Savage 12 LRP scratching bullets

[jjenkins8655]

I purchased a new Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor a couple of months ago. I've been reloading for it with Nosler 140CC bullets since I got it. Recently I purchased Lapua 139gr, and 140gr Amax bullets for it. When attempting to chamber rounds loaded @ 2.800 COAL with any of the Lapua or Hornady bullets, I'm noticing that the last 1/8 inch of bold close is very tight. When extracting the round, there are marks all the way around the bullet as shown in the pic.

I've attempted to reload the 140 amax bullets, but about 50% of the time, I'm getting extractor marks on the brass at a safe load of 41.5gr H4350.

By comparison, the Nosler 140CC load I've been using for about a hundred rounds is 42.4gr of H4350. That load displays no pressure signs at all. The Nosler bullets aren't getting marked in any way and load and extract cleanly.

I'm assuming that the issue is with the shape of the Lapua and Hornady bullets, and that my Savage throat is very tight. This is causing increased pressure on the Amax loads. (Does this sound right?)

If this is what's going on... what's my best option? Should I find a local smith who can resolve the issue, or should I just send the whole thing back to Savage (and hope they do something to fix it). I'm hesitant to monkey with it, its the most accurate gun I own with the Nosler bullets, but I really want to be able to shoot other brands also.

Any advice would be appreciated, Thanks!

 

[jjenkins8655]

Update: I kicked around the idea of just replacing the barrel (something that I'll likely do at some point anyway), but decided to give Savage a chance to make it right. I opened a support case with Savage describing the issue. A couple of days later they had a UPS tag sent to my door, no questions asked. They wanted it back to have their gunsmith look at it. Hope they take care of it on the first try. I'll update again when the rifle is returned.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I have this same issue with a 10fp in 308. The book length for 155 AMax is 2.800 but I'm hitting the lands at 2.735. Can't decide what to do cause it shoot sub MOA with a factory hornady load.


Sierracharlie out....

 

[Brux]

Mine is back at savage for the second time for the same thing.

 

[tnichols]

Looks like the free bore is too tight. It doesn't look like it's into the lands. Give Savage a crack at it. At least it's not pulling the bullets on a live round extraction, which makes a damn mess. Seems like a lot of Savage issues of late with chamber/throat issues. I agree with you that you should be able to run any bullet (proper spec) without problems.

 

[Darkker]

1) I've attempted to reload the 140 amax bullets.., I'm getting extractor marks on the brass at a safe load of 41.5gr H4350.

2) By comparison, the Nosler 140CC load I've been using for about a hundred rounds is 42.4gr of H4350. That load displays no pressure signs at all.

View attachment 42777

According to Hodgdon & Hornady, both of those loads are over-pressure. So I'm curious how you determine they are "safe". So rather than just an OAL, have you measured to the ogive, and based your seating depth off that? Since it's a Savage, unscrew the barrel and gauge it for yourself.

 

[jjenkins8655]

According to Hodgdon & Hornady, both of those loads are over-pressure. So I'm curious how you determine they are "safe". So rather than just an OAL, have you measured to the ogive, and based your seating depth off that? Since it's a Savage, unscrew the barrel and gauge it for yourself.

41.5 of H4350 is printed on the box of factory Hornady 140 AMAX ammo. But I didn't start there. I started at 40 grains and worked up slowly. That's how I determined it was "safe".

I actually never claimed 42.4 was "safe" but it has never showed any signs of over pressure in my rifle. Again, I didn't start there, I worked up slowly.

I have measured the base to ogive with a comparitor as well, and set that depth on my reloads to the same measurement as factory ammo. My real issue is that I cannot use factory loaded Hornady 140amax rounds in this rifle. That's the problem I sent it back for.

If I had the correct wrench and barrel vise, I would have checked myself. I'll end up investing in those tools someday... but for this issue I just sent it back to Savage. I'm expecting my new savage rifle to function correctly with factory ammo.

 

[6brshooter]

Sure u can use the factory, just bump them back.lol. Savage tends to be sending out 6.5cm and 308with shorter throats, don't know what's up with that. If they run their chamber reamer in, the same one that made the chamber, then most likely it will still be the same. A smith could run a 6.5 thoat reamer and set it to whatever u want. I have heard their 308 chamber is optimized for 168smk, not sure about 6.5cm. It could be worse, remingtons that i've owned had the freebore out near the crown.

 

[Darkker]

41.5 of H4350 is printed on the box of factory Hornady 140 AMAX ammo. But I didn't start there. I started at 40 grains and worked up slowly. My real issue is that I cannot use factory loaded Hornady 140amax rounds in this rifle.

Agree that a factory new rifle should digest any ammo. If you have a regular bench vise, you won't need an action wrench. I have only had to use a vise on two of a few dozen rifles, just the wrench is what it typically takes.

