Salt Lake City and the Homeless-Bums

[Foul Mike]

I am sure this problem exists in most large cities to some extent or another and I know something needs to be done about it but I don't know what.
My Squaw and I went on a short trip to Salt Lake City just for a getaway for a few days. We had never been on Amtrak so rode the train out there to see what that was like and stayed in a nice hotel downtown, all booked up beforehand to avoid any hassles.
I had done some looking around on GoogleEarth so knew there are some nice restaurants and interesting things to go see in the downtown area well within walking distance. We figured we would be able to take leisurely strolls around there to see some of these things and had also booked a bus tour of the city.
In the morning after our late night arrival we took off on our adventure. WTF? there are Bums everywhere and trash and shit[human not dog] everywhere. People laying out on the grass next to the streets passed out or sleeping and a park downtown that I am sure was once nice but now overrun by Bums.
I had not taken my legal CCW pistol with me because of Amtrak regs but was sure wanting it at that point and had I known more about Amtrak and how it works would have had it with me but didn't want to be violating any laws.
They have all of these Homeless Bums everywhere out there!!! I was told by locals that the City had cleared them out about a month ago but they just dispersed a bit and were working their ways back into downtown as if there weren't enough already there. They camp in different areas and all of those areas are just trashed making the problems worse.
We rented a car for a day and drove around a bunch to look at things and saw Bums all over the general area but did visit a nice shooting complex to get ideas for the one we are building here locally. Everyone of the locals that we had contact with were very nice and helpful as to directions etc, but goddamn, don't they realize how much all of these Bums are hurting their local economy? I had cash in hand to spend in some of the local downtown eateries and pubs and still have it. I did make the Taxi cabs some money as I was not going to walk around down there very far.
I am all for helping out someone who is down on their luck and needs a hand up but I am NOT going to give any HANDOUTS.
I am all in for bringing back insane asylums and work programs to get people back in the workforce and issue each and every Cop a big strong hickory pick handle to help those that are slow get an incentive to get off their ass and on their feet and move along. What are your thoughts about this? Maybe a cold winter and Darwin will weed them out.

I worked hard all of my life to get what I have got, I didn't lay around and do nothing waiting for someone to take care of me as these people do and don't get me started on the fact that most all of them have Obama cell phones that they fuck with while they wait for the gravy train and I carry a flip phone that I pay for every minute I use.

Bring back WPA, CCC and the draft. Enforce NO LOITERING Laws
Rant over. FM...

 

[bogeybrown]

That sucks man, but SLC isn't unique by any means. I got tasked at one point with moving the homeless camps out of our precinct and it just turns into human ping pong with the other precincts sending them back. The judges won't lock them up, and the more amenities/shelters that are available just encourage more of them.

What really fucked us is that the casino areas of MS had the shit figured out and instead of arresting problems they put them on Greyhound over to us. I can't tell you how many crack whores and homeless folks told me they were here because Mississippi deported them. I begged like a child for a mechanism for us to be able to do the same, with no success.

Short of an impossible socialogical solution, it's just a matter of kicking the can around and making one area so hostile to them that they find another one.

 

[Maggot]

Its becoming a major problem everywhere.

Its sad, because some of them at least, are victims of 2008. Once yore homeless, its tough to get it rolling agai and it could happen to any of us, given the right circumstances. But thats a small proportion.

Ive offered a couple work and so far havent had any takers. As far as I know, there is no law against being homeless. Here in Charlottesville, there are a lot of local social orgs that help them out. Like you Mike, I dont do handouts. I give, on a regular basis, to the Salvation Army, and when one asks for help I tell them to go there.

I dont see an easy solution, so to be cynical, Id say 'Soylent Green' except most of them would be unedible.

On a seperate, more positive note, I love Amtrak. I too it from San Francisco to Chicago. I spent the extra for a sleeper, and with that comes a shower, and meals included. The food was quite good. Recommended.

 

[timesublime]

I used to work with a Mormon whose mom lives in SLC. She wanted to come out and visit his family on the Amtrak, he said that it was too unsafe at the train station and ended up buying her airline tickets. Part of the problem is that upon reaching the age of 18, the local Natives are given $85K reparations checks and most proceed to drink the money away. Many are found passed out all over the town and most prevalently along State St.

Last January I witnessed a young man passed out drunk on the side of US 6 about 30 miles from Green River, UT. It was below freezing and I could not figure out how the hell he got out there. The State Trooper that responded to the call told me that it was more common than you would expect, and this guy was lucky that we saw him since it was getting dark.

