Gunsmithing Scope installation and ring lapping

[sakohunter62]

When mounting a scope on a new rifle, (for long range use) up to 1000yds, what is the correct procedure and what tools do you guy's use? is there a specific kit that one can buy, or a combination of? I want to make sure the reticle intersects the centerline of the bore, and is square to the action. I will be using a picatiney rail. Any advise is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[W8-2112]

Mark, I use a combonation of techniques to check my work and this is the order i do them in. First off I inspect to be sure the scope rings are the correct size for the scope tube and also make sure the rings are a matching set (you would be surprised on what crazy combos come across my desk). Next I fix the action in a vice and level the X and Y axis off of the action. If the optic rail mount is removable I install it and re-level making sure the optic mount base and the action are level together. I place the bottom portion of the scope rings on the optic mount where the shooters preference is in relation to eye relief. Torque the bottom scope rings per the specifications from the manufacture, if there are non then 55in lbs and be sure the scope ring is all the way forward in the rail notch. Check the level of the scope rings on both axis which should be level with the optic mount base. Next lay the scope in the rings and check for a gap indicating misalignment of the two rings, if no gap is present install top portion of scope rings and tighten screws hand tight. Utilizing the flat top of the elevation knob level scope on both axis and tighten. Recheck level and tighten a little more until desired torque specs are achieved. A small gap between the upper and lower scope rings should be present and equal all around by measuring with a dial calipers to within .003 of a differance. Lastly recheck level to be sure tightening did not move scope, if satisfied with level utilize a pedgilium line or a true straight line (while action is in a vice) adjust scope elevation up and down, the crosshairs should trace the line, if the crosshairs adjust at an angle the scope is ascue and you must readjust scope. I know this is a lengthy and tedious process but if done correctly you will have 100% confidence that your optic is mounted properly.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

buy good rings and keep a lapping bar the fuck away from them...

 

[ugsly]

I buy good rings and lap them in

 

[NXS338]

buy good rings and keep a lapping bar the fuck away from them...

I believe the lapping bar is for any inconsistencies in the picatinny mount and top of the action as well as the rings so buying "good" rings doesn't always mean perfect alignment. You have many things coming into play to for the rings to be perfectly aligned. I would not take chance of screwing up a scope by tightening it in misaligned rings. The taller the rings and the worse the misalignment can get because it is multiplied by distance from center. You can buy a good ring lapping kit from brownells and it is easy to use. You can get them with rods to check alignment.

 

[hangunnr]

I use the lapping bar regardless of whether it's inexpensive rings or high end.

High end rings are as susceptible as lesser quality to tolerance stacking which could mark an expensive optic.

30 seconds with a lapping bar and a little compound is a small price to pay to KNOW your mount / rings are good to go.

CR

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Whatever makes you feel better

 

[Graham]

High end rings are as susceptible as lesser quality to tolerance stacking which could mark an expensive optic.

30 seconds with a lapping bar and a little compound is a small price to pay to KNOW your mount / rings are good to go.

CR

High-end rings are not as susceptible to tolerance stacking because A) the tolerances are better, and B) they are designed differently.

Besides, how you describe it is not how high-end rings work: It's the tolerances of the scope tube that matters.

So, at best you're wasting your time; and at worst you are ruining your equipment.

 

[hangunnr]

High-end rings are not as susceptible to tolerance stacking because A) the tolerances are better, and B) they are designed differently.

Besides, how you describe it is not how high-end rings work: It's the tolerances of the scope tube that matters.

So, at best you're wasting your time; and at worst you are ruining your equipment.

If you're naive enough to believe that just because you paid more for something that it's going to be perfect you're in for a big let down somewhere down the road.

I'll continue to verify my shit is straight before it ever sees a scope. There won't be any surprises in my future.

CR

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

If you're naive enough to believe that just because you paid more for something that it's going to be perfect you're in for a big let down somewhere down the road.

I'll continue to verify my shit is straight before it ever sees a scope. There won't be any surprises in my future.

CR

That's my reputation around here: Naive..... You can ask anyone.?

More to the point: Surprise! If you are lapping to make sure that something is straight you're doing it wrong.

 

[Rthur]

I think what Graham is getting at is if you need to lap your rings you are fixing the wrong part. This would indicate that the rail/action is the problem and should be addressed. Lapping the rings is treating the symptoms not the cure.


R

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

...And lapping the rings won't make a curved surface straight, nor will it make the scope sit straight on a curved base.

