Rifle Scopes Scope Mounting/Eye Relief

[Vodoun daVinci]

I'm a total noob to the whole Precision Rifle thing having become addicted to punching paper at longer and longer ranges while sighting in an RD on my AR15. So I researched and started building my first gun using a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 Creedmoor and adding stuff as I gain experience and accumulate the funds. I mounted a Vortex Crossfire II 6-24X50 AO and set it up by closing my eyes and mounting the rifle to my shoulder and then opening my eyes to see my sight picture. Kept sliding the scope back and adjusting ring position until it was perfect when the rifle is mounted with proper cheek weld. It shoots really well at 100 - 300 yards and when the weather clears again I'll push the range. But I noticed that my scope is pushed *way* forward on the gun....seemingly unnaturally so compared
to pix I have seen.



Any advice on this? Is there any issues that you guys can think of that might present themselves in the future with having the optic mounted this far forward on the gun? When I add a tripod and go prone will I need a different cheek weld or position myself further back on the gun and need to slide the optic back?

Thanks in advance!

VooDoo

 

[spife7980]

It’s a bit uncouth but if that’s how you’re comfortable on the gun then it is what it is. I’d strain my neck trying to get that far forward but we’re all built differently. You set it up with the scope on max power? And when you zoom out it remains in a good position for you? If so and you’re maintain good fundamentals of marksmanship then rock on

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Yup, I'm pretty sure I adjusted at full magnification *but* now I'm second guessing myself. It's *really* comfortable and comes up fast when the gun is mounted naturally to my shoulder but I'm gonna double check it again tonight and make sure I'm checking it at 24X.

Uncouth? LOL...that would be typically me.

VooDoo

 

[Patty]

The Savage 10 FCP is a tack driver for the money, but like all things in precision rifle, cost comes at a sacrifice. What is likely happening is that the stocks design prohibits a proper cheek weld, so to lower your head enough to see through the glass you are extending your neck forward. Replace the stock with a proper long range option and re adjust. Or at the very minimum buy one of those adjustable Kydex cheek pieces so you can get a proper comb height.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Very soon this barrel and action is gonna get dropped into an MDT LSS-XL Gen2 chassis with a better stock option....I kinda knew that the Accustock was a weak link in choosing this rifle as a platform and intended to toss the stock when I move forward. It never occurred to me that this stock might force me into an unnatural position to get a proper cheek weld and sight picture.

Looks like the new chassis is getting moved forward on the priority list. Great advice! Thank You!

VooDoo

 

[henschman]

You are on the right track, but you definitely do need to address the cheek height issue or you'll never get proper head position. You need to build up the comb (pipe insulation foam attached with vet wrap is good) and do your same test, only when you close your eyes, completely relax your neck and let the full weight of your head rest on the stock on your cheekbone. If you are below the eye box when you open your eyes, you need to add more height to the comb. Keep doing this until you have a perfect sight picture when you open your eyes. You want to have your neck fully extended (i.e. no "slack" in it), but not straining or using muscle to force it forward.

 

[Patty]

We should add that you should be able to be square to your rifle with your shoulders, shouldn’t have to bring one shoulder forward to allow more forward head placement.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Awesome advice and I'm taking it. Reworking cheek weld mechanics and natural/intuitive mounting of the rifle without stretching my neck or altering my natural and relaxed head position.

I'll post pix soon but wanted to thank folks for imparting information that is really helping me learn and solve.

Not wanting to cobble up my stock but clearly I need another 1.5" of comb rise and to move the scope back even more. I'm thinking I need a much better stock right now. Film at 11.

VooDoo

 

[christopher.dow]

Awesome advice and I'm taking it. Reworking cheek weld mechanics and natural/intuitive mounting of the rifle without stretching my neck or altering my natural and relaxed head position.

I'll post pix soon but wanted to thank folks for imparting information that is really helping me learn and solve.

Not wanting to cobble up my stock but clearly I need another 1.5" of comb rise and to move the scope back even more. I'm thinking I need a much better stock right now. Film at 11.

VooDoo

Hi VooDoo,

I put that same scope on my 308 gas gun. I found (and others noted) that the eye relief was super critical, and had to mounted it similarly. I think you’re on the right path to go for the LSS-XL.


