Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

[DarinR]

Hello,

I am looking to put together a couple of ACCURATE, fun to shoot bolt actions for the kids that will run with scopes, 16" barrels, bipods and suppressors.

I have owned several CZ's and currently have an old BRNO Model 4 trainer that I LOVE! I would like to get a couple of the CZ 452 Varmint's in .22lr and chop to 16" and thread 1/2x28.

I have not owned or shot any of the MKII FV-SR but I got one in for a customer and it seemed like it could be a fun, inexpensive gun.

Would I be very disappointed in the MKII FV-SR if I got a couple of these instead of CZ-452's? I love the forged action of the CZ and the hammer forged barrels. Do the MKII FV-SR ever wish they had a forged receiver when shooting their guns or are you guys just as happy a clam as I am with CZ/BRNO Model 4?

The purpose for the guns is teaching the kids to shoot a rifle properly from the prone position from 25 to 275 yards. I assume the CZ will easily win this contest but I want to give you guys an opportunity to educate me about the MKII.

Also, I still am not sure what scopes to put on these. I wish to teach them how to run target/tactical knobs also and I want the scopes to be repeatable and accurate but I don't want to spend the money to put NightForce's on each of them. What about SWFA Super Snipers?

Thanks,
Darin

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

You can't go wrong with either setup IMO. Both are dead nutz accurate, with the edge (if one even exists) going towards the 452. This debate has been hashed out so many times but here's my take on the whole deal:

I bought a Savage because I was cheap and didn't search around for a good deal on a CZ. I actually ended up spending more on my Savage then I would have if I bought the CZ 452 Varmint. The savage trigger is pretty darn cool and doesn't need the aftermarket kit that the CZ needs to shine. The kit is cheap, but so was I. Again, my mistake. The action on the CZ is also smoother. The action on the Savage isn't unbearable, but compared to a 452's it feels like crap. D.I.P. offers a 25 MOA base so that's not even a factor in this decision and shouldn't be anyways. Also, I really don't like the "bottom metal" on factory Savages. They pretty much deserve to be replaced with a thicker unit (also sold by D.I.P. and Savage Gunsmithing) which allows the action to be properly torqued.

On top of those things, the CZ is more asthetically pleasing in that it looks more lika a full sized rifle. It also looks better when you add your optics because of this. If looks matter to you, the CZ also has another foot ahead of its competetor. But, this is subject to the eye of the beholder and blah blah blah.

My only beef with CZ 452's is that they don't have hardly any aftermarket support in the stock department, and also they are going out of production to be replaced by the 455, which supposedly doesn't compare in the accuracy department. So I'd assume that once that transition takes place (if it even does; I believe CZ would be utterly moronic to discontinue their 452 line. Offering more models would be a smarter idea....*HINT, CZ if you're reading this!!!*) then the value should increase if you decide the kids have outgrown their setups and need something different. Although chopping the barrels and threading for suppressors might hurt the resale value as people typically buy the Varmint specifically for the barrel profile.

Oh, and do you mind me asking why each rifle is going to be cut to 16" and suppressed? Learning proper marksmanship with a 22lr is best done (in my humble opinion) with a long barrel, match ammo (subsonics anyways, already really quiet), and iron sights. The long barrel increases the time that the bullet is in the bore, and thus requires follow through to be perfect. Match ammo, of course because if you're willing to supress both rifles then you obviously have the money to feed the rifles proper ammo I assume. And finally iron sights because when you learn to use them correctly, the skills they enstill into the shooter carries over to scoped shooting VERY nicely and can help your children learn to shoot very well. Proper fundamentals should be drilled into them as I'm sure you already know, while still maintaining a "fun-factor" as to not bore them into losing interest with shooting. These are just my suggestions though, it's ultimatly your choice.

So at least for me, your prediction was correct. CZ easily wins this battle if you're willing to pay a tad more to get them. As far as optics go, i'm sure you know there are so many options out there that we need specific budget numbers and options wanted/required and intended uses as well. Without knowing any of the above I will say what I always say and point you towards not only the Super Sniper series (which I love and even have on my personal rifle) but also the Vortex scopes. I really want a PST but until I have a rifle suitable to mount it on I won't be purchasing one myself.

Just my .02, hope it helps.