Heck, it's not even the reason why people suggest lapping rings in the first place.

 

[hangunnr]

Like I said in my first post, 30 seconds with a lapping bar will let you know if your gear is straight. I never stated it was a fix for alignment problems. The marks left will show you exactly where the scope tube is going to sit and give you the indicator of what corrective measures need to be taken, if any.

......and I'll stand by my statement that if you believe just because you buy some high dollar swag that it'll be perfect every time that you are in fact naive.

CR

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

Like I said in my first post, 30 seconds with a lapping bar will let you know if your gear is straight. I never stated it was a fix for alignment problems. The marks left will show you exactly where the scope tube is going to sit and give you the indicator of what corrective measures need to be taken, if any.

The scope tube will perform the same function at no additional cost... and with a time savings as well.

Not to mention that the benefit of using the scope tube instead of a lapping bar is that it will provide the clue as to whether lapping is necessary.

Clearly, you are still giving advice without understanding the process.

 

[hangunnr]

I use my scopes for sighting devices not ring alignment tools. I know my scope is going to sit square well before it gets mounted.

The imagined extra time or the small expense of a lapping bar is of little concern to me.

Clearly, you're unable to accept that there could be a method other than the one you use to arrive at the exact same conclusion.

CR

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

I use my scopes for sighting devices not ring alignment tools. I know my scope is going to sit square well before it gets mounted.

The imagined extra time or the small expense of a lapping bar is of little concern to me.

Clearly, you're unable to accept that there could be a method other than the one you use to arrive at the exact same conclusion.

CR

Again, you're not tracking: Whether it sits square is not the issue, because that is neither a reason for lapping not is it cured by lapping.

 

[hangunnr]

Again we'll refer back to my original post seeing as reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

"30 seconds with a lapping bar and a little compound is a small price to pay to KNOW your mount / rings are good to go."

If you notice I used the word mount. With the rings secured to the mount or rail if you prefer a lapping bar will show you exactly the same thing your scope will for alignment. With a little compound on the bar it will show you exactly where contact is and what direction things have to go for correction if it's needed. If your rail isn't true it will show in the wear pattern in the rings. Won't take more than a few passes back and forth to prove that you're either good to go or the mount system needs more attention.

What I have tracked is that you've offered nothing to the OP but condemning my method.

Your turn...

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

Again we'll refer back to my original post seeing as reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

"30 seconds with a lapping bar and a little compound is a small price to pay to KNOW your mount / rings are good to go."

Except that lapping is not a method by which to tell that your mount and rings are 'good to go'.

And you are not using the scope solely to check alignment of the rings, because lapping is not a cure for that.

Which makes it about a lack of comprehension, not a lack of reading comprehension.

 

[hangunnr]

Except that lapping is not a method by which to tell that your mount and rings are 'good to go'.

And you are not using the scope solely to check alignment of the rings, because lapping is not a cure for that.

Which makes it about a lack of comprehension, not a lack of reading comprehension.

My method as described above will absolutely tell you if your mount and rings are good to go or if they require more attention. 20 yrs of mounting scopes without a marked tube is all the proof I need.

Once again I never said lapping is a "cure" only a way to verify alignment.

I'll stick with my assessment of your lack of reading comprehension.

 

[19Scout77]

Good to know Indiana is chock full of blemish free weavers and redfields...

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

Good to know Indiana is chock full of blemish free weavers and redfields...

Well, how can anyone possibly argue against 20 years of experience, especially when it agrees with its own assessments.

 

[NXS338]

The scope tube will perform the same function at no additional cost... and with a time savings as well.

Not to mention that the benefit of using the scope tube instead of a lapping bar is that it will provide the clue as to whether lapping is necessary.

Clearly, you are still giving advice without understanding the process.

Ok Graham Im curious here, so when would you say lapping is necessary? My question is if you use the scope and set it in the rings and see that it is not sitting perfectly flat in the rings is this when you would lap? Or would you try to check the base or the action? If it was the action that was a touch out would you machine that or then lap the rings? Im not saying your wrong here Im simply trying to learn. I dont use a lapping bar to check rings but i do use 2 independent rods that are an exact diameter and when pushed together tell you the alignment is good or bad. If the are not straight I then lap the rings a bit and check again until they are straight. Am I doing this wrong or missing something here?

 

[downlow]

If you're naive enough to believe that just because you paid more for something that it's going to be perfect you're in for a big let down somewhere down the road.

