I currently have an 18 in armalite with a mid-length gas system. I have been eyeing sbr's and thinking about sending in for my stamp. But I have a few questions will the mid-length gas system cycle w/o problems if I shorten the barrel to 14.5. Also my barrel is chrome lined can I shorten it and recrown it w/o damaging the chrome lining or should I just buy a 14.5 upper. I want to run the ergo 93 stock with a 13 in rail and noveske pig so if you have any similar pics throw them up thanks.
- Thread starter 6.81star
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Re: SBR schooling
Not saying don't do it but why are you going with a 14.5? If your going to pay $200 might as well go as short as practical....Is 14.5 the most practical length? Especially if you're putting a pig on the end! Just have someone weld a pig on a 14.5 barrel and don't pay the $200.
Just something to consider.
ER72
Not saying don't do it but why are you going with a 14.5? If your going to pay $200 might as well go as short as practical....Is 14.5 the most practical length? Especially if you're putting a pig on the end! Just have someone weld a pig on a 14.5 barrel and don't pay the $200.
Just something to consider.
ER72
Re: SBR schooling
One of the new fads over on AR15.com is the BCM light-weight 14.5" mid-length barrels. They can be had with perm. pinned flash hider to keep overall barrel length over 16". So, a 14.5" mid-length gas system is doable. Lots of folks have their mil-spec barrels cut down and an extended flash hider like the A2X or phantom, etc. attached. Works quite well I'm told. If I were doing it, I'd send my barrel to ADCO to have the work done. Reasonable prices, quality work, and FAST turnaround time.
One of the new fads over on AR15.com is the BCM light-weight 14.5" mid-length barrels. They can be had with perm. pinned flash hider to keep overall barrel length over 16". So, a 14.5" mid-length gas system is doable. Lots of folks have their mil-spec barrels cut down and an extended flash hider like the A2X or phantom, etc. attached. Works quite well I'm told. If I were doing it, I'd send my barrel to ADCO to have the work done. Reasonable prices, quality work, and FAST turnaround time.
Re: SBR schooling
I didn't really want to go under the 14.5 length and I thought about welding my yhm quick change suppressor adapter but I've always wanted to try out the pig. Now that you say it, it doesn't make much sense to pay 200.
I didn't really want to go under the 14.5 length and I thought about welding my yhm quick change suppressor adapter but I've always wanted to try out the pig. Now that you say it, it doesn't make much sense to pay 200.
Re: SBR schooling
If youre gonna do the SBR thing, shell out the $200 get it set up for multiple calibers and barrel lengths and be good to go with whatever the flavor of the day is. The buy a complete upper used on AR15.com or here are where ever and go play. A 10.5 is a blast to shoot and the difference between a 10.5 or 11 and a 16 is pretty big. Figure out if a SBR is something you really want to do. If not a pinned or welded 14.5 or a 16 inch barrel is just fine. If you do choose to do the SBR ting definitely do multiple calibers and multiple barrel lengths. good luck, ER
If youre gonna do the SBR thing, shell out the $200 get it set up for multiple calibers and barrel lengths and be good to go with whatever the flavor of the day is. The buy a complete upper used on AR15.com or here are where ever and go play. A 10.5 is a blast to shoot and the difference between a 10.5 or 11 and a 16 is pretty big. Figure out if a SBR is something you really want to do. If not a pinned or welded 14.5 or a 16 inch barrel is just fine. If you do choose to do the SBR ting definitely do multiple calibers and multiple barrel lengths. good luck, ER
Re: SBR schooling
I am also considering taking the SBR plunge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EasyRhino72</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If youre gonna do the SBR thing, shell out the $200 get it set up for multiple calibers and barrel lengths and be good to go with whatever the flavor of the day is.</div></div>
What needs to be done to accomplish this?
What is the advantage of setting up a trust and submitting a Form 1?
What other pitfalls and shortcomings can I avoid?
Feel free to point me to another thread.
I am also considering taking the SBR plunge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EasyRhino72</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If youre gonna do the SBR thing, shell out the $200 get it set up for multiple calibers and barrel lengths and be good to go with whatever the flavor of the day is.</div></div>
What needs to be done to accomplish this?
What is the advantage of setting up a trust and submitting a Form 1?
What other pitfalls and shortcomings can I avoid?
Feel free to point me to another thread.
Re: SBR schooling
I bought a 12.5" upper that came with a KX3. I did not really see any advantage to shooting the KX3. I think it is more of a comfort item to reduce the concision produced by a SBR. It also produces one hell of a flame (hence the Flaming Pig nickname). I removed it and put on a Smith Vortex flash suppressor which is much more practice. When shot next to a 14.5" barrel I cannot tell the difference.