 

[Foul Mike]

It is a HUGE problem that many don't see or turn a blind eye to.
I believe that many of the Libtard types think that by giving them what they need, things will be just hunkee dorry and in most places that is what goes on.
It is a pandemic problem in our country that until I went to SLC I was not aware of the proportions of it.
I have a hard time wrapping my mind around as to how these dregs of society do what they do and are enabled by what Govt. does for them. Govt. just enables them and they continue the march.
There are many people out there that are down on their luck for one reason or another and need help and I am all for helping them out if they are willing to work and make their lives better, however, there are a lot of them that for some reason or another just choose to live like that and all they do is hold their hand out and if offered a job will say they don't want that they will just stay on the dole and do nothing, They have no Pride. They are just leeches enabled by their Obama phones to know where the next destination is that will give them handouts.
I am sure many are mentally ill and/or have not been in an environment that taught them any kind of a work ethic, be it bad parenting or parents that have been on the dole for generations and know nothing different and have a lack of education.
It is a problem that is way out of proportion and little or nothing is being done to correct it and that needs to change.
As communistic as it may sound, I am all for re-education camps and work force training even if it is that they clean the sides of highways and their own slum areas that they create before they are given anything and take away the FREE Obama phones and give them a device that only calls 911 in case of an emergency..
I am sure some will think I am HardAss about that but that is how I think now.
What is being done is NOT working and needs to change. Off your ASS and on your feet. It is time to go to work. FM

 

[Foul Mike]

I have no problem with Amtrak. It was a good ride. I just wish you could ride during the daylight hours and be able to see all of the country you are traveling through and when it gets dark book a hotel for the night. Next morning, get on the train and SEE where you are going,not just pitch black out the window.,
I understand that things do not go as I wish and there are not that many trains.
timesublime, I understand that problem too. All too often the Ravens are what alert the Authorities, Highway Patrol, etc, that there is a problem.
I have seen that on several of the Rezs..

 

[waveslayer]

I feel you! It has gotten out of hand, especially in SLC! it's insane. But come to Orange County, right next to Angle Stadium! WOW, it's a whole tent city! Not sure what the problem is, mostly mental health cut backs, there are no facilities for these patients. I work in Skilled Nursing and it's an issue for us, even for patients with insurance. Reagan really screwed that up big time. Plus the drug problem doesn't help the situation.

 

[Foul Mike]

So---With all of the above,
What needs to be done with this Homeless/Bum problem? and how do we do it?
It is out of control and what is being done is not working to the best of my knowledge. FM

 

[308pirate]

Round them up and take them for a one-way boat ride

 

[bogeybrown]

There's not a "polite" fix that anyone has found. The closest we ever came was when we had a clear mandate from the politicians to remove them and at least a tacit understanding that doing so isn't always pretty. We were able to put a tiny dent in it because we had some municipal ordinances that allowed us to arrest for begging, obstructing traffic, public intox, sleeping in abandoned structures, etc.

I personally drew a big line between the old school homeless guys who knew how to set up a camp out of sight and not make nuisances of themselves and the general dirtbags who panhandled and stood in traffic. The young Gutter Punks got no breaks at all and should have taken a much harder time than we gave them but there's some lines I won't cross. When they showed up in town we did let them know that they got zero fucking courtesy; would be arrested at the first opportunity, and their $300 North Face "homeless" bags may or may not be taken to our Property Section or may just get left on the curb for the "real" homeless to take.

One of the fun games that came out of it was what we called "Homeless Bingo". All the players would pony up $5 or so each month. Homeless signs were assigned point values: invoking God or Jesus was worth "x" points; misspelled words were "x" points; fake veterans were worth extra; having to physically fight the bum ("use of force" report was required); etc. The signs were tacked to the wall with the points written on them and tallied at the end of each month with the winning officer taking that month's pot. It was one of those things that emerged putting some fun into doing a shitty (sometimes literally) job.

Setting up shelters just just puts the word out that the City is a good place to be homeless and more show up. The best humanitarian effort I saw was a facility that would produce a "homeless ID card" for them to minimize the bullshit we had trying to identify them. The center would accept mail and phone calls for the homeless, would let them shower and loan them clothes for job interviews, would help them with resumes, etc. BUT, if you were just a fucking bum they had little use for you. I met a few guys who were genuinely trying to re-enter society and the workforce and was able to set them up with job contacts through that place. I ran into ONE of those guys a year or two later and he was still working a job I'd hooked him up with. He came and gave me a hug and thanked me and I fucking teared up like a bitch that I might have actually accomplished some good. That shit basically never happens in LE and I still remember the couple of minor victories. Otherwise it's just moving human trash around.

