SCAR 17s + A.R.M.S mounts?

HKslave

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First official question post here, so mods please move if necessary.
Anyways, my first real DMR intermediate to long range set up is a SCAR 17s with a 4-16 vortex ffp on top, but what I really wanted to talk about was the mount, and I have several question for those who may know more than me.

(pics below)
This is not just another inquiry into "what mount should I use for my scar so it doesnt destroy my optic" but more of a search for information on the A.R.M.S #72 30mm mount, as I cant find info on it anywhere hardly and the CS reps at A.R.M.S are less than helpful. I like A.R.M.S products and own several of their mounts and they are incredibly robust and machined to very tight tolerances, but A.R.M.S is an old school company, as in their website doesnt look like its been updated since 2001 (and it probably hasnt been) and all their current products are things that wouldve been high tech 20-25 years ago ie. HK g3 scope mounts and FAL pic rail adapters and such.
So... for the pics, and then the questions.

IMG_20220405_140220.jpg

IMG_20220405_140257.jpg

I picked this mount because it was around $200 like other quality mounts (geissele, ADM) that are typically recommended for the SCAR 17 but it has a harmonic recoil reduction spring running through the center of it which is a feature I havent seen on any other mount, as well as it being rated for 300wm, 50cal, up to 40mm anti-material rifles.

My problem is the Vortex 4-16 ffp i want to use didnt clear the base of the mount at first so I loosened the screws underneath holding the rings on, tightened them around the scope, and then re-tightened the bolts in the base. It seemed to work, but the rings didnt seat all the way into the mount. I assumed that this is the way this mount is supposed to work as I cant see any other reason for it to be designed this way, otherwise youd think that the rings would be all one piece with the mount right?

Does anybody hear have any feedback or experience with A.R.M.S mounts? I shot about 60 rounds through the rifle and the setup seemed to work. I took the mount off and put it back on and it held zero, but i did notice that after about 50 rounds one of the bolts on the bottom had become about 1/8th of a turn loose which worried me a little bit, but I guess that could be attributed to the mount needing to settle in place, or the scope and mount just being outright incompatible with one another, which I hope is not the case.

Please help sniper wizards
 

6.5SH

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Depending how much you tighten the rings to the base you are going to bend the scope if you haven't already. The reason it didn't fit as is; the housing bottom is touching the mount.

The ADM AD-DELTA is the model with an NSN and commonly used on these rifles. The Diamondback scope isn't going to last long on that regardless of the mount used, but at least you've got their warranty...
 
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HKslave

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Depending how much you tighten the rings to the base you are going to bend the scope if you haven't already. The reason it didn't fit as is; the housing bottom is touching the mount.

The ADM AD-DELTA is the model with an NSN and commonly used on these rifles. The Diamondback scope isn't going to last long on that regardless of the mount used, but at least you've got their warranty...
well yeah I realized right away "why" it didnt fit, but what I was having trouble with is how Im supposed to make anything fit on this mount, as just about every scope out there is going to need some kind of clearance at the base. I just used a regular flat head screw driver, not a torque wrench, so I dont think that Ive bent the scope... yet. I cant figure out why ARMS wouldve designed the mount this way unless that was its intended purpose, as their CS reps havent given me an answer.

also, why dont you think this scope will last long on a SCAR any less than other similar optics?
 

6.5SH

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It is one of Vortex entry level products they just aren't that durable. A friend who bought one because it is what he could afford had it go south and not hold zero on a mid length gas system AR that got moderate use in practice and matches. Vortex handled it on warranty as expected. The replacement was then placed on an AUG and lasted for about 9 months before it too failed. The 2nd replacement has been relegated for use on a .22 where it is holding up so far, although the lack of a zero stop is an annoyance.

ETA:
If you read the description for that particular mount, they are made for electro optics, they typically do not have as large of a body in that direction. Think of older Aimpoints.
 

HKslave

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It is one of Vortex entry level products they just aren't that durable. A friend who bought one because it is what he could afford had it go south and not hold zero on a mid length gas system AR that got moderate use in practice and matches. Vortex handled it on warranty as expected. The replacement was then placed on an AUG and lasted for about 9 months before it too failed. The 2nd replacement has been relegated for use on a .22 where it is holding up so far, although the lack of a zero stop is an annoyance.
interesting. I just started with this scope because ive seen alot of barret m82s that come with some of vortex's low to mid tier optics as a package so I assumed that it should hold up just fine
 

6.5SH

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Usually someone who could barely afford it or hardly shot it. A fixed power SuperSniper is a much more durable budget choice for a .50
 

theLBC

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    well yeah I realized right away "why" it didnt fit, but what I was having trouble with is how Im supposed to make anything fit on this mount, as just about every scope out there is going to need some kind of clearance at the base. I just used a regular flat head screw driver, not a torque wrench, so I dont think that Ive bent the scope... yet. I cant figure out why ARMS wouldve designed the mount this way unless that was its intended purpose, as their CS reps havent given me an answer.

    also, why dont you think this scope will last long on a SCAR any less than other similar optics?
    i was looking at some of my older "rimfire" type scopes and they don't stick out on the bottom.
     
