F T/R Competition Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

Grand Poo Bah

Grand Poo Bah

Private
Minuteman
Aug 1, 2011
23
0
53
Eugene, OR
#1
Hey all.

I just picked up this rifle and it has triple pillar posts however it is not bedded. my question is when I remove the pillar screws I have an amazing amount of movement in the stock. It is a single shot so no mag well. Should I look at bedding the action, and if so does anyone have experience with this specific stock and pic's? or should I look at a different stock and if so any recommendations?

Thanks and sorry for the long message.
 
#2
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice


Torque the action screws down well (45 inch pounds or so) and shoot it. If the pillars are all contacting the action, it should shoot just fine. I shoot mine stock. I'll only bed if I absolutely have to.

Darrell
 
#3
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

Well.....

My FTR shot great from the factory, but I have too much time to tinker with my gun versus actually shoot it. So I noticed my stock was less than a paper's width from the barrel in a few places, the barrel nut was jammed against the stock and I had a lot of movement/twisting of the stock when torquing the three action screws down.
Long story short, I started off opening up the clearance between the barrel/nut and stock, then ended up bedding the action.
I just finished it up and will post pics. I did fubar it up a little but will shoot it first to see if I need to redo it.

Moral of this story, I should have just listened to Darrell and left it alone. Oh well :)
 
#4
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

I have a 12 as well and the stock gets the job done but does get very close to making contact when on my bipod after a few rounds and abuse. I still make .5 inch grouping (still working on my hand loads) at 100yd and roughly 4 inch grouping at 500 yards (first time ever shooting this far). Riffle is completely stock. I would not worry about bedding it and just keep shooting and getting use to the gun. Then just save some money and buy a nice stock eventually. I am on the wait list for a manners after trying one and I am pretty sure the difference in grouping on paper will not be that huge of a margin. I think good glass and practice like my friend told me with this savage will get us pretty far.

I have actually gone to home depot and got super thin washers and put them between the receiver and stock. I have read some people doing it and figure I see what the deal was about. It raised it very slightly and kept the barrel floating but soon realize it made no huge difference so I took it out and left it original as before.
 
#6
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Datsrboi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 12 as well and the stock gets the job done but does get very close to making contact when on my bipod after a few rounds and abuse. </div></div>

Far easier than trying to bed, or space a stock in this case, is to simply "improve" the barrel channel. With a barrel channel tool, you can easily (and professionally) remove small amounts of stock material to improve barrel clearance. It doesn't take much. (and it runs about $25-$30 at Midway)

Darrell
 
#7
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

...or go down to the hardware store and get a piece of 1" dowel rod and some sandpaper. Wrap sand paper around a 6" long section of dowel and relieve the barrel channel as needed... and then if the bedding area is suspect, rather than mess around with spacers, torquing it every yard line, or other hi-jinks, just bed it and be done with it.
 
#8
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

Skim bedding the action would be no hassle at all. I would relieve the barrel channel so when the action sits in the stock, it sits on the original point where it was pillar bedded with the barrel free of the stock. That is on the '12' models. I know some of the older 110 models have a pressure point 1/3 of the way down the barrel.

Anyhow, give it an epoxy skim bedding by first coating the action with a release agent. Tape off what you don't want covered with epoxy on the stock. Then mixing up some epoxy and applying it to all the points the rifle is going to touch in the stock.

I'll have to expound at this point on some trends I don't quite understand going on in the firearms industry. One, why is pillar bedding better than full bedding, or base bedding? Granted the pillars being solid helps and you don't want to put any unusual torque on the action. But the full bedding process works so that as you do it the bedding conforms to the action. Not the other way around. Yes I like having the pillars bedded and stout. But, I like even more having the action fully held in the stock. And while warpage does occur, it's not so strong as to overcome the action area strengthened by the epoxy.

The other is the aluminum block bedding. I completely agree it adds strength to the stock and prevents warpage/twisting/unnatural torquing. However, while the v-block system is excellent for measuring, it's not very good at all for holding an action that just received a 50,000 lb. shock during firing. Skim bedding the action puts a lot more contact strength from the action to the receiver. In the cases of the aluminum block that is rounded, again, it won't ever fit the action exactly. So putting a thin layer of epoxy in there is going to add contact and therefore strength.

I like an action to be full and pillar bedded. Full meaning completely supporting the whole action.
 
#9
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

If you wanna talk SAVAGE FTR....

Well yo umigh twant to talk to the captain of the Savage team.
Stan Pate

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=1DoKxAoZh


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc99SiKqoJo
Don't let that 1169yd shot fool ya, they say its out of the box... I'm a big fan of Savage too but I'm guessing all the barrels that were shot and screened that were perfect and not to mention the factory stocks that were worked over and the use of a $2k nightforce all came togeather with a great marksmen surely helped.


Savage also has a facebook page with contact..

Don't
 
#10
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matthewusmc8791</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Don't let that 1169yd shot fool ya, they say its out of the box... I'm a big fan of Savage too but I'm guessing all the barrels that were shot and screened that were perfect and not to mention the factory stocks that were worked over and the use of a $2k nightforce all came togeather with a great marksmen surely helped.

</div></div>

We have shot the Savage .308 F-T/R rifles a lot further than 1169 yards. Monte Milanuk (the new Captain of Team Savage) is the current 1200 yard National Champion with a stock Model 12 F-T/R. Just this last Summer in Scotland, I used one at 1233 yards (on a standard 1000 yard target with a 5" 'X' ring) to beat $6000 - $10000 custom rifles (RPA, etc.).