Few things about the ammo:
The load on the box isn't what it is loaded with, that is what "should" replicate factory ballistics.
The... shall we say earlier loads of factory ammo, appeared to be a non-Canister propellant from one mfg. The newer lots, which have given a lot of folks fits, is a non-canister comming from another plant.
I can't recall my color scheme at the moment(so this may be flopped), but IIRC the first stuff appeared to be coming from the General Dynamics plant from Quebec. and the latest stuff appears to be Thales(ADI) out of Australia.
Since Hodgy is a surplus reseller/blender, and they don't give squat for info about their powders; makes this difficult to track lots. GD in Canada recently totally revamped their production line, that well may be playing out with Hodgy's data also, although that is typically what we call IMR powder.... Hodgdon is known for switching suppliers rather suddenly. "Same" powder as far as we know, but things aren't the same.

Hope you get something sorted out either way.

 

[Oldrookie]

My brother in law forwarded this thread to me. I also have a savage 12 LRP in 260. Mine came from the factory without the throat being deep enough. I had mine repaired with a local gunsmith, who lengthened the throat by .0120. Rifle would shoot really well before, but it shoots lights out now.

 

[jjenkins8655]

My brother in law forwarded this thread to me. I also have a savage 12 LRP in 260. Mine came from the factory without the throat being deep enough. I had mine repaired with a local gunsmith, who lengthened the throat by .0120. Rifle would shoot really well before, but it shoots lights out now.

That's encouraging news, thanks! Hopefully Savage does the job for me, but if not a local smith would be my next stop.

 

[Rob01]

Few things about the ammo:
The load on the box isn't what it is loaded with, that is what "should" replicate factory ballistics.
The... shall we say earlier loads of factory ammo, appeared to be a non-Canister propellant from one mfg. The newer lots, which have given a lot of folks fits, is a non-canister comming from another plant.

Not true. From 2008 when it was released up until the 2013 lots they were loaded with H4350. When H4350 became tough to get due to the problems we all know about with hording a non canister was substituted and found not to work as well so another is being used in the 2014 lots now and is much better. The load listed on the box of 41.5grns of H4350 is the load that was used in the initial loadings and from that time on it could fluctuate in weight due to fluctuations in burn rate of lots of H4350. It was left on the box as a recommended load.

 

[cottonant]

Not true. From 2008 when it was released up until the 2013 lots they were loaded with H4350. When H4350 became tough to get due to the problems we all know about with hording a non canister was substituted and found not to work as well so another is being used in the 2014 lots now and is much better. The load listed on the box of 41.5grns of H4350 is the load that was used in the initial loadings and from that time on it could fluctuate in weight due to fluctuations in burn rate of lots of H4350. It was left on the box as a recommended load.

Thanks for posting this. I just switched lots and the same 43.0 of H4350 spiked my 260's velocity by an average of 93 FPS to 2883, and the groups got bigger. The old lot had gotten slower, from about 2815 to 2790, I assumed from humidity over time due to my garage being a sauna, so I moved the reloading inside, and switched lots. Now 42.3 of the new H4350 lot is around the original sweet spot 2815 fps, but the groups have widened out to about .60. I have some other lots of H4350 so I may give them a try.

Regarding the 260 LRP, my brother in law posted above, but didn't mention how bad his gun was scratching the bullets, and how deep he had to seat them. It was strange looking. The .0120 math doesn't add up since his bullets were seated much deeper than mine, and now his 140 Berger 140 VLD ogive is 2.415, .150 longer than my 2.2650. With the new seating depth he's bumping around 2900 fps, about 100 fps faster, and its a one hole gun. Adversity brought him opportunity.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Thanks for posting this. I just switched lots and the same 43.0 of H4350 spiked my 260's velocity by an average of 93 FPS to 2883, and the groups got bigger. The old lot had gotten slower, from about 2815 to 2790, I assumed from humidity over time due to my garage being a sauna, so I moved the reloading inside, and switched lots. Now 42.3 of the new H4350 lot is around the original sweet spot 2815 fps, but the groups have widened out to about .60. I have some other lots of H4350 so I may give them a try.

Regarding the 260 LRP, my brother in law posted above, but didn't mention how bad his gun was scratching the bullets, and how deep he had to seat them. It was strange looking. The .0120 math doesn't add up since his bullets were seated much deeper than mine, and now his 140 Berger 140 VLD ogive is 2.415, .0150 longer than my 2.2650. With the new seating depth he's bumping around 2900 fps, about 100 fps faster, and its a one hole gun. Adversity brought him opportunity.

Maybe this was already answered but what did he do to fix the problem of the short throat? Thanks


Sierracharlie out....

 

[cottonant]

Maybe this was already answered but what did he do to fix the problem of the short throat? Thanks


Sierracharlie out....

He had a gunsmith lengthen the throat. I think he paid $120.00 to have it done. His bullet is way out there now. My 260's COAL for a 140 VLD is about 2.919 and his is .150 longer than mine (the .015 number I posted earlier was a typo).

