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Rifle Scopes Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

Known

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 30, 2007
244
1
Cascade Mountains
Hi,

I understand that the rheostats on SB scope can interfere with the bolt on a left hand rifle. Does anybody have a picture so I can see how bad it is? I have a left hand Arctic Warfare on order and am concerned that I might have problems if I go the SB route. I imagine the problem would be even worse with a Remington 700 as it has a 90 degree bolt throw versus 60 degrees for the AW.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

Same concern here with a lefty AW on order and S&B 3-20x50 sitting at home in a box.

Am wondering if the Kahles 624i will work? From what I've read there'd be no compromise in quality with the Kahles.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

It will most likely interfere with the bolt if your using a Rem style lefty action. I have heard they may clear the lefty AW due to the 60 degree bolt lift but cant confirm.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

You have to remember you're not just clearing the bolt, but <span style="text-decoration: underline">your hand</span> on the bolt.

There is where some people run into trouble. It also depends on exactly how the rifle is set up. Everybody is slightly different and where one person might have a problem, another person will not.

But generally speaking lefties have an issue.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

Guess I'll be going the Nightforce route. I spoke to the folks at Mile High and while the bolt will clear, one will be limited in how they use their hand.

Leupold is smart enough to put their rheostat at 10 o'clock to avoid such an issue - surprised SB didn't catch on.

Being left handed and VERY left eye dominant just plain sucks.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess I'll be going the Nightforce route. </div></div>

Other options.....
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

Lefty here and it worked for me. But like Frank said everyone is different.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

Hi,

What rifle? Can you please send a picture? Do you have to do anything special with your hand?

Regards,
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi,

I understand that the rheostats on SB scope can interfere with the bolt on a left hand rifle. Does anybody have a picture so I can see how bad it is? I have a left hand Arctic Warfare on order and am concerned that I might have problems if I go the SB route. I imagine the problem would be even worse with a Remington 700 as it has a 90 degree bolt throw versus 60 degrees for the AW. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to remember you're not just clearing the bolt, but <span style="text-decoration: underline">your hand</span> on the bolt.

There is where some people run into trouble. It also depends on exactly how the rifle is set up. Everybody is slightly different and where one person might have a problem, another person will not.

But generally speaking lefties have an issue. </div></div>
Frank (<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Lowlight</span></span>) is correct. Shooters of LH bolt rifles generally have clearance problems with illuminated PMIIs' because either the bolt knob and/or the shooter's fingers will contact the rear of the illumination control knob. However, also as Frank said <span style="font-style: italic">" It also depends on exactly how the rifle is set up. Everybody is slightly different and where one person might have a problem, another person will not."</span>

I don't know anyone with a LH AI, but I know that illuminated PMIIs' can work well on LH bolt Remington 700s' <span style="font-style: italic">for some people.</span> However, things have be just right for it to work. If the shooter has very large hands and/or he or she has thick fingers, if the shooter likes to hold the <span style="font-style: italic">middle or narrow end of the bolt knob</span>, or if the bolt handle has been shortened (most aftermarket bolt knob installs shorten the bolt handle itself), there's a good chance that the shooter's fingers will hit the back of the PMII's illumination control knob. Whoever you spoke to at Mile High probably meant that you will have to hold the bolt knob a certain way when they said <span style="font-style: italic">"one will be limited in how they use their hand."</span>

I have a friend who wanted a PMII 5-25X[56] after shooting my PMII 5-25X[56} Gen 2 XR CCW-equipped Tac Ops X-Ray 51, but bought a Premier Heritage 5-25X[56] to mount on his new X-Ray 51 because he thought that the PMII's illumination knob would interfere with bolt operation. To show him that an illuminated PMII would work on his LH X-Ray 51 I mounted one of my PMII 5-25X[56]s' on his rifle. As soon as I handed him the rifle and he worked the bolt he saw that the PMII's illumination knob didn't hinder bolt operation for him. I let him keep the PMII on his rifle for several months, and he never had any clearance issues.