 

[pmclaine]

At my sons soccer practice last night two kids went in the woods and came out with a hypodermic they turned in to the coach and local PD picked up. Just inside those woods is a "tent city" that I have forbid my son from investigating and had in fact told the kid that picked up the needle to stay away from just last weekend.

An hour after that incident two men on bikes came from the woods and one was riding one of those "Urban Bikes" that the libs love to promote as an alternative to autos and they use the rental racks to take up all the city parking.

So on the ride home I had to have a conversation with my ten year old regarding hypodermics and homelessness. He is kind of familiar with hypos having a T1D sister but I had to have him understand why this is different so he wont fear his sister.

Regards the homelessness for a fraction of society there is no solution.

They are modern day hermits that live amongst us. For whatever reason, illness or mental sickness, they want to live outside societies structure.

D gooders think its just a matter of building shelters or giving them jobs but they are wanting to live outside the structure that a shelter imposes and they don't want the constraints of a job schedule.

Too some extent they are the fully free and just want to be left alone.

and I just want to be free from human feces and kids getting stuck by used needles.

 

[timesublime]

Yeah, the proliferation of used hypodermics here locally is a scary situation. I have a look before you leap policy here at the local King Soopers, I have found so many hypos in the parking lot that it reminds me of the DC Metro back in the late 1980's.

 

[Foul Mike]

Thank you all for your input.
I live in a very rural area and had no idea as to how bad the problem is. I live in an area where you either work or move on. We don't have a lot of sympathy for Bums.
There is work for everyone, be it picking up hay bales or cleaning out chicken coops. There are jobs around if you really want to work.
I was really pissed to see all of the Bums had a FREE Obama phone and were playing games or whatever, as I pass by with my flip phone that I pay for every minute used.
I think the Govt. is enabling these Bums rather than putting them on a path to better themselves and become productive members of society.
I really have no idea as to a solution, I just know that what is going on isn't working.
I think loitering laws worked in the past and maybe that is a route to go down and open up insane asylems for those that need it. Work programs too to help people in need.
My hat is off to ALL of the LEOs that have to put up with this shit. Personally, if in their shoes, I would be quick to hand out Hickory Shampoos.
There are some out there that really just need a hand up and I am all for that, however, there are most that I feel are just lazy Bums, and need the only thing they really understand and that is a kick in the ass from a heavy boot.
I donate to the Salvation Army and I think they do a lot of good. Thanks for your input and I will be taking this matter on as a personal challenge in my town.
Regards, Foul Mike PS I will not spare the boot in the ASS so I will probably not last long on this endevor.

 

[pmclaine]

How big is the impact of free stuff?

Think about starting a business. If a new business wants to hire an entry level worker in order to entice someone from the free stuff Army starting salary needs to be above the money "earned" sitting on the couch. In my area that could be greater than $35K. A new business can not afford a $35K dishwasher. Govts plan to continue to promote dependence and still have workers is to allow illegal immigration.

Think of the lack of circumstances that lead to innovation. The Great Depression forced people to create new opportunities. Now people sit on the couch and wait for Uncle Sams eagle to vomit in their maws. Silicon Valley likely sprung from the movement of people during the Depression looking for new opportunities and willing to take a chance on ideas formed out of necessity.

Dont think this is intended? Why won't the govt reward someone for working? Lots of under or unemployed would work at any job but if they take any income they usually lose all gov benefits. Why not promote work and than only provide the shortage?

I recently through work came into contact with two people hitch hiking on an interstate. Well worn packs one a guy in his twenty, fit, with a Gerber LMF on his belt. The other female 50s, showing the road miles, looked like she handles the outdoors. Both were given a ride off the Interstate. When asked what the situation was she had been on the road her entire adult life and he was coming up on ten years. Both get social security checks. They were traveling South following the warmth. He stated they moved, camped and just travelled the roads. He had been in every continental state. Just paid to travel and no desire to do anything else.

 

[pmclaine]

PS - There is good reason for the do not feed the animals signs at National Parks. They even acknowledge the problem of DEPENDENCE.

Odd such people quickly disavow mans elevated place in nature and so quickly associate us to mere livestock yet they fail to see the harm of rewarding the livestock for bad behavior.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Reagan fucked it up???? More like Geraldo late 70's expose of mental institutions causing their shut down across the country fucked it up. State mental hospitals are a state issue.Reagan did not fuck this up., the medical profession fucked it up by shitty tortuous practices in those hospitals. One flew over the cuckoo's nest ,mean anything to you.