 

[sierracharlie338]

Got ya. Thanks.


Sierracharlie out....

 

[Jackson51]

I have the same issue with my 12 lrp in 6.5 Creed. I sent it back once for the scratched bullet symptom and they returned it saying the chamber was "rough". Well, after getting it back and blowing primers with factory AMAX rounds, I bought a comparator and measured from the ogive and oal. Factory ammo measured correct oal, but ogive measurements were .015 too long. Hand loaded some AMAXs shorter and problem disappeared. I plan to have a smith correct the throat when things calm down with my schedule, but I'm done with Savage "gunsmiths". I love the rifle but I have NO faith in the their service department.

One more thing, the overpressure caused the ejector and spring to deform. Getting the ejector out was fun. Ended up dropping the bolthead into a small hole in my wooden benchtop and beating the crap out of it with a brass hammer until the little plunger started to appear. Pulled it out with needlenose pliers. Savage said they would send me a new bolthead, but it had to be ordered by my FFL. My dealer said "What?!" Silliest thing he's heard yet. Bolt came in a week later with no extractor or ejector parts, so if I had been waiting for it to continue shooting I would have been out of luck. Instead, I had ordered the three parts that make up the ejector from the website and had them in 4 days.

No faith in their customer service people. Just sayin', but your mileage may vary.

 

[toyfreak]

I think i have the same issue. I just bought this rifle. I can reload but had heard good things from my dealer about the factory 140 amax loads so that's what I went with. (They don't shoot Savage rifles). First box (lot # 3141278 seemed to shoot really well. Didn't measure but really close to 1/2 moa for sure. I only shot 6 rounds to sight it in but the last 3 were touching so I called it good.
Went back to get some more and they were out of that lot # so got some with lot #3133063 and it shot like total poop. Like scary bad. Didn't notice until I was picking up brass that 2 primers were blown out of the 20 I shot so I started researching and ended up here.
Don't have a lot of the tools that you guys have mentioned so I did a quick little marker test to see of it told me anything. This is what I got.

I also noticed that it took more force to close the bolt with the 313 lot. I did the same test with the #314 and it wiped the marker but closing the bolt had no resistance so I'm not sure what to think. I do have calipers to measure the OAL but couldn't locate them.
Don't really feel like dealing with factory runaround BS. Should I just take it to a Smith to have it looked at or blame it on Hornady and start rolling my own? Thanks.

 

[sawgunner2001]

See the following thread and draw your own conclusion. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=236169

 

[Rob01]

I think i have the same issue. I just bought this rifle. I can reload but had heard good things from my dealer about the factory 140 amax loads so that's what I went with. (They don't shoot Savage rifles). First box (lot # 3141278 seemed to shoot really well. Didn't measure but really close to 1/2 moa for sure. I only shot 6 rounds to sight it in but the last 3 were touching so I called it good.
Went back to get some more and they were out of that lot # so got some with lot #3133063 and it shot like total poop. Like scary bad. Didn't notice until I was picking up brass that 2 primers were blown out of the 20 I shot so I started researching and ended up here.
Don't have a lot of the tools that you guys have mentioned so I did a quick little marker test to see of it told me anything. This is what I got.

I also noticed that it took more force to close the bolt with the 313 lot. I did the same test with the #314 and it wiped the marker but closing the bolt had no resistance so I'm not sure what to think. I do have calipers to measure the OAL but couldn't locate them.
Don't really feel like dealing with factory runaround BS. Should I just take it to a Smith to have it looked at or blame it on Hornady and start rolling my own? Thanks.

There were documented 313 bad lots so if the 314 is shooting good then it is probably the bad lot of ammo. Contact Hornady. You shouldn't have to worry about lots other than the 313s so if you want to shoot factory ammo with 312 and older or the new 314s then you will be fine.

 

[toyfreak]

That's good to know. I will put some more down range and see how it works out. As of right now I'm a little skeptical of Hornady. Hopefully the issue has been isolated to 313's. Thanks

 

[Rob01]

Hopefully the issue has been isolated to 313's. Thanks

It is. Already documented and known. As you already know the 314 lots have been fixed and back to normal accuracy standards. Others that have shot it have seen the same.

 

[jjenkins8655]

Update on my 12LRP:

Savage had the rifle for about 2 months. They were in communication with me weekly over the last 3 weeks of repair. First they replaced the barrel. Then it was sent to the range for testing. I was told they weren't happy with the accuracy, so they replaced the entire rifle. I'm not exactly sure why that was necessary, but they must have seen something they didn't like on my rifle.

New rifle doesn't have any issue chambering factory 140Amax ammo, or any of my reloads set to factory OAL. It took 3 shots to zero the scope, and then shot a .5 inch 5 shot group with shots 4-8. I'm very happy with Savage customer service. It took a while, but they did make it right.