Again, things have to be just right for an illuminated PMII to work on a LH Bolt rifle. My friend doesn't have hands like King Kong, he holds the bolt knob in the middle with his thumb, index, and middle finger, and has a Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion, which actually slightly increases the bolt handle length for better clearance. I don't have any photos of the bolt in the forward, unlocked postion - but adjusted for proper eye relief and my friend's LOP there are no clearance issues for his fingers and the PMII's illumination knob.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">LH X-Ray 51 with PMII 5-25X[56] + USO ARD and Mark 4 Highs' over Tac Ops Two-Piece Base:</span></span>
LeftyX-Ray51AdjOBLS45Angle18x6.jpg

LeftyX-Ray51AdjRS45Angle18x6.jpg

LeftyX-Ray51AdjOBLSProfile18x6.jpg

LeftyX-Ray51AdjOBRSProfile18x6.jpg



Keith
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

Thanks Keith!

If you or your friend have the time, it would be terrific to see what sort of clearance one has when holding the bolt. I know this would require some effort, so thanks in advance, but it would be good to see various hand positions (what works and does not work).

 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Keith!

If you or your friend have the time, it would be terrific to see what sort of clearance one has when holding the bolt. I know this would require some effort, so thanks in advance, but it would be good to see various hand positions (what works and does not work).

</div></div>
Sorry <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">sacshooter</span></span>, but that PMII is back in my hands. PMII 0.1 MIL Gen 2 XR CCWs' are hard to come by and pricey, and my friend and I didn't want him to be responsible for it so my friend dismounted the PMII and returned it to me.

Keith
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle


[/quote]
Sorry <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">sacshooter</span></span>, but that PMII is back in my hands. PMII 0.1 MIL Gen 2 XR CCWs' are hard to come by and pricey, and my friend and I didn't want him to be responsible for it so my friend dismounted the PMII and returned it to me.

Keith [/quote]

No worries - I understand.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

I have 3 S&Bs mounted on 3 different lefty rifles.
Rem 700
BAT VR PIC
Surgeon 591
They will work but the center of the scope has to be slightly forward of of the center of the ejection port. As others have said there are other options that might be better but I run them and don't have a problem.
Congrats on your lefty AW.

Dustin
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 3 S&Bs mounted on 3 different lefty rifles.
Rem 700
BAT VR PIC
Surgeon 591
They will work but the center of the scope has to be slightly forward of of the center of the ejection port. As others have said there are other options that might be better but I run them and don't have a problem.
Congrats on your lefty AW.

Dustin </div></div>

Thanks Dustin. Would you happen to have any pictures? From your description, that sounds pretty far forward. Are you having to compensate with length of pull?
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 3 S&Bs mounted on 3 different lefty rifles.
Rem 700
BAT VR PIC
Surgeon 591
They will work but the center of the scope has to be slightly forward of of the center of the ejection port. As others have said there are other options that might be better but I run them and don't have a problem.
Congrats on your lefty AW.

Dustin </div></div>

Thanks Dustin. Would you happen to have any pictures? From your description, that sounds pretty far forward. Are you having to compensate with length of pull? </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">sacshooter</span></span> -

Below is a closed-bolt photo of the port side of my friend's LH X-Ray 51. That rifle has a LOP of about 14.5" and setup with the PMII 5-25X[56] it had perfect eye relief and a "full scope" all the way from 5X through 25X (full magnification). With the bolt unlocked and fully forward there was about 1/8-3/16" between 3:00 on the Illumination Knob and the midpoint of the (Tac Ops) Bolt Knob, allowing non-sausage-fingered LH shooters' to grasp a <span style="font-style: italic">properly-installed</span> Tac Ops bolt knob at the midpoint and run the bolt smoothly.

The PMII 5-25X[56] has excellent eye relief so there's some leeway when it comes to the shooter's fore-aft position on the cheekpiece. However, the PMII was pretty much as far aft as I could position it, so if someone with a LH action wanted to slide the PMII further aft I think they'd be out of luck because there would probably be a clearance issue between the PMII's Illumination Knob and the bolt knob regardless of action and bolt knob manufacturer.