If you are only going to go down to 14.5 then you should have no problem with the mid length system on your current barrel. I would not waste a stamp on a 14.5 inch barrel when you could pin it and be legal.
Also, having a SBR can be a bit of a hassle if you do a lot of traveling across state lines. I bought a pinned 14.5 so I can avoid having to notify ATF and any other possible legal troubles while I am traveling.
The length all depends on what you want to do with the gun. Do want to use it exclusive for CQM? Inside of a house/ vehicle? If so, then be bold, go down to 10.3 or 10.5. Do you want to shoot out to 300 yards? then maybe think about a 12.5. Do you plan on eventually getting a suppressor? Then consider that when selecting your length as well.
There are many possibilities that all depend on what you want to use the carbine for.
I bought a 12.5" upper that came with a KX3. I did not really see any advantage to shooting the KX3. I think it is more of a comfort item to reduce the concision produced by a SBR. It also produces one hell of a flame (hence the Flaming Pig nickname). I removed it and put on a Smith Vortex flash suppressor which is much more practice. When shot next to a 14.5" barrel I cannot tell the difference.
If you are only going to go down to 14.5 then you should have no problem with the mid length system on your current barrel. I would not waste a stamp on a 14.5 inch barrel when you could pin it and be legal.
Also, having a SBR can be a bit of a hassle if you do a lot of traveling across state lines. I bought a pinned 14.5 so I can avoid having to notify ATF and any other possible legal troubles while I am traveling.
The length all depends on what you want to do with the gun. Do want to use it exclusive for CQM? Inside of a house/ vehicle? If so, then be bold, go down to 10.3 or 10.5. Do you want to shoot out to 300 yards? then maybe think about a 12.5. Do you plan on eventually getting a suppressor? Then consider that when selecting your length as well.
There are many possibilities that all depend on what you want to use the carbine for.
Re: SBR schooling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.81star</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I currently have an 18 in armalite with a mid-length gas system. I have been eyeing sbr's and thinking about sending in for my stamp. But I have a few questions will the mid-length gas system cycle w/o problems if I shorten the barrel to 14.5. Also my barrel is chrome lined can I shorten it and recrown it w/o damaging the chrome lining or should I just buy a 14.5 upper. I want to run the ergo 93 stock with a 13 in rail and noveske pig so if you have any similar pics throw them up thanks. </div></div>
6.81star,
I you cut down your 18" barrel, the gas port may or may not be of the correct diameter to run reliably at 14.5". Many shooters are reporting good reliability with the BCM 14.5" middies, so I don't think there is an issue with that barrel length and gas-tube length combination. I assume we are talking 5.56x45mm / .223 (?).
I agree with the other posters that going through the hassles of SBR paperwork for a 14.5" barrel is of limited return on investment. I have a Noveske 14.5" with pinned/welded flash hider and like the length for carbine use without having to register a lower. If I were doing it again today I would probably buy one of the BCM EAG uppers with a pinned/welded BattleComp, as my Noveske has the carbine-length gas system.
I first saw the Noveske KX3 "flaming pig" demo'd at an EAG carbine class back in early 2006. Pat had one on a 10.5" Noveske upper, and the peripheral blast was definitely greatly reduced compared to similar-length barrels. Perhaps a greater benefit is that John's version of the Krinkov device is that it appears to add back pressure and make the shorter barreled-uppers more reliable with a greater variety of ammo. There is no free lunch, however, as it does add significant weight and length. The flash suppression is not as good as many, especially when it gets dirty, and it's not particularly easy to clean. I personally believe that the usefulness of the KX3 is dubious for barrels over 12.5", as the peripheral blast of a 14.5" barrel (5.56x45mm) is not bad, and instead of adding such a long/heavy chunk on the end I'd prefer just to use a longer barrel with conventional flash hider.
If I thought I needed an under-the-trench-coat VSBR (8"ish), I think the KX3 would be a definite advantage as it was with the original Krinkov muzzle brake.
If I really needed an SBR for easier ingress/egress from vehicles, I believe that I would personally go with an 11.5" (carbine-length) upper <span style="font-style: italic">a la</span> Colt Commando or BCM. Check out the BCM subforum on ARFcom for a sticky on why Paul chose the 11.5" versus the 10.3"/10.5".
