Rifle Scopes Schmidt Bender 3-27x56 PM II Why so expensive?

[Gil P.]

I'm thinking about this or a Steiner M7Xi. What makes the Schmidt better to justify the cost? Why is the 3-27 so much more expensive than the 5-25?
Can anyone tell me more about this scope? What is the DT II+ feature? It's got more than two revs?

Schmidt Bender 3-27x56 PM II High Power LP MSR2 .1mrad ccw DT II+ MTC LT / ST II ZC LT

 

[earthquake]

I would imagine it's something to do with the 9x mag range vs a 5x in the other. That would most likely require some enhanced engineering of the internals. Don't know if it uses different/better glass or not.

 

[prwillard2]

I've got a 3-27 and it made my Vortex AMG look like it was made from coke bottles. It's a phenomenal piece of engineering.

 

[TangoSierra916]

Justification is always a fun topic lol. But I do think there are differences that are worth more for the 3-27. That being said I think the 3-27 pricing doesn’t make sense based on the market but that’s not my call. ? I’ve had a few I wish I never sold but I noticed a much wider fov, no tunneling like the 5-25, mtc locking turrets were great in my opinion, and obviously the magnification difference. If outside the budget the 5-25 is a proven optic and still very much holds its own.

The m7xi 4-28 is also a very impressive scope. Can’t go wrong either way probably reticle and feature dependent for your choice.

 

[Gil P.]

I would imagine it's something to do with the 9x mag range vs a 5x in the other. That would most likely require some enhanced engineering of the internals. Don't know if it uses different/better glass or not.

That's mainly what I'm wondering; if the glass is better, and if the eyepiece is different. I wonder if it would be worth it to save a little more for an M7Xi with IFS.

 

[Gil P.]

Justification is always a fun topic lol. But I do think there are differences that are worth more for the 3-27. That being said I think the 3-27 pricing doesn’t make sense based on the market but that’s not my call. ? I’ve had a few I wish I never sold but I noticed a much wider fov, no tunneling like the 5-25, mtc locking turrets were great in my opinion, and obviously the magnification difference. If outside the budget the 5-25 is a proven optic and still very much holds its own.

The m7xi 4-28 is also a very impressive scope. Can’t go wrong either way probably reticle and feature dependent for your choice.

Did the PMII 3-27 look any better than the 5-25? Was the FOV wider at equivalent magnifications? They both have the reticle I want, and I would be happy with either turret design. Justification is certainly fun, I've got a Minox and to my eye, the glass was better than the Schmidt. I actually don't like the MR4 very much, I figure this is my chance to upgrade.
Thanks for replying.

 

[TangoSierra916]

@Gil P. - here’s a half ass chart I made of some high level specs with the sb and Steiner and a few others recently. Maybe that helps.

 

[TangoSierra916]

Did the PMII 3-27 look any better than the 5-25? Was the FOV wider at equivalent magnifications? They both have the reticle I want, and I would be happy with either turret design. Justification is certainly fun, I've got a Minox and to my eye, the glass was better than the Schmidt. I actually don't like the MR4 very much, I figure this is my chance to upgrade.
Thanks for replying.

No problem at all, to me the 3-27 outshines the 5-25 in every way, but That’s just me. The 5-25 glass is still exceptional but the tunneling hurts the evaluation for me on the 5-25, where the 3-27 has none. The 3-27 had much better fov but to be expected with the mag range difference.

 

[Gil P.]

Wow the Schmidt has a big FOV on the low end. How would you rate the eyebox on the 3-27? I've owned an M5XI and ZP5, in case you have compared it to either of those.
No tunneling is good, my ZP5 tunnels a bit.

 

[Gil P.]

I've got a 3-27 and it made my Vortex AMG look like it was made from coke bottles. It's a phenomenal piece of engineering.

I'm glad its working well for you. I'm wondering about the value for money compared to the M7Xi w/ IFS. Have you ever seen or used an M7Xi?

 

[roamin]

The eyebox is great. I've got the 34mil version in a 25moa mount I get 25mils of elevation on the dial too.

 

[Gil P.]

The eyebox is great. I've got the 34mil version in a 25moa mount I get 25mils of elevation on the dial too.

Thanks you sir, what other scopes have you compared the eyebox to?

