decent enough ammo and rifle, the 7.62x39 is not a bad cartridge at all...especially for varmint/pest control within the range you specific in your earlier post.
The Saigas are very capable rifles if you are considering a Kalashnikov-type action. The Arsenal Inc AKs are also some of the best in the world, but will get you into a different budget range (and again...into the price of A GOOD AR-15!!!).
Re: saiga vs mini 14
For a little more $$$ you can get an AR Platform and have it shoot 1MOA with little effort where the 2 you have mentioned will shoot 4-5MOA. I would vote AR-15
For a little more $$$ you can get an AR Platform and have it shoot 1MOA with little effort where the 2 you have mentioned will shoot 4-5MOA. I would vote AR-15
Re: saiga vs mini 14
well as of late I have shot at the range with a couple of different guys shooting new mini -14s one is a blued ranch rifle that has a beautiful stock . very odd for a ruger and the other is a tactical. I seriously doubt that there would be two flukes or miracles at the same range on the same day but both of those guys were shooting 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 inch groups pretty regular at the hundred yd line . I know because I was spotting for them. I have had mini,s in the past and yeah 3-4 inch groups at 100 yds was pretty regular , but I have read and saw that the accuracy in the newer guns was improved . I would definatly by a mini over a siaga simply because I have looked at several siagas at gun shows and the fit and finish is not the greatest not to mention more than one canted front sight.
by the way I own 6 ar 15 rifles and think they are the answer to my needs but not everybody needs or wants all the tacticool stuff or mall ninja discount card.
well as of late I have shot at the range with a couple of different guys shooting new mini -14s one is a blued ranch rifle that has a beautiful stock . very odd for a ruger and the other is a tactical. I seriously doubt that there would be two flukes or miracles at the same range on the same day but both of those guys were shooting 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 inch groups pretty regular at the hundred yd line . I know because I was spotting for them. I have had mini,s in the past and yeah 3-4 inch groups at 100 yds was pretty regular , but I have read and saw that the accuracy in the newer guns was improved . I would definatly by a mini over a siaga simply because I have looked at several siagas at gun shows and the fit and finish is not the greatest not to mention more than one canted front sight.
by the way I own 6 ar 15 rifles and think they are the answer to my needs but not everybody needs or wants all the tacticool stuff or mall ninja discount card.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
AR is too heavy?
Use a 16" standard profile barrel...the rest is aluminum and plastic.
The new minis do shoot a little better. Ruger finally decided to improve them a tiny amount after selling junk for 30 years, so their customers could have more faith in the improved junk.
They didn't bother to fix all the issues, but they did raise their prices though.
TC
AR is too heavy?
Use a 16" standard profile barrel...the rest is aluminum and plastic.
The new minis do shoot a little better. Ruger finally decided to improve them a tiny amount after selling junk for 30 years, so their customers could have more faith in the improved junk.
They didn't bother to fix all the issues, but they did raise their prices though.
TC
Re: saiga vs mini 14
Saiga in 5.45. Use the difference in cash between them to buy tons of 5.45 surplus and some ak74 mags (the saiga 545 takes ak74 magazines just fine).
If you want something in 223, get an AR. There is ZERO reason to spend 5-600 on a mini when 700ish will get you an AR that shoots twice as well.
Saiga in 5.45. Use the difference in cash between them to buy tons of 5.45 surplus and some ak74 mags (the saiga 545 takes ak74 magazines just fine).
If you want something in 223, get an AR. There is ZERO reason to spend 5-600 on a mini when 700ish will get you an AR that shoots twice as well.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
How can you possibly discount the AR based on weight (unless you are hanging tactical lights, bipods, optics, bayonets, knives, forks, spoons and your iPod off your AR that weighs 14lbs)?!?!
The Ruger Mini-14 Tactical weighs 6.75lbs unload/no mag.
The Saiga 223 weighs 8.4lbs!!!
Taking an average, commercially mfg'd AR-15 like an RRA CAR A4 16" flattop weights 7.1lbs.
Now, while not the lightest, the AR weighs approx. 1/4lb more than the Ruger and over 1.25lbs LESS than the Saiga.
Now in terms of accuracy, the RRA is guaranteed for 1.5MOA or better (and the ones I have shot will get damn close to MOA with good ammo). Neither the Ruger nor the Saiga have an accuracy guarantee and you know you'll not get the accuracy out of the Mini or the Saiga you can get with the AR.
Compromise of accuracy for lighter weight/portability/etc. is fine...but look at the numbers before you make a decision based on incorrect information.
How can you possibly discount the AR based on weight (unless you are hanging tactical lights, bipods, optics, bayonets, knives, forks, spoons and your iPod off your AR that weighs 14lbs)?!?!
The Ruger Mini-14 Tactical weighs 6.75lbs unload/no mag.
The Saiga 223 weighs 8.4lbs!!!
Taking an average, commercially mfg'd AR-15 like an RRA CAR A4 16" flattop weights 7.1lbs.
