Rifle Scopes Scope for hunting, target and self defense

[MAHLMAN]

I have spent some time trying to find concise info on a scope that would do what the title says. I am not unrealistic in my expectations believing that all three can be met in world class fashion at the same time. However after slogging through tons of posts and threads and having very little practical experience I find I have more questions then answers.

What started this was a Nightforce scope recommended to me by a 1000yd shooter. So he hands it to me and man was it hard to get lined up to see right. I know this could probably be corrected by training to some degree but I also thought in times of stress or emergency the last thing I want is a fussy eye box. I read ACOG is king then no this scope is and on and on it goes.

So where I live my longest probable shot for deer would be maybe 200 yds. I have access to a range that goes out to maybe 300yds for target shooting. I have no idea what potential range self defense could be so what would be a good compromise scope? DPMS 308 and 223 16" barrels are what I use. I assume many of you are ex military and have had to rely on what you used and so that practical experience is what I seek. I could care less about 1" at 1000yds but I just might care about 1' at that range figuring any distance less it will be better.

As an aside here to the moderators. Searching for things here has become hard like most sites now. I use Firefox and type in combinations of words that make sense to me and get garbage results back. Like today I just quit fruitlessly searching and decided to ask for info I want and hope for the best.

One of you guys who know what you are doing and willing to spend part of a day here with me in middle Tennessee might be nice too.

 

[simonp]

Well, I know it is not super popular on the hide, folks seem to prefer more expensive glass but I would say take a good look at Trijicon LPVO's. I shoot at the ranges you are talking about and I find the glass excellent, its quick to pick up objects close in or at 1-200 yards. I cant speak to anything beyond that distance as I dont have access to it.

 

[adavis1138]

What’s your budget?

If this were me I’d be buying two optics. One red dot for close range, then something magnified for hunting/target shooting. There is no one size fits all.

 

[MAHLMAN]

I have a Holson 403C 2 MOA Green Dot for the 223. My budget is up to $2500 for the two and the less I spend the better. I have a cheap scope on the 308 right now and it is nothing to write home about. The other issue on the 308 is I don't know what the inherent accuracy is. I have good reloading capability so I can tailor rounds for it when the time comes.

 

[fdkay]

An aimpoint is a good piece of kit, but they are pricey and they are limited in what they can do.
For what you describe, two good 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO's will suit you just fine.
I would suggest the .223 for HD and short range, the .308 for mid to long range.
Check out the Primary Arms GLx series, made in the philippines for the .308

Primary Arms GLx 2.5-10x44 FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS Griffin MIL Reticle

DetailsThis rifle scope is part of the mid-tier optics line called GLx. GLx brings premium technology and materials into an approachable price range.The GLx 2.5-10x24 has a 4x magnification range, offering better close-range field of view and speed than a traditional 3-9x scope, but improved...

www.primaryarms.com

Burris RT6 for the .223:

Product Description

Product Description | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

 

[adavis1138]

An aimpoint is a good piece of kit, but they are pricey and they are limited in what they can do.
For what you describe, two good 1-6 or 1-8 LPVO's will suit you just fine.
I would suggest the .223 for HD and short range, the .308 for mid to long range.
Check out the Primary Arms GLx series, made in the philippines for the .308

Primary Arms GLx 2.5-10x44 FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS Griffin MIL Reticle

DetailsThis rifle scope is part of the mid-tier optics line called GLx. GLx brings premium technology and materials into an approachable price range.The GLx 2.5-10x24 has a 4x magnification range, offering better close-range field of view and speed than a traditional 3-9x scope, but improved...

www.primaryarms.com

Burris RT6 for the .223:

Product Description

Product Description | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

How big is your house? I’ve yet to find a hallway that needs 6x.

 

[fdkay]

How big is your house? I’ve yet to find a hallway that needs 6x.

Really? Did you read his post? He wants a multi purpose optic. If you've been living under a rock, many are moving to lpvo's. That's what 1x is for.
Unless, of course, you just like to post stupid shit.

 

[adavis1138]

Really? Did you read his post? He wants a multi purpose optic. If you've been living under a rock, many are moving to lpvo's. That's what 1x is for.
Unless, of course, you just like to post stupid shit.

Wow, holy shit.
I get the thought process but it just seems silly. I really enjoy lpvo scopes but I’d prefer to use them out of the home and at less than 1000 yards.

 

[davsco]

for any sort of defense, you prob want a true 1x (no magnification) scope/optic to give you a wider field of view, having a red dot will help with faster target acquisition.

now, if you want to reach out a little ,then you'll also want a little magnification. 3 gun matches have targets from almost contact shots out to 500-600 yards. that range sounds like it would cover your hd and hunting needs. a 1-6x scope is very popular in 3 gun and one of the most popular has been the vortex razor hd2 1-6x which i have and love. vortex and others i think now have 1-10x scopes which should let you reach out a little further.