ETA: The Levang Linear Compensator reportedly has many of the positive attributes of the KX3 without some of the negatives. I have no personal experience with it, but folks I trust have recommended it as an alternative.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.81star</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I currently have an 18 in armalite with a mid-length gas system. I have been eyeing sbr's and thinking about sending in for my stamp. But I have a few questions will the mid-length gas system cycle w/o problems if I shorten the barrel to 14.5. Also my barrel is chrome lined can I shorten it and recrown it w/o damaging the chrome lining or should I just buy a 14.5 upper. I want to run the ergo 93 stock with a 13 in rail and noveske pig so if you have any similar pics throw them up thanks. </div></div>
6.81star,
I you cut down your 18" barrel, the gas port may or may not be of the correct diameter to run reliably at 14.5". Many shooters are reporting good reliability with the BCM 14.5" middies, so I don't think there is an issue with that barrel length and gas-tube length combination. I assume we are talking 5.56x45mm / .223 (?).
I agree with the other posters that going through the hassles of SBR paperwork for a 14.5" barrel is of limited return on investment. I have a Noveske 14.5" with pinned/welded flash hider and like the length for carbine use without having to register a lower. If I were doing it again today I would probably buy one of the BCM EAG uppers with a pinned/welded BattleComp, as my Noveske has the carbine-length gas system.
I first saw the Noveske KX3 "flaming pig" demo'd at an EAG carbine class back in early 2006. Pat had one on a 10.5" Noveske upper, and the peripheral blast was definitely greatly reduced compared to similar-length barrels. Perhaps a greater benefit is that John's version of the Krinkov device is that it appears to add back pressure and make the shorter barreled-uppers more reliable with a greater variety of ammo. There is no free lunch, however, as it does add significant weight and length. The flash suppression is not as good as many, especially when it gets dirty, and it's not particularly easy to clean. I personally believe that the usefulness of the KX3 is dubious for barrels over 12.5", as the peripheral blast of a 14.5" barrel (5.56x45mm) is not bad, and instead of adding such a long/heavy chunk on the end I'd prefer just to use a longer barrel with conventional flash hider.
If I thought I needed an under-the-trench-coat VSBR (8"ish), I think the KX3 would be a definite advantage as it was with the original Krinkov muzzle brake.
If I really needed an SBR for easier ingress/egress from vehicles, I believe that I would personally go with an 11.5" (carbine-length) upper <span style="font-style: italic">a la</span> Colt Commando or BCM. Check out the BCM subforum on ARFcom for a sticky on why Paul chose the 11.5" versus the 10.3"/10.5".
ETA: The Levang Linear Compensator reportedly has many of the positive attributes of the KX3 without some of the negatives. I have no personal experience with it, but folks I trust have recommended it as an alternative.
Re: SBR schooling
14.5midlength BCM, with perm muzzle device is the way to go spend the 200.00 on something else.
I have one with a PWS FSC556 and love it, I would recommend it to everyone and anyone.
Another option is the Noveske Infidel barrel at 13.7 with perm attached pig. I have heard nothing but great news about that setup if you can find one, they are in stock a few times a year.
14.5midlength BCM, with perm muzzle device is the way to go spend the 200.00 on something else.
I have one with a PWS FSC556 and love it, I would recommend it to everyone and anyone.
Another option is the Noveske Infidel barrel at 13.7 with perm attached pig. I have heard nothing but great news about that setup if you can find one, they are in stock a few times a year.
Re: SBR schooling
I have a 14.5 with pinned FH done by ADCO. It runs great. I highly recommend ADCO.
I thought about going the SBR route, but after I researched it a bit I decided against it as it wasn't something I felt was worth the extra paper work & cash.
Make sure you know what you are getting into before you head down that road.
Just my 2 cents.
I have a 14.5 with pinned FH done by ADCO. It runs great. I highly recommend ADCO.
I thought about going the SBR route, but after I researched it a bit I decided against it as it wasn't something I felt was worth the extra paper work & cash.
Make sure you know what you are getting into before you head down that road.
Just my 2 cents.
Re: SBR schooling
I see no point on paying $200 for a sbr stamp and run 14.5". I run a 10.5" with no ftf, so far I've only taken it to 300yds. Check youtube out, they're guys pushing SBR's a lot further that.
I see no point on paying $200 for a sbr stamp and run 14.5". I run a 10.5" with no ftf, so far I've only taken it to 300yds. Check youtube out, they're guys pushing SBR's a lot further that.
Re: SBR schooling
I first built this 14.5" but was not happy
and I ended up with this
I first built this 14.5" but was not happy
and I ended up with this
Re: SBR schooling
why not go big? 308 SBR anyone......
while this is not mine, I was out helping to test it and gather chrono data....Mine is in the works. I am getting green Anodized upper/lower and rail system. barrel is 12.5", my suppressor is 8.5".....and just a FYI, Hornady super performance with 165grn projectiles are hitting 2500fps.
why not go big? 308 SBR anyone......
while this is not mine, I was out helping to test it and gather chrono data....Mine is in the works. I am getting green Anodized upper/lower and rail system. barrel is 12.5", my suppressor is 8.5".....and just a FYI, Hornady super performance with 165grn projectiles are hitting 2500fps.
