I'm planning on building a SBR with several different caliber uppers,and wanted to know this,is a reciever like the Sun Devil Mfg unit marked "Multi Caliber" all I need as far as ATF approval goes?Or would it be necessary to have a reciever that is specifically engraved "9MM,.223.22LR" in order to use additional uppers chambered in the other 2 calibers?Thanks
Suppressors SBR reciever question
- Thread starter biggjake
- Start date
Re: SBR reciever question
None of that matters. The receiver can be marked any caliber you want. Normally, people put the primary caliber on the registration form, like .223. Caliber, barrel length, and other such non permanent changes are not required to be recorded on the form. This has been ruled by BATFE. So for example, if you have an SBR registered with a Form 1 and the caliber on the form is .223 and the barrel length on the form is 14.5", you can legally put a 9mm upper on it or a 7.5" barrel. These are considered non permanant changes by the BATFE and do not require notification to the BATFE. You will hear all sorts of varying opinion on this by mis informed or ignorant people. In the end, you must do what you feel is best for you, and if you are really that concerned about it, I suggest you contact an attorney who is well acquainted with NFA law. Or, you can do what I always do and read the regulations for yourself. They are written in plain English and it's not rocket science.
Hope this helps, and drop me a PM if you have any questions.
-Patrick
J2T
None of that matters. The receiver can be marked any caliber you want. Normally, people put the primary caliber on the registration form, like .223. Caliber, barrel length, and other such non permanent changes are not required to be recorded on the form. This has been ruled by BATFE. So for example, if you have an SBR registered with a Form 1 and the caliber on the form is .223 and the barrel length on the form is 14.5", you can legally put a 9mm upper on it or a 7.5" barrel. These are considered non permanant changes by the BATFE and do not require notification to the BATFE. You will hear all sorts of varying opinion on this by mis informed or ignorant people. In the end, you must do what you feel is best for you, and if you are really that concerned about it, I suggest you contact an attorney who is well acquainted with NFA law. Or, you can do what I always do and read the regulations for yourself. They are written in plain English and it's not rocket science.
Hope this helps, and drop me a PM if you have any questions.
-Patrick
J2T
Re: SBR reciever question
J2T is spot on there I must say .... but then again I would figure that from someone in a shitty state like Taxachusettes.
J2T is spot on there I must say .... but then again I would figure that from someone in a shitty state like Taxachusettes.
Re: SBR reciever question
Ironic.
Maybe real life 'dey Jesus' could say the same thing.....
http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/9/1/florida-man-arrested-for-constructive-possession-of-an-sbr
(pic credit to Kharn on subguns)
Ironic.
Maybe real life 'dey Jesus' could say the same thing.....
http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/9/1/florida-man-arrested-for-constructive-possession-of-an-sbr
(pic credit to Kharn on subguns)
Re: SBR reciever question
Yes, that situation was the genesis of that photoshop job. No irony or coincidence.
Yes, that situation was the genesis of that photoshop job. No irony or coincidence.
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another option would be to buy a registered from the manufacture SBR Lower, cal will be multi, and no other markings required, this is what I did. </div></div>
This is an excellent idea as it allows you to avoid putting maker markings on the receiver which is a pain in the ass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another option would be to buy a registered from the manufacture SBR Lower, cal will be multi, and no other markings required, this is what I did. </div></div>
This is an excellent idea as it allows you to avoid putting maker markings on the receiver which is a pain in the ass.
Re: SBR reciever question
becareful. As far as the ATF is concerned a reciever alone is not an SBR when done by the factory. Its still just a reciever until its been built as a short barreled rifle.
becareful. As far as the ATF is concerned a reciever alone is not an SBR when done by the factory. Its still just a reciever until its been built as a short barreled rifle.
Re: SBR reciever question
I put down on my Form 1 for my Ar15 SBR 223/22LR/762.39. In the caliber area
I put down on my Form 1 for my Ar15 SBR 223/22LR/762.39. In the caliber area
Re: SBR reciever question
I just talked to a guy about an hour ago who put 5.56, and 9mm in the caliber section on the form for his SBR, and it got kicked back. He had to designate one caliber. That cost him an additional 3 week delay.
I just talked to a guy about an hour ago who put 5.56, and 9mm in the caliber section on the form for his SBR, and it got kicked back. He had to designate one caliber. That cost him an additional 3 week delay.
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just talked to a guy about an hour ago who put 5.56, and 9mm in the caliber section on the form for his SBR, and it got kicked back. He had to designate one caliber. That cost him an additional 3 week delay.
</div></div>
Correct, because you are making ONE permanent rifle. After that as long as its not a perm change it can be whatever, but the original rifle can only be ONE rifle ... 5.56 with an X length barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just talked to a guy about an hour ago who put 5.56, and 9mm in the caliber section on the form for his SBR, and it got kicked back. He had to designate one caliber. That cost him an additional 3 week delay.
</div></div>
Correct, because you are making ONE permanent rifle. After that as long as its not a perm change it can be whatever, but the original rifle can only be ONE rifle ... 5.56 with an X length barrel.
Re: SBR reciever question
Ok, then what about this; you hold a valid SBR registered lower and uppers setup in 22lr, 9mm and 223. You also own 2 more AR carbines, we all know you can never put the SBR uppers on the other lowers but, based on the constructive posession laws/rules/theories what is to keep an ATF agent/prosecuting attorney from ruining your day by saying you had "constructive intent" to "build" 2 unregistered SBR's. Same argument applies to the VFG on your AR carbine and the railed forend for the light/laser on your AR pistol.