 

[theLBC]

the budget RT-6 is close enough to 1x for comfortable both eyes open type engagement, but for a little more, i found the swampfox arrowhead to be brighter and closer to a true 1x (plus you have up to 10x). locking turrets and options for reticle (bdc or mil) make it another good option.
either leaves you with more to spend on a "long range" optic for the .308 where it will make more difference.

 

[MAHLMAN]

For inside my house I have other options besides a long gun. There is no way I am going to start blasting a 223 inside unless I am really desperate. I do have that green dot already on the 223 and it seems decent so far and quick to get on target and adequate for 100yds.

I have to admit to being interested in the VCOG 1x8 for the 308 though the number of reticle options is confusing with no clear description of why so many and exactly what each brings to the table. Plus it is under 2g which fits my budget well.

Since I am a welder machinist the idea of 7075 interests me because it is hugely stronger than 6061 which many tout mistakenly as aircraft grade. There was reference to a Nightforce 1x8 ATACR in one of the videos that demonstrated a generous eye box for the scope and more than a thousand more. From all I gather you get the ATACR reputation price tag but hardly any more glass or features.

It is surprising the number of scopes from $300 to $700 that seem to have advocates for them. I just wonder about durability. Burris pops up fairly often and within my search/buy parameters what are you guys from using Burris and why?

+1 for the RT-6, any others? Any compelling reason not to try this?

 

[theLBC]

For inside my house I have other options besides a long gun. There is no way I am going to start blasting a 223 inside unless I am really desperate. I do have that green dot already on the 223 and it seems decent so far and quick to get on target and adequate for 100yds.

I have to admit to being interested in the VCOG 1x8 for the 308 though the number of reticle options is confusing with no clear description of why so many and exactly what each brings to the table. Plus it is under 2g which fits my budget well.

Since I am a welder machinist the idea of 7075 interests me because it is hugely stronger than 6061 which many tout mistakenly as aircraft grade. There was reference to a Nightforce 1x8 ATACR in one of the videos that demonstrated a generous eye box for the scope and more than a thousand more. From all I gather you get the ATACR reputation price tag but hardly any more glass or features.

It is surprising the number of scopes from $300 to $700 that seem to have advocates for them. I just wonder about durability. Burris pops up fairly often and within my search/buy parameters what are you guys from using Burris and why?

+1 for the RT-6, any others? Any compelling reason not to try this?

the burris is strictly the budget option and mentioned because for $300, it is perfectly serviceable for short range.
i put one on my 10/22 to replace the venerable PA micro that has been on it for years. my eyes are old and i needed some help for tiny targets.
i threw in the swampfox because for $450 you have all the features...and the next tier that is significantly better is $1200+

 

[DJL2]

As soon as you throw "self defense" into the mix, you're talking about a very different class of rifle and optic than what is normally discussed here on the Hide. There are a few ways commonly accepted ways to do this:
1. LPVO - lots of cool kids are into these
2. RDS or holographic w/ magnifier - all the rage, once upon a time
3. LPVO w/ micro RDS offset - exceptionally popular for competition, increasingly popular for "social work"

Each of those has good/bad.
1. A standalone LPVO can offer you advantages in terms of form - no magnifiers or micro RDS hanging off the side of your rifle to catch on gear, brush, etc. That said, you will need to choose a "normal" magnification and adjust to anything else as desired. There are not necessarily a ton of shooting scenarios outside competition where the time required to adjust your optic's magnification is a significant issue, but it's something to consider.
2. Similar concept, much different execution and options. You can run BUIS with this setup for emergency use to co-witness through the RDS. The magnifier adds weight, bulk and complexity, and the FoV is usually poor... but, you can snap 3x (generally) of mag into place quickly and easily with practice. Will lose pretty much every time when it comes to any reasonable measure of optic performance versus a good LPVO.
3. Full on cool guy for when cost, bulk and weight are minor considerations next to the clock. To be fair, a lot of the RDS in these setups are lower profile/weight than a 3x magnifier, so it's not terrible versus just an LPVO. Obviously, the appeal here is you can setup the LPVO to whatever you want and just snap the rifle over a few degrees to use the RDS for speed work.

There's always option #4: rock them irons! ;-)

I've got a brand new Trijicon 1-4 LPVO to replace an old 1.25-4 that I beat to death over 15 years or so. 4x is more than enough for 300 yards. Trijicon isn't inexpensive, of course, but it IS in your budget. I would definitely steer you towards a better quality 1-4 or 1-6 LPVO - no sense incurring the cost of a 1-8, 1-10 for what you're discussing.

 

[Hondo64d]

I have spent some time trying to find concise info on a scope that would do what the title says. I am not unrealistic in my expectations believing that all three can be met in world class fashion at the same time. However after slogging through tons of posts and threads and having very little practical experience I find I have more questions then answers.

What started this was a Nightforce scope recommended to me by a 1000yd shooter. So he hands it to me and man was it hard to get lined up to see right. I know this could probably be corrected by training to some degree but I also thought in times of stress or emergency the last thing I want is a fussy eye box. I read ACOG is king then no this scope is and on and on it goes.