Get rid of the entitlements and reopen the hospitals at a state level with actual care and the homeless problem will get better.
End of the day they are citizens and have the same rights as us, the mental ones need help the drug ones need different help. Either way we need to stop enabling the sane ones and take care of the insane ones, its our civic responsibility, this is not a new problem.

I feel you! It has gotten out of hand, especially in SLC! it's insane. But come to Orange County, right next to Angle Stadium! WOW, it's a whole tent city! Not sure what the problem is, mostly mental health cut backs, there are no facilities for these patients. I work in Skilled Nursing and it's an issue for us, even for patients with insurance. Reagan really screwed that up big time. Plus the drug problem doesn't help the situation.

 

[WaltHer]

So---With all of the above,
What needs to be done with this Homeless/Bum problem? and how do we do it?
It is out of control and what is being done is not working to the best of my knowledge. FM

We have a large homeless population where I work. Coincidentally we have a lot of "services " (free s#it) for them also. Our department has held fundraisers to send some of these premium customers on vacations to places across state lines only to have them quickly return to enjoy all that our city has to offer.
I used to tell people to never give $ to panhandlers and instead to only donate to bona fide charities who might help these people out. Now I advocate for eliminating services altogether, for business owners to file No Tresspass orders on non customers, and for emergency services to be professional but never accommodating to them. Local problems can be reduced by creating an environment that makes it uncomfortable for these urban campers to stay in your locale. But then they just shuffle down the road to another town. pmclaine's observation about dependence feels head-on to me.

 

[WaltHer]

Never feed a stray cat. Unless you want it to become your cat.

 

[bogeybrown]

We have a large homeless population where I work. Coincidentally we have a lot of "services " (free s#it) for them also. Our department has held fundraisers to send some of these premium customers on vacations to places across state lines only to have them quickly return to enjoy all that our city has to offer.
I used to tell people to never give $ to panhandlers and instead to only donate to bona fide charities who might help these people out. Now I advocate for eliminating services altogether, for business owners to file No Tresspass orders on non customers, and for emergency services to be professional but never accommodating to them. Local problems can be reduced by creating an environment that makes it uncomfortable for these urban campers to stay in your locale. But then they just shuffle down the road to another town. pmclaine's observation about dependence feels head-on to me.

Yep, I found the same thing. But I'm also with ArmyJerry that until we regain some level of mental health care then it's never going to improve. If there were ANY menaingful mental health option for us to get people into we could've reduced our "problem" homeless population by at least half. Being homeless isn't against the law, and being crazy isn't against the law, but that doesnt stop the hundreds of calls for service that have to be answered because one of the frequent fliers is off his meds and scaring the shit out of people foolish enough to attempt having lunch in the park that their tax dollars paid for.

Take the money going to homeless causes and put it towards mental health and I believe you'd see a more meaningful difference. Short of that you're left with "zero tolerance policing" which is ugly albeit effective at times.

 

[WaltHer]

"Take the money going to homeless causes and put it towards mental health and I believe you'd see a more meaningful difference. Short of that you're left with "zero tolerance policing" which is ugly albeit effective at times"

-True 'dat.

 

[waveslayer]

ArmyJerry Reagen in CA eliminated all the funding for psych patients... Anyways. You want to get rid of all the entitlements and then reopen the hospitals to actually care for these people... where does the hospital or these patients get the money to proved the proper care?... ENTITLEMENTS... so that won't work.

I think the fundamental problem boils down to 2 ideas. Healthcare is a right or a privileged. My solution would be to stop the entitlements for the illegals, which is out of control, especially here in CA and use those funds for our citizens that are homeless. I think you and I could agree on that. working in the industry, it's not about patient care, it's about reimbursement. Sad to say, but the truth hurts.


"Get rid of the entitlements and reopen the hospitals at a state level with actual care and the homeless problem will get better.
End of the day they are citizens and have the same rights as us, the mental ones need help the drug ones need different help. Either way we need to stop enabling the sane ones and take care of the insane ones, its our civic responsibility, this is not a new problem."



[/QUOTE]

 

[ArmyJerry]

Health care is health care its neither a right or a privilege, its a personable responsibility. We should not spend one dime on an illegal except to imprison the criminal element, or to deport them to Africa so they cant walk back. The fact that you work in the industry makes me mistrust anything you have to say about it.