Ok, then what about this; you hold a valid SBR registered lower and uppers setup in 22lr, 9mm and 223. You also own 2 more AR carbines, we all know you can never put the SBR uppers on the other lowers but, based on the constructive posession laws/rules/theories what is to keep an ATF agent/prosecuting attorney from ruining your day by saying you had "constructive intent" to "build" 2 unregistered SBR's. Same argument applies to the VFG on your AR carbine and the railed forend for the light/laser on your AR pistol.
Re: SBR reciever question
It is said to be ok, to have extra uppersas long as you dont have extra lowers laying around.
So basically a pistol lower, a SBR lower, and a rifle lower, with those three lowers it is said to be ok that you can have as many uppers as you wish at that point. You could legally make any combination that you wanted to.
BUT with that being said I wouldnt have a barrel shorter than 16 inches unless I had a lower for a pistol or a SBR'd lower around.
It is said to be ok, to have extra uppersas long as you dont have extra lowers laying around.
So basically a pistol lower, a SBR lower, and a rifle lower, with those three lowers it is said to be ok that you can have as many uppers as you wish at that point. You could legally make any combination that you wanted to.
BUT with that being said I wouldnt have a barrel shorter than 16 inches unless I had a lower for a pistol or a SBR'd lower around.
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">becareful. As far as the ATF is concerned a reciever alone is not an SBR when done by the factory. Its still just a reciever until its been built as a short barreled rifle. </div></div>
I assume he means he bought and had transfered via Form 4 a Title II SBR Lower, not a stripped or complete Title I lower.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">becareful. As far as the ATF is concerned a reciever alone is not an SBR when done by the factory. Its still just a reciever until its been built as a short barreled rifle. </div></div>
I assume he means he bought and had transfered via Form 4 a Title II SBR Lower, not a stripped or complete Title I lower.
Re: SBR reciever question
Who sells Form 4 a Title II SBR Lowers that someone replying would recommend?
Who sells Form 4 a Title II SBR Lowers that someone replying would recommend?
Re: SBR reciever question
Noveske USED to sell a complete minus actual stock factory SBR'd lower.
I believe that Sabre offers a factory SBR, but that is a full rifle and not just a lower. I dont think that you are gonna be able to buy just a lower and finish building it yourself.
Noveske USED to sell a complete minus actual stock factory SBR'd lower.
I believe that Sabre offers a factory SBR, but that is a full rifle and not just a lower. I dont think that you are gonna be able to buy just a lower and finish building it yourself.
Re: SBR reciever question
LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc).
LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc).
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who sells Form 4 a Title II SBR Lowers that someone replying would recommend? </div></div>
I know Sun Devil used to, if I remember correctly CMMG did also
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who sells Form 4 a Title II SBR Lowers that someone replying would recommend? </div></div>
I know Sun Devil used to, if I remember correctly CMMG did also
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc). </div></div>
Not calling anyone a liar but I don't know how ATF could force a MFG to sell a complete gun vs a registered lower.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc). </div></div>
Not calling anyone a liar but I don't know how ATF could force a MFG to sell a complete gun vs a registered lower.
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott A Cousino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc). </div></div>
Not calling anyone a liar but I don't know how ATF could force a MFG to sell a complete gun vs a registered lower. </div></div>
because in order for it to be a Short Barreled rifle it must be a COMPLETE rifle and not just a reciever. Look on the 4473 it has a place now for recievers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott A Cousino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc). </div></div>
Not calling anyone a liar but I don't know how ATF could force a MFG to sell a complete gun vs a registered lower. </div></div>
because in order for it to be a Short Barreled rifle it must be a COMPLETE rifle and not just a reciever. Look on the 4473 it has a place now for recievers.
Re: SBR reciever question
Thanks for the replies, I meant what dealers folks would recomend (also who may have stock). Thanks
Thanks for the replies, I meant what dealers folks would recomend (also who may have stock). Thanks
Re: SBR reciever question
I would try giving Poliet Society Inc out of Braselton Ga a call.... well actually send Mark an email. They normally have the Sabre in stock.
I would try giving Poliet Society Inc out of Braselton Ga a call.... well actually send Mark an email. They normally have the Sabre in stock.
Re: SBR reciever question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott A Cousino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc). </div></div>
Not calling anyone a liar but I don't know how ATF could force a MFG to sell a complete gun vs a registered lower. </div></div>
because in order for it to be a Short Barreled rifle it must be a COMPLETE rifle and not just a reciever. Look on the 4473 it has a place now for recievers. </div></div>
It seems you are correct, apparently ATF used to approve just SBR Lowers, as of May of this year they are no longer allowing it.
Seems kind of silly to me but what about ATF doesn't...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott A Cousino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT,Rock River,Spikes,etc. Most of the companies out there will build an sbr,but not to many will sell just an sbr lower reciever. Spikes actually told me that the atf is not letting them sell sbr'd recievers only full sbr'd guns.
As far as being safe when you form 1 your own it is a very good idea to always have the upper on hand that you made the form 1 specs to. Of course you can change uppers with different calibers and lengths,but you should make sure you keep the original or something that matches it(same cal,length,etc). </div></div>
Not calling anyone a liar but I don't know how ATF could force a MFG to sell a complete gun vs a registered lower. </div></div>
because in order for it to be a Short Barreled rifle it must be a COMPLETE rifle and not just a reciever. Look on the 4473 it has a place now for recievers. </div></div>
It seems you are correct, apparently ATF used to approve just SBR Lowers, as of May of this year they are no longer allowing it.
Seems kind of silly to me but what about ATF doesn't...