Re: SBR schooling
I think muzzle breaks on a SBR 12.5" of less should be banned
but mine will be a permanent home for my suppressor, so, not a big deal......if the can is not on it....it will be something other then a brake, that is for sure....
Surprisingly though, the 14.5 inch I used to have was worse. think maybe the increased powder burn created more of a concussion wave.
I think muzzle breaks on a SBR 12.5" of less should be banned
but mine will be a permanent home for my suppressor, so, not a big deal......if the can is not on it....it will be something other then a brake, that is for sure....
Surprisingly though, the 14.5 inch I used to have was worse. think maybe the increased powder burn created more of a concussion wave.
Re: SBR schooling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not go big? 308 SBR anyone......
while this is not mine, I was out helping to test it and gather chrono data....Mine is in the works. I am getting green Anodized upper/lower and rail system. barrel is 12.5", my suppressor is 8.5".....and just a FYI, Hornady super performance with 165grn projectiles are hitting 2500fps. </div></div> I believe you wrongly listed this flame thrower as a SBR. You might confuse people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not go big? 308 SBR anyone......
while this is not mine, I was out helping to test it and gather chrono data....Mine is in the works. I am getting green Anodized upper/lower and rail system. barrel is 12.5", my suppressor is 8.5".....and just a FYI, Hornady super performance with 165grn projectiles are hitting 2500fps. </div></div> I believe you wrongly listed this flame thrower as a SBR. You might confuse people.
Re: SBR schooling
hehe......we had it out today....had a different muzzle device on it....more of a glorified muzzle protector. was a LOT nicer to shoot and be around.
hehe......we had it out today....had a different muzzle device on it....more of a glorified muzzle protector. was a LOT nicer to shoot and be around.
Re: SBR schooling
Do the SBR stamp and get multiple uppers.
If you can find a stripped lower with multi caliber on it instead of 223, then you can also run 9mm shorty upper on it.
Do the SBR stamp and get multiple uppers.
If you can find a stripped lower with multi caliber on it instead of 223, then you can also run 9mm shorty upper on it.
Re: SBR schooling
actually, you can run a 9mm on it even if it is marked 223. it is all in the paperwork and variance letter stating alternate conversions. remember, if you are doing the form 1, you are the manufacturer.
actually, you can run a 9mm on it even if it is marked 223. it is all in the paperwork and variance letter stating alternate conversions. remember, if you are doing the form 1, you are the manufacturer.
Re: SBR schooling
I built a 10.5" sbr a while back and thought it was cool, but quickly got over it. If I was going to do it over, I'd get a lightweight 14.5" barrel with mid-length gas system and pinned and welded PWS FSC. Mid-length will be more reliable, less wear and tear on parts, and easier to travel with.
I think there would be no benefit to a pig on a 14.5" barrel. It's mainly designed to increase back pressure to help a really short barrel function properly. It's gonna be heavy too.
Just my opinion, do what makes you happy.
I built a 10.5" sbr a while back and thought it was cool, but quickly got over it. If I was going to do it over, I'd get a lightweight 14.5" barrel with mid-length gas system and pinned and welded PWS FSC. Mid-length will be more reliable, less wear and tear on parts, and easier to travel with.
I think there would be no benefit to a pig on a 14.5" barrel. It's mainly designed to increase back pressure to help a really short barrel function properly. It's gonna be heavy too.
Just my opinion, do what makes you happy.
Re: SBR schooling
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stacyp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do the SBR stamp and get multiple uppers.
If you can find a stripped lower with multi caliber on it instead of 223, then you can also run 9mm shorty upper on it. </div></div>
The striped lower is easy, just call Sun Devil,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stacyp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do the SBR stamp and get multiple uppers.
If you can find a stripped lower with multi caliber on it instead of 223, then you can also run 9mm shorty upper on it. </div></div>
The striped lower is easy, just call Sun Devil,
Re: SBR schooling
I still have a few ARs and nothing gets shot any more except the 10.5" LWRC with a can.
I still have a few ARs and nothing gets shot any more except the 10.5" LWRC with a can.
Re: SBR schooling
i just got a 10.5 barrel today, now i just need to either get a tax stamp or a 5.5 in compensator.
i just got a 10.5 barrel today, now i just need to either get a tax stamp or a 5.5 in compensator.