So where I live my longest probable shot for deer would be maybe 200 yds. I have access to a range that goes out to maybe 300yds for target shooting. I have no idea what potential range self defense could be so what would be a good compromise scope? DPMS 308 and 223 16" barrels are what I use. I assume many of you are ex military and have had to rely on what you used and so that practical experience is what I seek. I could care less about 1" at 1000yds but I just might care about 1' at that range figuring any distance less it will be better.

As an aside here to the moderators. Searching for things here has become hard like most sites now. I use Firefox and type in combinations of words that make sense to me and get garbage results back. Like today I just quit fruitlessly searching and decided to ask for info I want and hope for the best.

One of you guys who know what you are doing and willing to spend part of a day here with me in middle Tennessee might be nice too.

I have been using the SWFA SS 1-6HD with excellent results. Love the reticle design on 1x, a great CQB reticle and on 6x a very usable medium to long range reticle. The illumination is done well adjustments are correct, repeatable and reliable and the glass is very good. I highly recommend them.

Riflescopes, Sights, Binoculars & Optic Accessories - SWFA Outdoors

Shop for rifle scopes from top manufacturers like Burris, Bushnell, Leica, Leopold, Meopta, Nikon, Zeiss and more. Click through to find the latest deals.

www.swfa.com

John

 

[MAHLMAN]

Just want to say thanks for the replies and interest.

 

[drewthebrave]

OP: Define your use case more clearly. Hunting and Target shooting have some overlap, but what's good for "Self Defense" typically will be very different. Based on what you've described, it sounds like you have self defense covered with other firearms, and you don't have serious interest in long-range shooting. For a midrange role at <300 yards, I think a simple 1-6x or 2-10x magnified scope would give you all the performance you seek, with few drawbacks.

the burris is strictly the budget option and mentioned because for $300, it is perfectly serviceable for short range.
i put one on my 10/22 to replace the venerable PA micro that has been on it for years. my eyes are old and i needed some help for tiny targets.
i threw in the swampfox because for $450 you have all the features...and the next tier that is significantly better is $1200+

There are a lot of LPVOs in the $500+ range that are made in Japan or the Philippines that I would consider a step above Swampfox. I understand that Swampfox is good for the price, but if I was considering an optic for potential "self defense" use, I'd rather spend a bit more on one of the following known quantities. Swampfox may be making excellent scopes, but I want something with a proven history for potential defensive use (if that matters to OP).

Delta Stryker 1-6x
Steiner P4Xi 1-4x
Trijicon TR24 1-4x
Vortex Viper PST G2 1-6x
Trijicon Credo 1-4x, 1-6x
SWFA HD 1-4x, 1-6x
Burris XTR2 1-5x, 1-8x
Bushnell SMRS 1-6.5x

 

[dhoover1027]

I just got a Steiner P4Xi 1-4x24 and it’s great.
Not too heavy and built well.
Eye box and glass have me blown away.
And the eye box is the easiest to get behind I’ve ever had.

 

[HeavyAssault]

After growing up shooting with "one eye shut" the military gets you trained to shoot with a red dot style optic "both eyes open". You would be amazed when you learn to shoot with a red dot just how accurate you can be at 200yds if not 300yds.

 

[JohnCarter17]

I've got a brand new Trijicon 1-4 LPVO to replace an old 1.25-4 that I beat to death over 15 years or so. 4x is more than enough for 300 yards. Trijicon isn't inexpensive, of course, but it IS in your budget. I would definitely steer you towards a better quality 1-4 or 1-6 LPVO - no sense incurring the cost of a 1-8, 1-10 for what you're discussing.

I would have said incurring the small eyebox cost of an LPVO at 10x, better at 8x. Most of these are 24mm objective (with a few larger), so at max power you get to enjoy the experience of looking through a straw.

If I were in your shoes, and weight isn't an issue, I would want a 2-12x42, 3-9x42 or 3-15x50 (FFP) for the 308 to maximize your bench shooting. That would also suffice for hunting, or the lighter 2-12.

That leaves you with a nice 1-6 for the 223, like a Trijicon triangle post reticle. Another option that a lot would swear by is the 223 is an ACOG TA-33 worth an RDS on top.

I don't know many that think the VCOG is good at what it does for the price.

I think before you decide on scope brand you decide on scope type and weight, then look at brands. I know I just did the opposite with the ACOG/RDS recommendation, but for the 308, there are a ton of great choices in the 2-12/3-15/3-18/etc range.

 

[freemanlorenz]

For the 223, I have a Holson 403C 2 MOA Green Dot. My budget for the two is up to $2500, and the less I spend, the better. You may read this Crossbow Target Review. I'm using a cheap scope on my 308 right now, and it's nothing special. Another issue with the 308 is that I'm not sure what its inherent accuracy is. I have strong reloading skills, so when the time comes, I'll be able to customise rounds for it. You may read this Crossbow Target Review. May Be Found Your Solution Here

The Best Crossbow Target Reviews in 2023 - Advanced Crossbow

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advancedcrossbow.com