Now, while not the lightest, the AR weighs approx. 1/4lb more than the Ruger and over 1.25lbs LESS than the Saiga.
Now in terms of accuracy, the RRA is guaranteed for 1.5MOA or better (and the ones I have shot will get damn close to MOA with good ammo). Neither the Ruger nor the Saiga have an accuracy guarantee and you know you'll not get the accuracy out of the Mini or the Saiga you can get with the AR.
Compromise of accuracy for lighter weight/portability/etc. is fine...but look at the numbers before you make a decision based on incorrect information.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
I have a Saiga in 7.62x39 and I would recommend it for two reasons: They are designed for reliability in all environments (mud, snow, dust, whatever) and the 7.62x39 cartridge is a more powerful cartridge than .223 . ARs are great, but very finicky when it comes to working when they are in a dirty environment. An AK design rifle will keep shooting and shooting and shooting.
I have a Saiga in 7.62x39 and I would recommend it for two reasons: They are designed for reliability in all environments (mud, snow, dust, whatever) and the 7.62x39 cartridge is a more powerful cartridge than .223 . ARs are great, but very finicky when it comes to working when they are in a dirty environment. An AK design rifle will keep shooting and shooting and shooting.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
Saiga's are a very high quality rifle, I have 2, shouldn't ever need to worry about parts, just a high class AK, Saiga bought surefire mags and now have hi cap mags, need no bullet guide or anything---if you ever have a Saiga it would impress you, --
Saiga's are a very high quality rifle, I have 2, shouldn't ever need to worry about parts, just a high class AK, Saiga bought surefire mags and now have hi cap mags, need no bullet guide or anything---if you ever have a Saiga it would impress you, --
Re: saiga vs mini 14
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHERE ARE those $700 AR's coming from?</div></div>
I've put together three AR's for around $700-750. One shot 1-1.25MOA with Winchester FMJ from a rest. I haven't shot the other two other then to sight them in and qualify with one. They shot around the same as the other one when I shot it the same way. The AC-556 I was issued and most of the older Mini-14 I've seen shoot around 3-6MOA. The newer ones are supposed to shoot better though. The WASR-10/63 I have shot around 2MOA with Winchester FMJ from a rest. I actually qualified better with the AK then the AR when we qualified last.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHERE ARE those $700 AR's coming from?</div></div>
I've put together three AR's for around $700-750. One shot 1-1.25MOA with Winchester FMJ from a rest. I haven't shot the other two other then to sight them in and qualify with one. They shot around the same as the other one when I shot it the same way. The AC-556 I was issued and most of the older Mini-14 I've seen shoot around 3-6MOA. The newer ones are supposed to shoot better though. The WASR-10/63 I have shot around 2MOA with Winchester FMJ from a rest. I actually qualified better with the AK then the AR when we qualified last.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
I bought a Spike's lower receiver and built it with a Rock River lower parts kit with the two stage match trigger and an A2 stock. Now I am going to sit on it until I can find an upper at a decent price. If the prices are dropping, I can stand to wait!
I bought a Spike's lower receiver and built it with a Rock River lower parts kit with the two stage match trigger and an A2 stock. Now I am going to sit on it until I can find an upper at a decent price. If the prices are dropping, I can stand to wait!
Re: saiga vs mini 14
Well, you can get a deal on a used one or build one. 800 is more realistic once you count in shipping, gas going to get the parts etc. If you look around there are plenty of cheap uppers out there for ~500$ and I've seen complete lowers for 200$. You won't be getting the best parts but it'll work and you'll have a platform that is 10X better than a mini should you decide to modify it in the future.
Saiga 5.45 is nice because you can convert it and then have a decent ak74ish clone for not a lot of money.
Well, you can get a deal on a used one or build one. 800 is more realistic once you count in shipping, gas going to get the parts etc. If you look around there are plenty of cheap uppers out there for ~500$ and I've seen complete lowers for 200$. You won't be getting the best parts but it'll work and you'll have a platform that is 10X better than a mini should you decide to modify it in the future.
Saiga 5.45 is nice because you can convert it and then have a decent ak74ish clone for not a lot of money.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Brace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the price you would spend on a Mini, why would you when you could have an AR that will be twice the gun. </div></div>
STAINLESS STEEL.
My two favorite firearms word in the lonely wet Willamette Valley Winters.
BMT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Brace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the price you would spend on a Mini, why would you when you could have an AR that will be twice the gun. </div></div>
STAINLESS STEEL.
My two favorite firearms word in the lonely wet Willamette Valley Winters.
BMT
Re: saiga vs mini 14
I am a State correctional Officer and I use a Mini 14 as my Primary duty rifle, and The only reason that I have one is that I have to qualify quarterly with it, other than that I would recomend the saiga in 223, and do the ar 15 magazine conversion it makes one hell of a rifle. Justin Bowerman
I am a State correctional Officer and I use a Mini 14 as my Primary duty rifle, and The only reason that I have one is that I have to qualify quarterly with it, other than that I would recomend the saiga in 223, and do the ar 15 magazine conversion it makes one hell of a rifle. Justin Bowerman
Re: saiga vs mini 14
A mini-14 will shoot minute of jackrabbit all day out to 200 yard which is all I use mine for. Super reliable as well.