I'll continue to verify my shit is straight before it ever sees a scope. There won't be any surprises in my future.

CR

Agreed here. Line rings up perfectly with a straight lapping bar, start lapping, and see how phucked up some "high end" rings are, and you'll change your mind. If you don't...you have issues.

 

[NXS338]

I agree with this, I have seen this myself. The high end ones are much better for sure as Ive seen some of the less expensive (cheap) ones that were rediculous bad. I want to make sure Im not missing something here, I know it may not be the rings but it seems that is the logical thing to fix.

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

Agreed here. Line rings up perfectly with a straight lapping bar, start lapping, and see how phucked up some "high end" rings are, and you'll change your mind. If you don't...you have issues.

There's no point in using a lapping bar to line up rings. Because If your high end rings don't line up, it's not the rings. And if you lap, that won't fix it.

If a scope tube is more than two thou bigger at one end than the other I can see a benefit to lapping one ring.

Otherwise you need a better mounting system.

 

[NXS338]

Graham, are you saying that when you mount a 1 piece base and a set of rings on a regular action like a Remington and use high end stuff they are always straight and square with each other?

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

Graham, are you saying that when you mount a 1 piece base and a set of rings on a regular action like a Remington and use high end stuff they are always straight and square with each other?

Always and never are semantic traps.

I'm saying that lapping is not necessary, except in very few cases when measurements taken indicate that there is a reason for the benefit available by lapping.

 

[NXS338]

I am simply trying to learn here, I wasnt trying to be a smartass.

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

I've never lapped a set of quality rings, and I've never marred a scope by not doing it.

If the bottom ring halves bind on the scope tube there's something wrong. Don't use them. That is, unless the scope tube itself measures-out to be out of spec. In that case, maybe lap the bottom half of that one ring.

If tightening the ring base screws splays the ring and causes the scope to sit up and give-up contact with the base of the ring, don't use those rings.

On good rings, the ring top-halves do not meet flush with the ring bottom halves. They are designed to hold the scope by virtue of the design, not by high pressure. So they don't need to be lapped.

 

[NXS338]

I am obviously doing something wrong, I will rethink the way I have been doing it.

 

[Graham]

Scope installation and ring lapping

Of course, if you are mounting $15 aluminum pieces of garbage on two-piece bases on uncle Elmo's factory deerslayer, then all bets are off: Any way you can get that shit to line-up and hold together the more power to ya'.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Never lapped a set either and never had an issue on any of my optics. I use good gear but simply laying the scope into the rings and rolling it and sliding it fore and aft tell me how it fits and if my rings are in alignment. I would rather bed an out
of spec rail/or receiver than lap the rings to correct an alignment issue.

 

[geoff3]

If I buy a good set of rings and base I should be good as long as I install them the right way ,geoff3

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

buy good rings and keep a lapping bar the fuck away from them...

EXACTLY!!!

I use the lapping bar regardless of whether it's inexpensive rings or high end.

High end rings are as susceptible as lesser quality to tolerance stacking which could mark an expensive optic.

30 seconds with a lapping bar and a little compound is a small price to pay to KNOW your mount / rings are good to go.

CR

Wrong. I have used high quality rings without lapping and high quality rings with lapping. The lapping caused issues. Lapping is bad.

High-end rings are not as susceptible to tolerance stacking because A) the tolerances are better, and B) they are designed differently.

Besides, how you describe it is not how high-end rings work: It's the tolerances of the scope tube that matters.

So, at best you're wasting your time; and at worst you are ruining your equipment.

Agreed 100%. Listen to the people with experience kids, you'll be happier.

I think what Graham is getting at is if you need to lap your rings you are fixing the wrong part. This would indicate that the rail/action is the problem and should be addressed. Lapping the rings is treating the symptoms not the cure.


R

1,000% right on the money. Well put.

If I buy a good set of rings and base I should be good as long as I install them the right way ,geoff3

Again, right in there.

Removing material from rings really just covers up a bigger problem. With picatinny rail systems, a lot of the problems from the old dovetail and weaver base systems were alleviated. Now its using careful step by step measures to ensure that the user is mounting the scope correctly.

Here is a helpful video from a gentleman you may have heard of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCrUbeROVYY

 

[PCR]

buy good rings and keep a lapping bar the fuck away from them...

Laughed when I read this because it's exactly what I thought after ready the OP!