There is a very good likelihood that I rebarreled at least 2 of the 3 rifles for these efforts in one of our trips to the factory. There wasn't any "cherry-picking" of barrels or anything else. We needed 4 barrels, so I picked 4 barrels out of the massive skiff of barrels waiting for the next step in the assembly process.

No apologies for using Nightforce scopes. For this sort of "uber-long range" play (at least for a .308), you try to reduce your sources of error as much as you possibly can

Hope this helps,

Darrell
 
#11
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

Well thats cool, glad to hear that. Makes me feel eeven better that i bought a Savage.
smile.gif


With yrou vast knowledge of how Savage sets up for World Class matches, can you elaborate on what else if anything is done to squeeze ou thtat kind of accruracy???

The orignal poster as well as I would love to hear it...

Stock work, action, loads, etc

Thanks for the heads up..
 
#12
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matthewusmc8791</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well thats cool, glad to hear that. Makes me feel eeven better that i bought a Savage.
smile.gif


With yrou vast knowledge of how Savage sets up for World Class matches, can you elaborate on what else if anything is done to squeeze ou thtat kind of accruracy???

The orignal poster as well as I would love to hear it...

Stock work, action, loads, etc

Thanks for the heads up.. </div></div>

Hey Matthew,

The match setup is primarily done by the team guys. Savage provides us with the rifles (off the line, just as you'd get them at a gun dealer). Truth be told, there's not a lot ot do to the rifles themselves anyway. A couple of the guys will put on light-weight cheek pieces (Karsten's, generally). I don't bother. With the exception of a thin layer of moleskin over the cheek piece, I haven't modified the rifle I take to virtually all of the big International Matches in any way.

Most of the "accuracy wringing" is in the reloading realm. We put a great deal of time into customizing our reloads for the job at hand. I will take a very different round to a 300-600 meter match (as in Canada) than I take to Ireland and Scotland to shoot 1233 yards. For 1233 yards, I need to keep my little 155.5's traveling above the transonic range (~1.05-1.10 Mach). This means sacrificing a little bit of short-range accuracy by *really* pushing them out there (above 3120 fps). Even so, I am reliably getting between 1/4 and 1/3 MOA groups (prone off a bipod) at 300 yards.


My competition rifle:

Stock work - none
Action work - none
barrel - factory assembly line
loads - extensive!
scope - top of the line

Hope this helps,

Darrell
 
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#13
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matthewusmc8791</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well thats cool, glad to hear that. Makes me feel eeven better that i bought a Savage.
smile.gif


With yrou vast knowledge of how Savage sets up for World Class matches, can you elaborate on what else if anything is done to squeeze ou thtat kind of accruracy???

The orignal poster as well as I would love to hear it...

Stock work, action, loads, etc

Thanks for the heads up.. </div></div>

Hey Matthew,

The match setup is primarily done by the team guys. Savage provides us with the rifles (off the line, just as you'd get them at a gun dealer). Truth be told, there's not a lot ot do to the rifles themselves anyway. A couple of the guys will put on light-weight cheek pieces (Karsten's, generally). I don't bother. With the exception of a thin layer of moleskin over the cheek piece, I haven't modified the rifle I take to virtually all of the big International Matches in any way.

Most of the "accuracy wringing" is in the reloading realm. We put a great deal of time into customizing our reloads for the job at hand. I will take a very different round to a 300-600 meter match (as in Canada) than I take to Ireland and Scotland to shoot 1233 yards. For 1233 yards, I need to keep my little 155.5's traveling above the transonic range (~1.05-1.10 Mach). This means sacrificing a little bit of short-range accuracy by *really* pushing them out there (above 3120 fps). Even so, I am reliably getting between 1/4 and 1/3 MOA groups (prone off a bipod) at 300 yards.


My competition rifle:

Stock work - none
Action work - none
barrel - factory assembly line
loads - extensive!
scope - top of the line

Hope this helps,

Darrell
</div></div>


Sweet... With all that said these hiders might be sad spending $4k on a rifle...

Hope the original poster reads this....

thanks again for all the info...
 
#14
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

Darrell,

If I may ask, what is Savages take of keeping with pillar bedding and not skim bedding (or full bedding) of the whole action?

I know I contradicted you above, but would like to hear a reason if I may. Sometimes I may think I know the hows and whys but others may have seen a better way.
 
#15
Re: Savage 12 F T/R stock questions and need advice

Sand,

It mainly comes down to economics. Theirs is a factory, production line rifle. The rifles shoot very well without bedding, so they are trying to meet a price-point.

Generally speaking, a bedded rifle should be a bit more predictable. Unfortunately, the team has had issues with bedded rifles at competitions in the past. Right after the team was formed, we tried bedding the rifles "because they'll be more accurate". In Oregon anyway, we kept getting rain, solvent, all manner of bad things on the bedding, and finally threw the stocks away and went back to pillar bedded stocks. (at least most of us did).

As before, you may be able to eke a tiny bit of performance benefit out of resin bedding a pillar bedded action, but it won't be something that a factory will be doing, and still sell their rifles for ~$1100.

And really, I can't think that I'm going to measurably improve my groups at this point anyway, whether it be with a full custom rifle, bedding, or any other thing. I'm reliably getting under 1" 5 shot groups at 300 yards (first thing in the morning, before mirage or wind, off a bipod). I'll get much more out of learning to read the wind better and/or develop loads with better BC.

Darrell
 
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