Just picked up a Schmidt & Bender PM II 5-25 DT CW CCW with MSR reticle and maybe it's just where I don't have the best cheek weld or don't have the diopter adjusted good enough but it just seems really touchy to me.. I have it on a Tikka T3X varmint 223 with the factory stock as of now so that may be the issue.. Anyone else share this experience or is it just me? I'm thinking about sending it back and trying a Minox ZP5 or a NF ATACR F1 5-25 but I just haven't decided yet.... Thoughts?
Rifle Scopes Schmidt PM II finicky eye box? Anyone?
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Sounds like you have not set it up properly.
Suggest you take it out of the rings and start again. Mark your cheek weld position on the stock and adjust off that.
Suggest you take it out of the rings and start again. Mark your cheek weld position on the stock and adjust off that.
What do you mean by "touchy"? Do you mean that it's not as forgiving and that you have to be in the right spot in order to see clearly through it? If so, that's someone common on them. Once you set it up just right, it should be perfect every time you look through it. The eye box is not as forgiving in the SB, but the glass clarity and quality of build is very good.
I didn't like mine, either. Crazy about the 4-16, but not the 5-25. Call me stupid, but I can be pissed at the scope without spending 3200. and magnification? Read Frank's posts about how much shooting he does with 18 power or less.
God bless America
God bless America
How many moa does your rail have built in? if its 0 then itll be less than ideal..also if your having issues setting it up call the service center and theyll help you.
It's a 20 MOA rail, by touchy I mean even when it seems as though I am where I'm supposed to be, it's like the outer edges seem slightly darkened and if you move even just a little bit it tries to black out. In, out or slightly to either side it tries to lose picture.. It's not nearly as forgiving as my ATACR F1 4-16... I also am not really a huge fan of the turrets clicks being so close together, my Razor gen 2's have spoiled me I guess...
No, it's not a forgiving eye box.
What power are you at when you notice this? From 7x down to 5x there is a black ring that is part of the design of the optic. If you are having the problem above 7x then read this thread on how to set it up: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...up-a-ffp-rifle-scope-a-simple-psa-on-diopters
Have you tried moving it closer or further away from your eye vis-a-vie just trying to get centered behind it?
This was my first thought as well.
I doubt you have it set up correctly. Setup should be done IN your preferred position (prone, bench, etc). Once it is done, you shouldn't have an issue. Diopter adjustment is not the issue. That only affects the sharpness of the reticle. Dark rings are indicative of improper position of the optic relative to the placement of your eye.
Mine is as good or better than any of my other optics (NF ATACR F1, Khales and USO).
Maybe you need to buy a Kahles
I hear ya Aviatrix, your Kahles will be shipping very soon by the way.. Like I said earlier, it's probably the stock positioning I'm getting with the Tikka stock, I probably need a stock with an adjustable cheek riser.. I have moved closer and farther away from the scope and you can tell right away where you need to be.
I do not have vast experience with scopes even though I have been shooting scoped rifles for over 50 years.
What I have noticed is that the higher the magnification ratio, the more touchy the eyebox or position of the eye behind the scope.
Never an issue with 3x such as a 3-9 or 3.5-10. 4-16 seems OK. 3.5-18 on my Swarovski ZX-5 is a PITA, yet the 3.5-21 on my Bushnell H2DMR is fine. Now the primary difference between the latter two is the diameter of the tube, 1" vs 34mm and the size of the eye piece. Bigger seems to be easier.
It may be my eyes, I'm getting a little older at 75 and eyes do funny things as we age. I have also had Lasik correction done to my eyes about 20 years ago and, while I can see fine without glasses or contacts at distances of up to 8 feet, my distance vision is getting funky.
What I have noticed is that the higher the magnification ratio, the more touchy the eyebox or position of the eye behind the scope.
Never an issue with 3x such as a 3-9 or 3.5-10. 4-16 seems OK. 3.5-18 on my Swarovski ZX-5 is a PITA, yet the 3.5-21 on my Bushnell H2DMR is fine. Now the primary difference between the latter two is the diameter of the tube, 1" vs 34mm and the size of the eye piece. Bigger seems to be easier.
It may be my eyes, I'm getting a little older at 75 and eyes do funny things as we age. I have also had Lasik correction done to my eyes about 20 years ago and, while I can see fine without glasses or contacts at distances of up to 8 feet, my distance vision is getting funky.
I didn't notice any problems with the eye box switching from the Kahles 624i to the PM II 5-25. I did need to adjust my cheek piece and the scope position when setting it up, but it's been great once I got it mounted.
I'm thinking it's this as well Sheldon, it's the Tikka factory stock so it's not really high enough in the cheek weld area. I'll play with it some more and see what she does, but may send her packing if I don't feel like it's gonna shake out for me...
I think Cartmen nailed it. You don't have your scope in the right position for how you usually shoot. I've owned most of the high end optics out there at one time or another. The PM II 5-25 isn't as forgiving as say a Hensoldt, but I've never struggled with it either. Take time to re-adjust your mounting position.
I think the cheek weld and distance from eyepiece is key. I have my rifle set up for me, so take it fore granted. Not till I started setting up my 7yr old on my rifle did I realize how key that is. Cause if you are a little low or high or too close or too far, you get the effects that you describe.
I think you should try that a little more... because once it is set up, you see how clear that optic really is... if you don't, shoot at dusk, in the desert.
Hope that helps (a little)
I think you should try that a little more... because once it is set up, you see how clear that optic really is... if you don't, shoot at dusk, in the desert.
Hope that helps (a little)
My NXS 8-32X56 does the exact same thing to me.
To OP i have a 5-25 and several other S&B scopes and an F1..I can assure youi the 5-25 has a good eyebox and its definitely better than the nightforce. and the nightforce > than gen2 razors ive used. Do yourself a favor and instead of asking opinions on this on a forum call the service center and they will help you out more than likely will be Jerry..most likely your diopiter is out of propper spec and its causing you to focus on the reticle.
Yeah, I had to run my T2A cheek piece all the way up, even farther than when I had the Kahles on.
I have a T3X CTR. I had to put a Triad stock pack on it to get my cheek weld elevated enough for proper eye alignment. The Triad comes with several velcro strips that can be added/subtracted on the inside to adjust the height until you get it right. It sounds like you need something like this to get your alignment right.
I totally agree, I do think this is the issue.. Or a nice chassis would be nice, wonder which one would fit the Tikka the best?
Correct, the posts above address the 2 main issues that can cause eyebox problems... The Diopter definitely needs to be set properly, but the cheek weld is the more likely problem... To illustrate this problem to customers in the past Ive taped a 24" piece of 1/4 dowel rod on the side of the scope. Id line it up directly through the horizontal centerline, and have the customer shoulder the rifle with eyes closed to get a natural position... We would adjust ring height or cheek weld to get the eye and scope to line up... then set eye relief with the (flashlight method)
This always gave excellent results. People would be surprised how far off they really were...
This always gave excellent results. People would be surprised how far off they really were...
Not sure, but there are a few out there to choose from. I have no intention of replacing the cheap plastic stock on the CTR because I like the light weight for something different than my other two precision rifles (both of which have AX chassis and SB PMIIs). With the adjustability of the AX chassis, I don't notice any problems at all with the eye box on those scopes.
Eyebox of the PMII 5-25 is similar to that of any 5-25x56 scope in my experience.
Some, like the Steiner M5, are a little less finicky but the PMII is not the worst either.
Some, like the Steiner M5, are a little less finicky but the PMII is not the worst either.
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