-Dylan

 

[longguntoter]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

Well, just like said before, you can't go wrong with either of the two rifles you are considering. My only suggestion would be with the scopes. You said you are going to teach your kids how to use the rifle/scope combination, so I would keep it simple in that area. Sometimes we get caught up in all the gear, and forget what Sgt. York did in WWI with either an M1903 or M1917 and iron sights. Just good shooting skills. With kids I just kept it simple and basic with iron sights and fixed power scopes - and a lot of ammo so they could get the trigger time. JMHO

 

[Captramrod01]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

Honestly, go CZ the first time around. I'm in the process of selling a couple MKII's because I made the mistake of shooting a CZ452 mil trainer. I wouldn't say it was a whole lot more accurate than my MKII's but damn it made them feel like toys. I'll be picking up a trainer and one in varmint as soon as I clear them out. Just my humble opinion : )

 

[DarinR]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terror/TITS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can't go wrong with either setup IMO. Both are dead nutz accurate, with the edge (if one even exists) going towards the 452. This debate has been hashed out so many times but here's my take on the whole deal:

I bought a Savage because I was cheap and didn't search around for a good deal on a CZ. I actually ended up spending more on my Savage then I would have if I bought the CZ 452 Varmint. The savage trigger is pretty darn cool and doesn't need the aftermarket kit that the CZ needs to shine. The kit is cheap, but so was I. Again, my mistake. The action on the CZ is also smoother. The action on the Savage isn't unbearable, but compared to a 452's it feels like crap. D.I.P. offers a 25 MOA base so that's not even a factor in this decision and shouldn't be anyways. Also, I really don't like the "bottom metal" on factory Savages. They pretty much deserve to be replaced with a thicker unit (also sold by D.I.P. and Savage Gunsmithing) which allows the action to be properly torqued.

On top of those things, the CZ is more asthetically pleasing in that it looks more lika a full sized rifle. It also looks better when you add your optics because of this. If looks matter to you, the CZ also has another foot ahead of its competetor. But, this is subject to the eye of the beholder and blah blah blah.

My only beef with CZ 452's is that they don't have hardly any aftermarket support in the stock department, and also they are going out of production to be replaced by the 455, which supposedly doesn't compare in the accuracy department. So I'd assume that once that transition takes place (if it even does; I believe CZ would be utterly moronic to discontinue their 452 line. Offering more models would be a smarter idea....*HINT, CZ if you're reading this!!!*) then the value should increase if you decide the kids have outgrown their setups and need something different. Although chopping the barrels and threading for suppressors might hurt the resale value as people typically buy the Varmint specifically for the barrel profile.

Oh, and do you mind me asking why each rifle is going to be cut to 16" and suppressed? Learning proper marksmanship with a 22lr is best done (in my humble opinion) with a long barrel, match ammo (subsonics anyways, already really quiet), and iron sights. The long barrel increases the time that the bullet is in the bore, and thus requires follow through to be perfect. Match ammo, of course because if you're willing to supress both rifles then you obviously have the money to feed the rifles proper ammo I assume. And finally iron sights because when you learn to use them correctly, the skills they enstill into the shooter carries over to scoped shooting VERY nicely and can help your children learn to shoot very well. Proper fundamentals should be drilled into them as I'm sure you already know, while still maintaining a "fun-factor" as to not bore them into losing interest with shooting. These are just my suggestions though, it's ultimatly your choice.

So at least for me, your prediction was correct. CZ easily wins this battle if you're willing to pay a tad more to get them. As far as optics go, i'm sure you know there are so many options out there that we need specific budget numbers and options wanted/required and intended uses as well. Without knowing any of the above I will say what I always say and point you towards not only the Super Sniper series (which I love and even have on my personal rifle) but also the Vortex scopes. I really want a PST but until I have a rifle suitable to mount it on I won't be purchasing one myself.

Just my .02, hope it helps.

-Dylan </div></div>

Dylan,

You bring up some excellent points about the long barrel and open sights. I already have a Winchester 67A and a BRNO Model 4 open sighted gun that should fill the longer barrel, open sighted role adequately.

The shorter suppressed barrel is more a cross over trainer to help transition to a scoped centerfire longer range. Part of my thought was to use this platform to teach running a tactical (external adjustment) scope and doping wind and reading mirage through the scope. Also, 3 of my 4 kids wear strong prescription glasses and they are not the fondest of the open sights. I am almost 42 and have excellent vision so I am not sure how to respond to their complaints about open sights. They are learning on them but then they want the scoped version.