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    HKslave

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    Usually someone who could barely afford it or hardly shot it. A fixed power SuperSniper is a much more durable budget choice for a .50
    so im actually looking at the SWFA SS fixed 10 power scope on their website for $300. At that price point im assuming it also comes from china, which isnt to say its bad, I just dont see how it could be more durable than the vortex. I think that vortex, being a more household name among shooters churns out so many products from so many different factories that there are bound to be lemons that escape through quality control especially when they are charging so little for such a feature rich scope. However, this is why their warranty is in place.

    I dont know much about SWFA or their warranty, but I do know ive had bad luck with much more expensive scopes having problems before, so I wont write something off just for being more affordable. It sounds like your friend also had bad luck with his vortex scopes, but that sounds like an isolated incident of repeat failures. I seem to have bad luck too though at all price ranges, which is the only reason I started out with an affordable optic.

    What i really want to solve is the mystery behind this mount being the way it is...
     

    6.5SH

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    Less parts and a simpler design is why the SS is more durable, the originals were made in Japan.

    I stated above why that mount is that way, it is made for a different type of optic and use case.
     

    theLBC

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    so im actually looking at the SWFA SS fixed 10 power scope on their website for $300. At that price point im assuming it also comes from china, which isnt to say its bad, I just dont see how it could be more durable than the vortex. I think that vortex, being a more household name among shooters churns out so many products from so many different factories that there are bound to be lemons that escape through quality control especially when they are charging so little for such a feature rich scope. However, this is why their warranty is in place.

    I dont know much about SWFA or their warranty, but I do know ive had bad luck with much more expensive scopes having problems before, so I wont write something off just for being more affordable. It sounds like your friend also had bad luck with his vortex scopes, but that sounds like an isolated incident of repeat failures. I seem to have bad luck too though at all price ranges, which is the only reason I started out with an affordable optic.

    What i really want to solve is the mystery behind this mount being the way it is...
    swfa scopes are made in japan. you could fit my swampfox arrowhead 1-10x on there i think, so there are scopes that will work.
     

    HKslave

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    Less parts and a simpler design is why the SS is more durable, the originals were made in Japan.

    I stated above why that mount is that way, it is made for a different type of optic and use case.
    right, but im having trouble figuring out which actual model optics will fit into this mount save the old model leupold MK4 that is pictured in it on their website. The mount is obviously intended for high caliber rifles, which usually calls for higher magnification optics, but no one that ive asked seems to know what optics WILL clear the base of the mount, including A.R.M.S customer service, which is a little frustrating.

    It appears as if the SWFA you recommended will fit into the mount, however there is no way to be sure without seeing it in person as there is very little clearance on the mount.
     

    MK20

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    First official question post here, so mods please move if necessary.
    Anyways, my first real DMR intermediate to long range set up is a SCAR 17s with a 4-16 vortex ffp on top, but what I really wanted to talk about was the mount, and I have several question for those who may know more than me.

    (pics below)
    This is not just another inquiry into "what mount should I use for my scar so it doesnt destroy my optic" but more of a search for information on the A.R.M.S #72 30mm mount, as I cant find info on it anywhere hardly and the CS reps at A.R.M.S are less than helpful. I like A.R.M.S products and own several of their mounts and they are incredibly robust and machined to very tight tolerances, but A.R.M.S is an old school company, as in their website doesnt look like its been updated since 2001 (and it probably hasnt been) and all their current products are things that wouldve been high tech 20-25 years ago ie. HK g3 scope mounts and FAL pic rail adapters and such.
    So... for the pics, and then the questions.

    View attachment 7844180
    View attachment 7844182
    I picked this mount because it was around $200 like other quality mounts (geissele, ADM) that are typically recommended for the SCAR 17 but it has a harmonic recoil reduction spring running through the center of it which is a feature I havent seen on any other mount, as well as it being rated for 300wm, 50cal, up to 40mm anti-material rifles.

    My problem is the Vortex 4-16 ffp i want to use didnt clear the base of the mount at first so I loosened the screws underneath holding the rings on, tightened them around the scope, and then re-tightened the bolts in the base. It seemed to work, but the rings didnt seat all the way into the mount. I assumed that this is the way this mount is supposed to work as I cant see any other reason for it to be designed this way, otherwise youd think that the rings would be all one piece with the mount right?

    Does anybody hear have any feedback or experience with A.R.M.S mounts? I shot about 60 rounds through the rifle and the setup seemed to work. I took the mount off and put it back on and it held zero, but i did notice that after about 50 rounds one of the bolts on the bottom had become about 1/8th of a turn loose which worried me a little bit, but I guess that could be attributed to the mount needing to settle in place, or the scope and mount just being outright incompatible with one another, which I hope is not the case.

    Please help sniper wizards

    I happen to actually be somewhat of a SME on this stuff. The mount you need is the ADM Delta mount with no cantilever. This is the issued mount and is the best I have found for the SCAR. It should have enough clearance for your scope.