On the other hand, if someone wanted or needed to position a PMII 5-25X[56] further forward they'd really need to use a one-piece rail so they'd be able to move the rear ring forward without butting the rear ring up against the Illumination "saddle" (it's hard to tell from the photo but there's only about .170" between the back of the rear ring and the front of the Illumination "saddle"). Since the rear ring is already positioned in the forwardmost slot of the two-piece base there's no way to move the rear ring further forward. Less mounting real estate for rings and accessories is really the only downside of a two-piece base.

LeftyX-Ray51AdjLSProfile28x6.jpg



Keith
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

I'm a lefty, bought an S&B 3-20 for a GAP 308. The bolt DOES clear the illum knob but as other have stated it's not enough to clear the bolt knob and your fingers/hand. I had to send it back. I suspect the 60-deg bolt throw of an AI will clear the illum knob just fine, but don't know for sure.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

I've seen some pictures on the AI and it looks pretty tight. Another member of the Hide who is ordering a LH AIAW like me has a S&B and is going to let me know how it works once he gets his rifle. I'm leaning toward Nightforce as I want the flexibility to use the scope on my LH Rem 700 rifles. No sense spending big money on an optic and having to work around poor placement of the rheostat knob.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 3 S&Bs mounted on 3 different lefty rifles.
Rem 700
BAT VR PIC
Surgeon 591
They will work but the center of the scope has to be slightly forward of of the center of the ejection port. As others have said there are other options that might be better but I run them and don't have a problem.
Congrats on your lefty AW.

Dustin </div></div>

Thanks Dustin. Would you happen to have any pictures? From your description, that sounds pretty far forward. Are you having to compensate with length of pull? </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">sacshooter</span></span> -

Below is a closed-bolt photo of the port side of my friend's LH X-Ray 51. That rifle has a LOP of about 14.5" and setup with the PMII 5-25X[56] it had perfect eye relief and a "full scope" all the way from 5X through 25X (full magnification). With the bolt unlocked and fully forward there was about 1/8-3/16" between 3:00 on the Illumination Knob and the midpoint of the (Tac Ops) Bolt Knob, allowing non-sausage-fingered LH shooters' to grasp a <span style="font-style: italic">properly-installed</span> Tac Ops bolt knob at the midpoint and run the bolt smoothly.

The PMII 5-25X[56] has excellent eye relief so there's some leeway when it comes to the shooter's fore-aft position on the cheekpiece. However, the PMII was pretty much as far aft as I could position it, so if someone with a LH action wanted to slide the PMII further aft I think they'd be out of luck because there would probably be a clearance issue between the PMII's Illumination Knob and the bolt knob regardless of action and bolt knob manufacturer.

On the other hand, if someone wanted or needed to position a PMII 5-25X[56] further forward they'd really need to use a one-piece rail so they'd be able to move the rear ring forward without butting the rear ring up against the Illumination "saddle" (it's hard to tell from the photo but there's only about .170" between the back of the rear ring and the front of the Illumination "saddle"). Since the rear ring is already positioned in the forwardmost slot of the two-piece base there's no way to move the rear ring further forward. Less mounting real estate for rings and accessories is really the only downside of a two-piece base.

LeftyX-Ray51AdjLSProfile28x6.jpg



Keith</div></div>

Thanks Keith - very informative!
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

It's way to easy to change the geometry of a bolt & bolt handle to let it affect the scope you like the best or want to use on any rifle.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess I'll be going the Nightforce route. I spoke to the folks at Mile High and while the bolt will clear, one will be limited in how they use their hand.

Leupold is smart enough to put their rheostat at 10 o'clock to avoid such an issue - surprised SB didn't catch on.

Being left handed and VERY left eye dominant just plain sucks. </div></div>

Hey, even the sniper in Saving Private Ryan was a leftie, what a great movie.
 
Re: Schmidt Bender Scope on left hand rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: warbird2006</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess I'll be going the Nightforce route. I spoke to the folks at Mile High and while the bolt will clear, one will be limited in how they use their hand.

Leupold is smart enough to put their rheostat at 10 o'clock to avoid such an issue - surprised SB didn't catch on.

Being left handed and VERY left eye dominant just plain sucks. </div></div>

Hey, even the sniper in Saving Private Ryan was a leftie, what a great movie. </div></div>

Hey warbird, you're time here will be very short-lived.