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[Vodoun daVinci]

I spent a lot of time the last few days evaluating proper head placement and getting intuitive/relaxed sight picture. This is a very subjective thing and if I "worked" at it I lost perspective in a few minutes. Basically I wanted a neutral/relaxed head and neck position that was instantaneous and simple while mounting the rifle. I closed my eyes and mounted the rifle and then relaxed to the point I damn near fell asleep with a good cheek weld and a relaxed feel on the gun. Then opened my eyes and adjusted the optics until it yielded a usable sight picture without shadows or rings. This is where we ended up:

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/shooting\/filedata\/fetch?filedataid=84987&type=thumb"}[/IMG2][IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/shooting\/core\/image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP\/\/\/wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw=="}[/IMG2]​

I need to raise the comb about 1/2" to make it perfect but it'll do for no until I get it out and put rounds thru it. When the savage rebate gets here it gets an Atlas Bipod and hopefully the weather will be warm enough to get her out and shoot. But it's a lot less uncouth now, yes? And I'm not extending/craning my neck to see the scope picture. It comes up naturally with very little positional change. I could literally sleep with this rifle mounted now.

VooDoo

 

[Shane431]

Get a Triad Tactical stock pack. That will fix the problems and I guarantee you’ll use it again even if you update your current stock.

 

[BobinNC]

For a cheap and quick raise the comb I use this cut to length:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Frost-King-0-75-in-x-6-ft-Foam-Plumbing-Tubular-Pipe-Insulation/3130471

Due to compress-ability I'd use 3/4" thick foam when I want to raise the comb 1/2". I cover the Pipe insulation with one of these.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/922794/midwayusa-buttstock-rifle-ammunition-carrier-black

The Triad stock pack is the 1st class solution. My 2nd Class solution costs under $10.00 plus shipping.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Any idea if that Midway unit is ambidextrous or if they make a lefty model? I shoot a right handed action left handed because of eye dominance.

Gonna order an Atlas BT10 from Midway anyway and adding another $5 on it is a no brainer.

VooDoo

 

[eicas]

Another option is sheet foam from Hobby Lobby. It comes in numerous colors (including flat black) and is very dense and closed cell. It’s also $1.29 for a 14”x18” sheet. The suff comes in various thicknesses. The thickest is about 1/4”. Cut to sheape and use contact cement. You can layer using the same method. I used two pieces and might add a third or add a thinned piece. It’s sandable with wet/dry paper and using 800 or 1200 grit the finshed edges look factory. I just used this method to build up the cheek piece on my KRG Bravo. I’d post a pic, but can’t here for some reason. I had previously put a piece of this on a Karsten rest for comfort purposes. Its held up about 8 months now and still looks new. Shoot me a PM if you want and I can send you pics....or someone explain how I can post using postimage...lol

 

[308pirate]

When you say that you threw the rifle up to your shoulder with eyes closed then adjusted the scope eye relief to suit, did you do what while standing?

I seriously doubt (unless your physique is extremely odd) that you can shoot that rifle prone and not be all contorted and out of square with the rifle.

I get that we're all built differently but those are matters of details, not huge differences. There's a reason most scopes don't look like yours when mounted.

You should try getting prone straight behind the rifle with your shoulders squared to the gun, with your eyes closed, then open them and let us know if you can use that scope mounted as it is.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

We'll see.

VooDoo

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I seriously doubt (unless your physique is extremely odd) that you can shoot that rifle prone and not be all contorted and out of square with the rifle.

I sighted the rifle while prone today after reading and researching "proper" shooting from prone. I didn't have any problem mounting the gun and picking up targets instantly - my scope pix is excellent but I do have to raise my head just a little due to low comb height. It's not painful nor contorted...just a little less than optimal.

I'm wondering if you can expand on your concept that my scope mount is impossible to shoot from prone unless I'm built unlike most other shooters? I'm 6'2" and about 185 fairly lean and slightly muscular for a 62 YO. I have no problem squaring to the gun prone and sighting easily without undo stress and strain.

Then again I'm a newbie self admitted. Can you tell me exactly what it is about my scope mount or rifle config. that makes you think it's impossible? As a learning point please.

And thank you in advance!

VooDoo

 

[B-P-UU]

If you could have someone take a few pics while you're behind the scope in the prone position that would be helpful..

unless you have an extremely long neck, as shown would be extremely unconventional.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

In the first pix or the amended/adjusted pix? I'll try and get mama to snap a pix or two this week - she gets a little weird about taking pictures of me with guns. Times being what they are and all....Obviously I'm missing something obvious like that the scope mounting absolutely precludes any possibility of mounting this rifle "properly" and getting a decent sight pix without being completely off balance or contorted which I'm not feeling or experiencing.
Maybe those more experienced can define what it is about the mount (too far forward - too far back - to high - too low) in definitive terms that makes this impossible. Cause I'm not experiencing that.

I'll get to the pix. Standby please.

And Thank You.

VooDoo