    ARMS is outdated and there is a reason you don't see their stuff in a deployed environment anymore.
     
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    HKslave

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    I happen to actually be somewhat of a SME on this stuff. The mount you need is the ADM Delta mount with no cantilever. This is the issued mount and is the best I have found for the SCAR. It should have enough clearance for your scope.

    ARMS is outdated and there is a reason you don't see their stuff in a deployed environment anymore.
    Yes they are very outdated. The harmonic recoil reduction spring just seemed like a cool feature and the #72 mount was about $50 less than all the ADM delta mounts im seeing for sale across the internet. Thats a shame because I like the mount but im starting to think its only for fixed power scopes because no turret elevation adjustment space needed etc. as @theLBC said.

    Also, the swampfox arrowhead looks suspiciously similar to the vortex strike eagle... enough to make me think they might come from the same OEM

    Edit: so now im thinking keep the mount and return the vortex and get the SWFA/ OR keep the vortex, return the mount and get the ADM delta. decisions decisions...
     

    HKslave

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    Also, its worth mentioning I think, that the internet tales of SCARs killing optics, as many say is just a myth, however when I originally bought the rifle I had planned to put my AGM secutor thermal on top (which actually came with an ADM mount and at least feels like it is very sturdy all around) but after emailing them to inquire about how well it would work, the people at AGM seemed to have little faith in their own product surviving the recoil of the SCAR 17, so now I just dont know what to think.
     

    MK20

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    Cantilever mounts aren't your friend.

    Ditch the arms and get the delta.

    Keep the Vortex. It's better than the SWFA on that gun. If you don't like it swap it for the Trijicon Creedo 2-10 or the Athlon 1-10. The athlon is the perfect scope for that gun. I know because I have that setup.
     

    UpSideDown

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    Get the right optic for your gun, then get the right mount for the optic.

    I wouldn’t put any non-LPVO vortex on a scar. I also wouldnt put a $300 scope on a $3,000 rifle known for murdering optics.

    You have a full length rail, just use scope rings. There’s no need for a unimount. Or do a unimount that’s appropriate for your optic if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy and you want to pay twice what rings cost.

    I don’t say this to be mean, Its said in love. Whatever you do, make friends with someone who really knows guns, because you’re throwing a ton of money into something you don’t understand. You have a SCAR, which is a cool kid gun with issues, and it would behoove you to get guidance with firearms in general based on what I’ve seen.
     

    HKslave

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    Get the right optic for your gun, then get the right mount for the optic.

    I wouldn’t put any non-LPVO vortex on a scar. I also wouldnt put a $300 scope on a $3,000 rifle known for murdering optics.

    You have a full length rail, just use scope rings. There’s no need for a unimount. Or do a unimount that’s appropriate for your optic if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy and you want to pay twice what rings cost.

    I don’t say this to be mean, Its said in love. Whatever you do, make friends with someone who really knows guns, because you’re throwing a ton of money into something you don’t understand. You have a SCAR, which is a cool kid gun with issues, and it would behoove you to get guidance with firearms in general based on what I’ve seen.

    Get the right optic for your gun, then get the right mount for the optic.

    I wouldn’t put any non-LPVO vortex on a scar. I also wouldnt put a $300 scope on a $3,000 rifle known for murdering optics.

    You have a full length rail, just use scope rings. There’s no need for a unimount. Or do a unimount that’s appropriate for your optic if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy and you want to pay twice what rings cost.

    I don’t say this to be mean, Its said in love. Whatever you do, make friends with someone who really knows guns, because you’re throwing a ton of money into something you don’t understand. You have a SCAR, which is a cool kid gun with issues, and it would behoove you to get guidance with firearms in general based on what I’ve seen.
    well that IS the reason I came here to ask questions after all

    The best shooter I know who is also a 2 time national 3 gun champion shot his way to the top in his coming up years with a DPMS and DelTon rifles that all wore Vortex glass. Just mentioning that because I do tend to spend more money than I should on projects sometimes based on recommendations I get from people to use the boojie stuff, but for the prior reason I dont overlook entry level optics like vortex.

    I think the community has spoken at this point and the ADM delta mount is the consensus regardless of the optic.
     
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    UpSideDown

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    well that IS the reason I came here to ask questions after all

    The best shooter I know who is also a 2 time national 3 gun champion shot his way to the top in his coming up years with a DPMS and DelTon rifles that all wore Vortex glass. Just mentioning that because I do tend to spend more money than I should on projects sometimes based on recommendations I get from people to use the boojie stuff, but for the prior reason I dont overlook entry level optics like vortex.

    I think the community has spoken at this point and the ADM delta mount is the consensus regardless of the optic.
    What is the purpose of this gun?
     

    HKslave

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    Less parts and a simpler design is why the SS is more durable, the originals were made in Japan.

    I stated above why that mount is that way, it is made for a different type of optic and use case.
    I looked them up and saw they were made by light optical works so im going with your recommendation and have a 12x mil on the way right now