I appreciate your detailed reply

Thanks,
Darin

 

[DarinR]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MPB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, just like said before, you can't go wrong with either of the two rifles you are considering. My only suggestion would be with the scopes. You said you are going to teach your kids how to use the rifle/scope combination, so I would keep it simple in that area. Sometimes we get caught up in all the gear, and forget what Sgt. York did in WWI with either an M1903 or M1917 and iron sights. Just good shooting skills. With kids I just kept it simple and basic with iron sights and fixed power scopes - and a lot of ammo so they could get the trigger time. JMHO

</div></div>

Thanks MPB. It is easy for me to get caught up in "gear mode"

Thanks,
Darin

 

[DarinR]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captramrod01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, go CZ the first time around. I'm in the process of selling a couple MKII's because I made the mistake of shooting a CZ452 mil trainer. I wouldn't say it was a whole lot more accurate than my MKII's but damn it made them feel like toys. I'll be picking up a trainer and one in varmint as soon as I clear them out. Just my humble opinion : ) </div></div>

Thanks Captramrod01, I am agreeing with you. Hard to beat the CZ in this price range.

Thanks,
Darin

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DarinR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dylan,

You bring up some excellent points about the long barrel and open sights. I already have a Winchester 67A and a BRNO Model 4 open sighted gun that should fill the longer barrel, open sighted role adequately.

The shorter suppressed barrel is more a cross over trainer to help transition to a scoped centerfire longer range. Part of my thought was to use this platform to teach running a tactical (external adjustment) scope and doping wind and reading mirage through the scope. Also, 3 of my 4 kids wear strong prescription glasses and they are not the fondest of the open sights. I am almost 42 and have excellent vision so I am not sure how to respond to their complaints about open sights. They are learning on them but then they want the scoped version.

I appreciate your detailed reply

Thanks,
Darin
</div></div>

Darin,

That makes perfect sense. So I will stand by my previous advice (minus the part about the irons) and say to stick with the CZ 452 and get them an optic that fits your purpose. I do love my SS 10x and probably won't ever be without it. It's just such a wonderful scope for the price. Durable, tracks nicely, looks good (not that looks matter much, it's just an added bonus for me), clear glass, fantastic customer service, all around great buy.

Regards,
Dylan

 

[DarinR]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

Thanks Dylan,

I appreciate your input. I will order one of the 10x scopes and see how they work. I go down to Mesa a few times a year. I have a sister-in-law and family in Apache Junction at the base of the Superstitions and we have a blast in her back yard hiking up the mountain in the EARLY am. You live in a pretty area (minus the HEAT).

Darin

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

Darin,

Not a problem, I'm just glad to help. If I may, i'd also say that if I were to re-do my entire setup all over again I would buy the 16x over the 10x. Each has its own merits but for the amount of target shooting i've done with it (well over 2000 rounds so far) compared to the amount of hunting i've done (absolutly none; so far at least), I would have been better off with more magnification. If these guns will be strictly for target shooting and nothing else then I would say 16x is more of an ideal. I would even go 20x if it were a dedicated LR rig. 10x fits all avenues very well, from short to long range (long for a 22lr at least), but for target shooting at 100+ i'd vote for 16/20x. Again, just my opinion. If they will be pounding squirrels and what not then by all means go 10x. Either way I don't think you'd be displeased with the quality.

As for Mesa, Arizona; I happen to live about 15 minutes away from the mountain and enjoy the hike very much when it's not too hot outside. It's my #1 place to go for a good adventure! It seems the mountain constantly changes every time we go up but the end destination is always the same, and very grand at that. There's just something simply amazing and breath taking about staring out over all of the state. Luckily the trip up is just as fun as the trip down though

I just wish it weren't so hot here, then maybe we could enjoy the terrain more throughout the year.