 

[koshkin]

Between the 3-27x and 5-25x S&B it is an interesting comparison. Overall, across the whole mag range, 3-27x is a better scope. However, above 16x or so, I actually prefer the 5-25x slightly. They were designed by a different optical designer and they all have their own "signature" in the image so to speak and to me the 5-25x at high magnification has a little more texture and microcontrast. However, being an older design, it suffers on the low end with tunneling. If you do not spend much time below 10x, I would probably save some money and get the 5-25x. Also, their new GR2ID reticle is kinda growing on me and I think it is only available in the 5-25x for now.

ILya

 

[Gil P.]

Between the 3-27x and 5-25x S&B it is an interesting comparison. Overall, across the whole mag range, 3-27x is a better scope. However, above 16x or so, I actually prefer the 5-25x slightly. They were designed by a different optical designer and they all have their own "signature" in the image so to speak and to me the 5-25x at high magnification has a little more texture and microcontrast. However, being an older design, it suffers on the low end with tunneling. If you do not spend much time below 10x, I would probably save some money and get the 5-25x. Also, their new GR2ID reticle is kinda growing on me and I think it is only available in the 5-25x for now.

ILya

Thanks for the reply, I've got some thinking to do. I usually stay under 20x. Are there any other noteable differences? The turrets are the same? Same parallax feel and ease of adjustment? What about the depth of field?

 

[Gil P.]

Where are they manufactured ?
I noticed the U.S made scopes are more costlier than the Japan and china made scopes. so that could also be a factor

All 3 scopes are made in Germany.

 

[koshkin]

Thanks for the reply, I've got some thinking to do. I usually stay under 20x. Are there any other noteable differences? The turrets are the same? Same parallax feel and ease of adjustment? What about the depth of field?

I have not had my hands on the 3-27x long enough to do a full eval. I was curious about image differences, so I was mostly focusing on that, sorry.

ILya

 

[Gil P.]

I have not had my hands on the 3-27x long enough to do a full eval. I was curious about image differences, so I was mostly focusing on that, sorry.

ILya

No big deal, thanks for the information. Any chance you'll get one for your new article?

 

[koshkin]

No big deal, thanks for the information. Any chance you'll get one for your new article?

Not for this one. I really wanted to mess with the GR2ID reticle and it is only in the 5-25x for now, so that's what I got.

ILya

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

to OP you may check on availability of MSR2 in 3-27 if thats the reticle you want. when i was shopping for a scope earlier this yesr the msr2 and lrr are listed on sites, but in reality s&b was not yet shipping them. nor did retailers have any idea when they would.

i agree with many of the views expressed as differences between the 5-25 and 3-27. i had a 5-25 for a number of years. sold it, wished i hadnt later. looked this year at 5-25 and 3-27 i ended up going with 3-27 based on tunneling at low end on 5-25, it is also a shorter optic vs the 5-25. if your not bothered by the tunneling (which isnt really that bad to begin with) 5-25 is a fine scope

 

[roamin]

Thanks you sir, what other scopes have you compared the eyebox to?

I own a K624i and an NF ATACR 7-35 as well as the 3-27 pmii.

 

[Gil P.]

I own a K624i and an NF ATACR 7-35 as well as the 3-27 pmii.

How does the Nightforce 7-35 compare to the 3-27 PM II? What do you think about the controls, depth of field, and eyebox?

 

[TangoSierra916]

I’ll let @roamin chime in as well since they’ve got the 7-35 as well, but I’ve owned a few. Absolutely nothing wrong with the atacr but I see minor tunneling from 7-9ish, not big enough to not own but it’s there. Controls I think comes down to user preference, do you need two colors of illumination, locking turrets, custom zero stop setting, manufacturer specific reticle? If you have to have any of those it makes your decision one or the other.

I’ve found eye box and optical performance to favor the sb, it’s just very nice. Again nothing bad about the atacr it’s really splitting hairs but to my eyes the sb takes it home. The low end fov is just dang good on the 3-27 but you’re comparing 3vs7 so there should be a difference. I also really love the mtc locking turrets and magnification ring in the sb.

 

[RyanScott]

Someone should just make a 10-30.

 

[Prebanpaul]

I have owned Vortex razor 2's, the Schmidt 5x25 with the MSR reticle, and Nightforece AtacR mil/milc THat being said by far the glass on the Schmidt was the best. I could see hits on white steel at one mile. The AtacR had much better controls. The Vortex better reticles. I chose as an opinion to run Atacr MilC. The glass is very good, controls spot on, and the reticle was ok.