A mini-14 will shoot minute of jackrabbit all day out to 200 yard which is all I use mine for. Super reliable as well.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A mini-14 will shoot minute of jackrabbit all day out to 200 yard which is all I use mine for. Super reliable as well.</div></div>
Don't forget minute of human as well
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A mini-14 will shoot minute of jackrabbit all day out to 200 yard which is all I use mine for. Super reliable as well.</div></div>
Don't forget minute of human as well
Re: saiga vs mini 14
Th only reason I got a Mini was to get my teenager into 3 gun here in Kalifornia. It is illegal for a minor to shoot a registered AW. They shoot decent for fun 3 gunning. Stock sights are slow to pick up when the sun is behind you. And mag changes are slow as well.
Th only reason I got a Mini was to get my teenager into 3 gun here in Kalifornia. It is illegal for a minor to shoot a registered AW. They shoot decent for fun 3 gunning. Stock sights are slow to pick up when the sun is behind you. And mag changes are slow as well.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
I am gonna put a post that goes against probably most here. I have a Mini, AR and a AK. All good rifles for the intended purpose they were produced. I have a 580 series Tactical Mini. The barrel is thicker than the older Mini's, has a flash suppressor as well. Mine came with a ATI strikeforce stock and I am running a Primary Arms Red Dot. It shots the SAME groups that my Bushmaster does. These guns have come along way in the last 2 years. I had a older one that was good for 3-4" group at best. My new one is very accurate with 1-1.5" groups at 100yds.
What I like about the Mini is the reliability and the Garand style action.
I am gonna put a post that goes against probably most here. I have a Mini, AR and a AK. All good rifles for the intended purpose they were produced. I have a 580 series Tactical Mini. The barrel is thicker than the older Mini's, has a flash suppressor as well. Mine came with a ATI strikeforce stock and I am running a Primary Arms Red Dot. It shots the SAME groups that my Bushmaster does. These guns have come along way in the last 2 years. I had a older one that was good for 3-4" group at best. My new one is very accurate with 1-1.5" groups at 100yds.
What I like about the Mini is the reliability and the Garand style action.
Re: saiga vs mini 14
I am about to put a TechSight aperture sight on my Saiga. I friend put one on his AK and said the extended sight radius and the aperture make his AK much more accurate. The sight mounts onto the recoil assembly and are rock solid. Check them out at http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm I'd go with the Saiga any day over a Mini14
I am about to put a TechSight aperture sight on my Saiga. I friend put one on his AK and said the extended sight radius and the aperture make his AK much more accurate. The sight mounts onto the recoil assembly and are rock solid. Check them out at http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm I'd go with the Saiga any day over a Mini14
Re: saiga vs mini 14
Owned an late 80s a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch (Stainless). Excellent rifle, no issues at all. I really wanted an AR 15 5.56 - so I traded it for a Bushmaster. Traded the Bushmaster for a Colt AR15 - and would never go back. Parts are available for the AR-15 from many makers, Magazines are affordable. The Ruger is more of a proprietary weapon (Which can be bad).
Owned an late 80s a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch (Stainless). Excellent rifle, no issues at all. I really wanted an AR 15 5.56 - so I traded it for a Bushmaster. Traded the Bushmaster for a Colt AR15 - and would never go back. Parts are available for the AR-15 from many makers, Magazines are affordable. The Ruger is more of a proprietary weapon (Which can be bad).
Re: saiga vs mini 14
The saiga will have a big scope mount if you wanna scope it. Choosing between an AK and a Mini, I don't think your argument about the 7.62x39's accuracy will hold any water. The M1sales upper in 7.62x39 i have was sub-moa via handloads, and has killed out to 300+ yards by the PO. An Ak will be less accurate, most likely, but for dogs, the 7.62x39 will be cheaper to plink with, and make bigger holes. Since Hornady has come out with vmax ammo for the 7.62 and 5.45, you should probably look into them as accuracy standards, and decide from there. There hasn't been much in the way of quality 7.62x39 ammo, and none for the 5.45. have you been to the saiga-12 forums and looked at the groups shot?
The saiga will have a big scope mount if you wanna scope it. Choosing between an AK and a Mini, I don't think your argument about the 7.62x39's accuracy will hold any water. The M1sales upper in 7.62x39 i have was sub-moa via handloads, and has killed out to 300+ yards by the PO. An Ak will be less accurate, most likely, but for dogs, the 7.62x39 will be cheaper to plink with, and make bigger holes. Since Hornady has come out with vmax ammo for the 7.62 and 5.45, you should probably look into them as accuracy standards, and decide from there. There hasn't been much in the way of quality 7.62x39 ammo, and none for the 5.45. have you been to the saiga-12 forums and looked at the groups shot?
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