 

[Suresperance]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

+1 for the cz. I love my varmint and once all the new ones are sold its safe to say that the 452s will hold or increase in value. now to address the 455 comments I don't think that they are not shooters from what i have seen they just have a very long break in process before they settle in and most people give up on them before that saying they are not as good as their old 452s. also if there proves enough interest green mountain has said it will make a barrel for the 455 its safe to say there would be a similar story with makers like lilja. can you imagine a 455 with a match grade barrel? I for one would love a straight taper match grade barrel on a cz rimfire.


back on topic if you end up getting the SS 10x atop your varmints take and post some pictures and do a write up here I have been looking into putting one on mine to make it a trainer but I'm just skeptic how well I'll be able to see my .17 holes at 100+yrds with a fixed 10x

 

[Situation Normal]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

I seems like you've already made up your mind on this one. I agree though, the CZ is an incredible rifle. I'd keep it open to te 455 series as well though. There are other manufacturers working on an aftermarket support base for them eg. Timney, DIP, Boyds, Lilja...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Suresperance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...also if there proves enough interest green mountain has said it will make a barrel for the 455 its safe to say there would be a similar story with makers like lilja. can you imagine a 455 with a match grade barrel? I for one would love a straight taper match grade barrel on a cz rimfire...</div></div>

I received an email from Dan Lilja last week that said he currently has a 455 in the shop that they are working on, and they do have plans for a drop-in barrel available sometime later this year.

 

[DarinR]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Suresperance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for the cz. I love my varmint and once all the new ones are sold its safe to say that the 452s will hold or increase in value. now to address the 455 comments I don't think that they are not shooters from what i have seen they just have a very long break in process before they settle in and most people give up on them before that saying they are not as good as their old 452s. also if there proves enough interest green mountain has said it will make a barrel for the 455 its safe to say there would be a similar story with makers like lilja. can you imagine a 455 with a match grade barrel? I for one would love a straight taper match grade barrel on a cz rimfire.


back on topic if you end up getting the SS 10x atop your varmints take and post some pictures and do a write up here I have been looking into putting one on mine to make it a trainer but I'm just skeptic how well I'll be able to see my .17 holes at 100+yrds with a fixed 10x </div></div>

Suresperence,

Sounds like the 455 will get some good support in the near future.

Whatever I do, I will post here so everything can share the experience.

Thanks,
Darin

 

[PRDRIVER]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

DarinR -

Like has been said above, you really cannot go wrong with either rifle. If money is an issue, I would lean towards the Savage. If you kids are young, you may want to look at the CZ 452 Scout.

If you decide on the Varmint, I personally do not believe that cutting and threading the barrel would decrease your resale value. I know a lot of suppressed shooters that would pay more for a suppressor ready rifle than a factory non suppressor friendly rifle. Also, in my opinion you do not need more than a 16" barrel in a rifle chambered in .22 LR.

 

[DarinR]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DarinR -

Like has been said above, you really cannot go wrong with either rifle. If money is an issue, I would lean towards the Savage. If you kids are young, you may want to look at the CZ 452 Scout.

If you decide on the Varmint, I personally do not believe that cutting and threading the barrel would decrease your resale value. I know a lot of suppressed shooters that would pay more for a suppressor ready rifle than a factory non suppressor friendly rifle. Also, in my opinion you do not need more than a 16" barrel in a rifle chambered in .22 LR. </div></div>

Thanks RMW,

I am leaning toward the CZ .22 varmint. I have had one before, cut it to 16" and threaded it 1/2x28 and the next customer that came by wouldn't leave without it, so I agree about the resale value not being hurt. I agree about not needing more than 16" for velocity or accuracy.

Thanks,
Darin

 

[TrapperJ]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

CZ makes a 16" barrelled American 452. The barrel is not Varmint profile and you need an adapter to use 1/2x28 threads, but the price is right. All reports show that this model shoots as well as a Varmint. I had my 453 Varmint cut to 18" and threaded. It just looks better to me. Would I cut it to 16"? Sure, its just personal preference.The 16" would look great with a can on it.
Good luck with your choice. I know you'll enjoy.

 

[scsbronco]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

I have owned and shot both quite alot. Simply put I still have the 453. As far as accuracy they were very close. But the features listed about close the deal on the CZ. As scopes I have had really good luck with the Tasco varminter in 6_24x42. They are extremly inexpensive and work well for me on the rimfires.

Jim

 

[Ron Long]

Re: Savage MKII FV-SR or CZ 452 Varmint cut & thread?

I have both 452 FS and 455 American. Both shoot very well and are excellent rifles. If there is a difference in accuracy I cannot see it.